Posting images of Rickenbacker copies

[charic]

[quote name='bob_pickard' timestamp='1369210580' post='2086206']
Start a poll and ask I suppose would be the solution -

Options

Carry on as suggested by Rickenbacker (i.e no copies photos etc)
Stop all RB like photos from the site
Stop all RB content from the site
[/quote]

There would be more options that I can think of at current

Stop all RB content on the site
Stop all RB like sales on the site
Stop all RB copy content on the site
Stop all RB like photos in sales on the site
Stop all RB copy photos on the site
Stop all RB copy photos in sales on the site (very high maintenance with this)


Unfortunately a lot of thought will have to go into this in the long run. We're currently deciding how we are going to decide though

[Low End Bee]

There's a pub near me that isn't allowed to sell a certain brand of beer by their brewery. However if you ask for a 'pint of special' you will get that very beer from an unmarked tap.
If you advertise a 'special bass' you could always be PM'd for pics....

[BobVbass]

[quote][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]There would be more options that I can think of at current[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Stop all RB content on the site[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Stop all RB like sales on the site[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Stop all RB copy content on the site[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Stop all RB like photos in sales on the site[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Stop all RB copy photos on the site[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Stop all RB copy photos in sales on the site (very high maintenance with this)[/font][/color][/quote]

yes fair comment -

what's clear is that it's taking a large amount of effort on the part of the mods and admins that could be well spent on something productive so a better solution is needed

[Happy Jack]

Not wishing to stir the pot too vigorously, but has anyone (in authority at Basschat) actually checked out what these scary legal costs might amount to?

[u][b]NOT [/b][/u]being a lawyer myself, but having some knowledge of the subject, I cannot for the life of me see how an American company could successfully sue a British website for alleged copyright infringements under US law, for simply allowing mention of the existence of copies of the design.

I suspect quite strongly that previous comments (above) regarding bullying tactics and bluff reach the very heart & soul of John Hall's management style. I'm also uncomfortable with the double standards on display, where there is no shortage of Basschatters (me included) who have criticised eBay for example for being a tool of Hall's, yet here we are now on Basschat falling further and further into line with his unreasonable (IMHO) demands.

Whether or not one chooses to recognise his "right" to act like this, or chooses to respect his right to manage his own company as he sees fit, we still have a collective right to say "[i][b]Come over here if you're hard enough[/b][/i]".

Basschat is now significantly better funded than it was a few months ago, and the suggestion has been made before (by me amongst others) that a 'fighting fund' could be created if it proved necessary. I also love the idea of having the site sponsored by a Ric copyist.

A 5-minute chat with a decent lawyer is not going to produce a bill (unless you're really stupid) but it might inject a dose of reality into exactly what threat really exists.

[charic]

I do believe a few legal type conversations have been had on the subject but I know very little about it.

Comparing ebay to basschat is maybe a little much though, ebay are currently worth £71Bn

[Happy Jack]

Yes, but at least we pay our taxes ...

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1369212096' post='2086232']
Yes, but at least we pay our taxes ...
[/quote]



Did this get clarified that we can't post pics of them even if they're not for sale? Cos I think my faker is in the background of some of my cat pics somewhere, or at least the back of the headstock might be...

[Gust0o]

We did have legal advice when John Hall first got in touch, just to clarify - Kiwi would be the person to speak to in respect of that.

To clarify a comment above, the issue only relates [b]items for sale or hire[/b] - meaning Rickenfaker porn would be permissible.

I like the poll idea. Again, would be worth coordinating with Kiwi or Ped - as the owners/admins, requests would need to go through them.

[Gust0o]

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1369213115' post='2086247']


Did this get clarified that we can't post pics of them even if they're not for sale? Cos I think my faker is in the background of some of my cat pics somewhere, or at least the back of the headstock might be...
[/quote]

Great minds think alike! Sorry, was posting as you were - yes, you can post pics as long as the item is not for sale or hire.

[Hamster]

There is a difference between a 'registered design', 'copyright' and 'patent.' JH has registered the designs in the EU, and we are under EU legislation which generally makes it illegal to copy, reproduce etc or expose for sale or hire. I therefore cannot see how the registered design is infringed upon if photographs are displayed in a context where they are not being exposed for sale or hire.

It may be much easier to make Basschat a totally 'Rickenbacker Free Zone' so the admins don't get any more bullish emails and live under constant threat of legal action.

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='Gust0o' timestamp='1369213194' post='2086249']
Great minds think alike! Sorry, was posting as you were - yes, you can post pics as long as the item is not for sale or hire.
[/quote]

Phew, didn't want to make you guys trawl all the cat pictures for rickyalikes....



was that provocative? I am never selling it.

[Hamster]

If we decide to allow Rickenbacker content, it might be wise to mark every for sale thread title along this kind of template:

For Sale: Fender Jazz Bass (NOT A RICKENBACKER COPY)

That way we are making our position very clear - and any Google search on our website would show that we are not selling a RICKENBACKER COPY and there would not be any confusion or waste of time by anyone.

[Happy Jack]

How much do you want? Is it any good for metal?

[MiltyG565]

Hang on, an American is threatening to sue? Stop the presses! I never thought I would see the day when an American would litigate!

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1369211637' post='2086224']
Not wishing to stir the pot too vigorously, but has anyone (in authority at Basschat) actually checked out what these scary legal costs might amount to?

[u][b]NOT [/b][/u]being a lawyer myself, but having some knowledge of the subject, I cannot for the life of me see how an American company could successfully sue a British website for alleged copyright infringements under US law, for simply allowing mention of the existence of copies of the design.

I suspect quite strongly that previous comments (above) regarding bullying tactics and bluff reach the very heart & soul of John Hall's management style. I'm also uncomfortable with the double standards on display, where there is no shortage of Basschatters (me included) who have criticised eBay for example for being a tool of Hall's, yet here we are now on Basschat falling further and further into line with his unreasonable (IMHO) demands.

Whether or not one chooses to recognise his "right" to act like this, or chooses to respect his right to manage his own company as he sees fit, we still have a collective right to say "[i][b]Come over here if you're hard enough[/b][/i]".

Basschat is now significantly better funded than it was a few months ago, and the suggestion has been made before (by me amongst others) that a 'fighting fund' could be created if it proved necessary. I also love the idea of having the site sponsored by a Ric copyist.

A 5-minute chat with a decent lawyer is not going to produce a bill (unless you're really stupid) but it might inject a dose of reality into exactly what threat really exists.
[/quote]

The problem is, how British a web site is Basschat?

Which company was used for the domain name registration? Where are the servers which host Basschat located? Who owns the company that does the hosting? What about the actual forum software?

If any of the above have US ties, then Rickenbacker don't actually have to "come over here". They simply put pressure on a US weak point and then there's no longer any Basschat.

Personally I think a blanket ban on any mention or images of Rickenbacker instruments be they fake or allegedly "real" is the safest route to go.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='Hamster' timestamp='1369213927' post='2086261']
If we decide to allow Rickenbacker content, it might be wise to mark every for sale thread title along this kind of template:

For Sale: Fender Jazz Bass (NOT A RICKENBACKER COPY)

That way we are making our position very clear - and any Google search on our website would show that we are not selling a RICKENBACKER COPY and there would not be any confusion or waste of time by anyone.
[/quote]

I rather like this suggestion. Any trawl of t'web would bring up such posts, and anyone interested in checking that the site was, indeed, rigourously applying the prescribed directives, would be reassured that each and every 'For Sale or Hire' posting was indeed in conformity. The amount of TIM expended on this verification would be doubtless worthwhile for any party interested enough in the protection of their registered designs and such, and would bring them much comfort. I vote in favour, as a goodwill gesture. Anyone else willing to help out in this way..?

[Dad3353]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1369214671' post='2086280']...a blanket ban on any mention or images of Rickenbacker instruments be they fake or allegedly "real" is the safest route to go.
[/quote]

Arguably the 'safest' route, indeed, but a tad harsh on the poor sods here that have these basses, or their imitations. Banning any mention would curtail some of the very reason for BC's existence, as a forum for all bassists. Unfortunate, I think, to deprive all of us the benefits of their contributions, and heartless to deprive them when they are not in any way guilty of any wrong-doing.
On the other hand, I think it quite fair to continue to reproach these tactics, whilst not necessarilly criticising the product itself. The negative effect this will have on any perception of this manufacturer will then be entirely of his/her making, leaving all of us free to have and hold our own opinions.
The debate is not over, it seems..?

[Gust0o]

Unfortunate, absolutely - but such is how John Hall is seemingly wishing to run the brand he inherited, that he leaves people with little option and little overt sympathy, with both the content and manner of his communications.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='Hamster' timestamp='1369213927' post='2086261']
If we decide to allow Rickenbacker content, it might be wise to mark every for sale thread title along this kind of template:

For Sale: Fender Jazz Bass (NOT A RICKENBACKER COPY)

That way we are making our position very clear - and any Google search on our website would show that we are not selling a RICKENBACKER COPY and there would not be any confusion or waste of time by anyone.
[/quote]

I like your thinking....

[Wolverinebass]

[quote name='Hamster' timestamp='1369213528' post='2086253']
It may be much easier to make Basschat a totally 'Rickenbacker Free Zone' so the admins don't get any more[i] bullsh1t[/i] emails and live under constant threat of legal action.
[/quote]

Fixed it for you my dear boy.

On a serious level though, enough is enough. I agree with Happy Jack in terms of saying "...'moan then!!" (said with my own Scottish accent). I'm sick and tired of this bloke threatening everyone and anyone. It's become beyond silly. How many more things are going to get sued on? Don't DiMarzio offer replacement pickups as well? Why not copyright maple wooded basses? That's only ever been used by them. Obviously. How ridiculous can we go here? How about the black jetglo colour or even the specific pots for volume and tone? STOP. IT. Every time he does this he's making people refuse to buy his brand.

The reality will probably be more along the lines of what BRX has said about going after the weakest point and all that. Erase every single post/thread/piece of content on this site that relates to his infernal brand. Leave only the porn threads for fakers as being active. Just for a wind up. They're not for sale!! Unlucky. Then we can see him set up his own anger management/lawsuits anonymous therapy group. Ha!!

Edited May 22, 2013 by Rich

[Mr. Foxen]

Now thread has some momentum, bumping this:

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1369172484' post='2085927']
If anyone does happen to either want or want rid of such basses, feel free to PM or contact me via other means (sig links will take you to places with email address and facebook contact) and I'll endeavor to hook people up.
[/quote]

[quote name='Wolverinebass' timestamp='1369217800' post='2086342']
How many more things are going to get sued on? Don't DiMarzio offer replacement pickups as well?
[/quote]

He went after Hipshot for daring to make a compatible bridge that worked properly.

[URL=http://s17.photobucket.com/user/Incarante/media/JohnHallisacock.jpg.html][IMG]http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b69/Incarante/JohnHallisacock.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='Hamster' timestamp='1369213927' post='2086261']
If we decide to allow Rickenbacker content, it might be wise to mark every for sale thread title along this kind of template:

For Sale: Fender Jazz Bass (NOT A RICKENBACKER COPY)

That way we are making our position very clear - and any Google search on our website would show that we are not selling a RICKENBACKER COPY and there would not be any confusion or waste of time by anyone.
[/quote]

We could also have a not for sale under any circumstances forum, where we could all post pictures of our beloved r*&^y copies in great detail inviting other members to Pm them about how very lovely their not for sale under any circumstances basses are....
then the google image search would piss them off a bit as well.

[Wolverinebass]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1369218662' post='2086354']

He went after Hipshot for daring to make a compatible bridge that worked properly.

[/quote]

But that was because the tail lift was a "registered trademark." Not to mention the intonation and saddle adjustment problems. But hey, come on, that's worth paying for isn't it?!!

[karlfer]

It would be so much easier to take if Mr. Hall backed off private, individual sales of 60's/70's/80's made basses. It's making private people suffer for buying something that was legitimate at the time. I wonder how long Mr. Hall will continue to hack off an element of over 20,000 bass players in our little tin pot land

[karlfer]

[quote name='Rich' timestamp='1369220013' post='2086379']
That'd be 19,999. At least one person thinks JH is the good guy in all this
[/quote]
C'mon Rich, 'fess up