Playing in the Rain!

[scalpy]

Basschat's collective knowledge/experience here would be appreciated. One of the acts I play for has been booked for a few small festivals this summer, including one on Sunday. I've just checked the forecast and it ain't good! If it sheds it down on a typical small festival stage, covered but not a marquee type situation, am I safe and is my bass ok to get wet? This gig will be a kit share, and it sounds like they (the festival organisers) know what they're doing, but I don't use a wireless and even my limited understanding of this electric stuff extends don't mix with water. Less importantly, but still a concern is that I don't want my beloved bass getting trashed for an hours set should the heavens open. I've seen bands play in the rain, Pink Floyd at Knebworth 90 springs to mind but I wonder how they got away with it. Tips and advice are most welcome.

[BILL POSTERS]

Did one last summer where the truck that was going to be the stage got stuck so the organisers put up about 6 cheapo gazeebos. Had to make sure I stood directly under one cos all the joins leaked and rain was pissin in. But the punters were still dancing in the rain and the mud.

Sometimes you just have to get on with it. Wipe yer bass with a towel afterwards and put it somwhere dry when you get home.
Be British about it, stop worrying and enjoy it. Wheres your Dunkirk spirit .?..

[crez5150]

Wireless system?

[lurksalot]

We played a wedding last year in a marquee and it hammered down , the genny got soaked , and I recall some of the PA and cabling being very wet , but while we were on we didn't give a second thought . Be safe though , we may have been really lucky .

[icastle]

I've done loads of these over the years.

They're generally OK but I always take a cheap tarpaulin and a roll of gaffa tape along with me just in case I need to provide a bit of a makeshift shelter within the stage area.

A couple of short lengths of 3x1 might come in handy to keep your cab out of any puddles that might be about.

If you're not using a wireless system then I'd strongly suggest you buy or borrow one for the day.

[BobVbass]

Absolutely get a wireless and an rcb for your amp as well, while you're at it a mains filter will be a good idea as well if they're running from a generator. And a hat

Edited May 21, 2013 by bob_pickard

[police squad]

[quote name='bob_pickard' timestamp='1369113024' post='2084894']
And a hat
[/quote] +1

[JTUK]

Do it properly or not at all..

[chris_b]

I don’t do wet!!

If I turned up for a gig and there was inadequate protection from rain I wouldn't play.

[danthevan]

if your bass gets wet or even slightly damn from moisture in the air then leave it out of it's case at home for a few days to dry properly.
I made the mistake of just wiping down and putting it in the case only to find 2 weeks later when i got it out, rusty screws on the bridge

[police squad]

[quote name='danthevan' timestamp='1369134851' post='2085168']
if your bass gets wet or even slightly damn from moisture in the air then leave it out of it's case at home for a few days to dry properly.
I made the mistake of just wiping down and putting it in the case only to find 2 weeks later when i got it out, rusty screws on the bridge
[/quote]

I sweat so much everything goes rusty. wipe it down? not on your nelly. I don't need to adjust the bridge saddles anyway )

[BILL POSTERS]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1369121243' post='2084944']
Do it properly or not at all..
[/quote]

Describe how to do it properly.

You turn up, punters are standing in the rain waiting...

Then what ?

[fumps]

[quote name='BILL POSTERS' timestamp='1369140343' post='2085279']
Describe how to do it properly.

You turn up, punters are standing in the rain waiting...

Then what ?
[/quote]
Remember
glasses on eyes
Words out of mouth
Breathe
dont drool
Make sure no one can see your chuds
No fire truck impressions yet.........take your time

And were off !

Edited May 21, 2013 by fumps

[spacey]

Circuit breakers wont help.
The stage needs it's own earthing point as close to the stage as humanly possible.
The Rule of thumb is Every 10 meters of wire away from the earthing point and the risk of electrocution trebles.
If the earthing point is at the other end of the lead which is 50+ meters away and round the pubs mains board to the cold water pipe.
You are as good as dead if any type of rain or short causes problems
Any rcd you use can only measure leakage to a bonded earth point so wont trip if the path is via you direct to earth.
A moderately competent electrician can install an earth point at the stage rigged in to the power supply stage end , or use a generator that is earthed.

If the only source is a very long extension lead with the earthing point at the other end then if there is any, even remote chance of damp or rain I would suggest you do not play.

These things do tend to be make do and hope for the best.

Fatalities are not uncommon when no direct earthing point exists, electricity will take the shortest route to earth and if that is via you as opposed to down the other end of a long extension then it will, it is physics and many a person has won a darwin award from 240v 30 amp ring mains.

If it is not a generator installed by a compliant person I would insist on an electrician certifying the power supply .
You dont get a second chance with this sh*t !

Edited May 21, 2013 by spacey

[BobVbass]

[quote][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]electricity will take the shortest route to earth and if that is via you as opposed to down the other end of a long extension then it will,[/font][/color][/quote]

True but that's why everyone is suggesting wireless systems - you have to be nuts to plug directly in...

[chris_b]

[quote name='spacey' timestamp='1369144227' post='2085379']
....You dont get a second chance with this sh*t !....
[/quote]

+1

[Truckstop]

I once played a festival outdoors when it rained.

I modified a mic stand to hold an umbrella over my rig and we just shielded the power points as sensibly as we could. Luckily it wasn't what I'd call "bad weather", it was just a few showers. But still made sure I used a wireless. I'm not daft!

Truckstop

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='spacey' timestamp='1369144227' post='2085379']

Any rcd you use can only measure leakage to a bonded earth point so wont trip if the path is via you direct to earth.
[/quote]

As I understand it an RCD measures the difference between the current in the live and the current in the neutral. Any difference greater than an amount (generally 30mA) will cause it to trip. That difference might be current going through you to ground. It doesn't measure the current going to ground directly.

What an RCD won't protect you against is if you connect yourself between live and neutral (with no leakage to earth) cause you'll just look like a small extra load.

[BILL POSTERS]

[quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1369146099' post='2085414']
As I understand it an RCD measures the difference between the current in the live and the current in the neutral. Any difference greater than an amount (generally 30mA) will cause it to trip. That difference might be current going through you to ground. It doesn't measure the current going to ground directly.

What an RCD won't protect you against is if you connect yourself between live and neutral (with no leakage to earth) cause you'll just look like a small extra load.
[/quote]

This.

[rogerstodge]

[quote name='crez5150' timestamp='1369082208' post='2084707']
Wireless system?
[/quote]yup and a cheapo bass

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='spacey' timestamp='1369144227' post='2085379']
Circuit breakers wont help.
The stage needs it's own earthing point as close to the stage as humanly possible.
The Rule of thumb is Every 10 meters of wire away from the earthing point and the risk of electrocution trebles.
If the earthing point is at the other end of the lead which is 50+ meters away and round the pubs mains board to the cold water pipe.
You are as good as dead if any type of rain or short causes problems
[b]Any rcd you use can only measure leakage to a bonded earth point so wont trip if the path is via you direct to earth.[/b]
A moderately competent electrician can install an earth point at the stage rigged in to the power supply stage end , or use a generator that is earthed.

If the only source is a very long extension lead with the earthing point at the other end then if there is any, even remote chance of damp or rain I would suggest you do not play.

These things do tend to be make do and hope for the best.

Fatalities are not uncommon when no direct earthing point exists, electricity will take the shortest route to earth and if that is via you as opposed to down the other end of a long extension then it will, it is physics and many a person has won a darwin award from 240v 30 amp ring mains.

If it is not a generator installed by a compliant person I would insist on an electrician certifying the power supply .
You dont get a second chance with this sh*t !
[/quote]
This is totally false, I dont want to get into another basschat electrical debate but its not true at all, any leakage (probably 30mA in this case) anywhere other than back through the RCD unit will result in a trip and should be within 200ms but will normally be less than that, worst I have seen was about 57ms. Unless you know what you are doing adding earth stakes etc can make things worse, even a poor TNC-S supply with up to 3 extension reels will give a few Ohms on an earth loop test, 50-100 maybe worst case with enough voltage left to actually power anything which is very poor really, yet a decent stake would be 200+ at best and more like 500+ in a field miles from anywhere

Edited May 21, 2013 by stingrayPete1977

[mcnach]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1369133454' post='2085140']
I don’t do wet!!

If I turned up for a gig and there was inadequate protection from rain I wouldn't play.
[/quote]


I'd be inclined to do the same.
If the stage does not offer suitable protection from the rain, I would not do it. I'm not going to risk my gear.
A wireless is great too, for extra safety. In fact it was one of the reasons I bought one, after seeing the wiring in some bars I played

[mcnach]

[quote name='BILL POSTERS' timestamp='1369140343' post='2085279']
Describe how to do it properly.

You turn up, punters are standing in the rain waiting...

Then what ?
[/quote]


Then... bye bye and it's the promoter's problem for not providing a suitable installation.
If it happens to you in Madrid in August... perhaps you just had bad luck. If you organise an outdoor event in Britain, anytime of the year, you have to think about the possibility of rain, come on!

[flyfisher]

[quote name='spacey' timestamp='1369144227' post='2085379']
Any rcd you use can only measure leakage to a bonded earth point so wont trip if the path is via you direct to earth.
[/quote]

Are you sure about that? So how can they provide any protection for double-insulated appliances that don't require and earth connection . . . like electric lawnmowers/strimmers for example?

My understanding is that RCDs monitor the current flow ONLY within the live and neutral wires. In normal and safe operation, ALL the current flowing within the live conductor should be equal to the current flowing in the neutral conductor. If this is NOT the case then there must be current flowing somewhere else, which IMPLIES a fault condition and the RCD will trip.


Edit: Oops - posted before reading StingrayPete's post saying basically the same thing.

Edited May 21, 2013 by flyfisher

[flyfisher]

[quote name='scalpy' timestamp='1369072626' post='2084579']
I've seen bands play in the rain, Pink Floyd at Knebworth 90 springs to mind but I wonder how they got away with it.
[/quote]

I assumed the actual stage was dry . . . . but I remember it well and didn't the rain do a good job of enhancing the lightshow!