Posting images of Rickenbacker copies

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1369301616' post='2087411']
He probably tried to stop Hipshot marketing it as a 'Rickenbacker Replacement Bridge'. But it clearly hasn't worked.

[url="http://store.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=215"]http://store.hipshot...ct_detail&p=215[/url]


[/quote]

[quote]the new, completely redesigned Rickenbacker Bass Bridge[/quote]

Is because this is the post change one, the previous one was made to get less complaints like:

[quote]I really wish that this bridge looked a lot more like the stock Rickenbacker Bass bridge. This one is very angular and squared off making it look out of place on the instrument. Design, finishand increased tone are worlds beyond the rather crude stock bridge though.[/quote]

[foxton4001]

I'm afraid the people who buy Rics (Beatles, Jam, and all Mods in general) are not going to stop buying them - they are 60s Icons.
People that play 5/6 string basses with bodies that look like an explosion in Ikea, were never going to buy Rickenbackers in the first place.
JH is a man that wants to keep hold of his families design anyway he can. The guitars come out of a little factory, like they have done for about 60 years;
He will never make budget guitars, he will never change the design to suit the modern player and he takes pride in what he does.

Put yourself in his shoes.

(obviously I have extreme bias, but we all have different opinions; that's the way the world works.)

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='foxton4001' timestamp='1369324121' post='2087843']
I'm afraid the people who buy Rics (Beatles, Jam, and all Mods in general) are not going to stop buying them
[/quote]

Didn't Foxton play an Ibanez faker?

[foxton4001]

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1369324521' post='2087849']
Didn't Foxton play an Ibanez faker?
[/quote]

Before he could afford a Ric, yes matey!

[The Dark Lord]

[quote name='foxton4001' timestamp='1369324121' post='2087843']
I'm afraid the people who buy Rics (Beatles, Jam, and all Mods in general) are not going to stop buying them - they are 60s Icons.
People that play 5/6 string basses with bodies that look like an explosion in Ikea, were never going to buy Rickenbackers in the first place.
JH is a man that wants to keep hold of his families design anyway he can. The guitars come out of a little factory, like they have done for about 60 years;
He will never make budget guitars, he will never change the design to suit the modern player and he takes pride in what he does.

Put yourself in his shoes.

(obviously I have extreme bias, but we all have different opinions; that's the way the world works.)
[/quote]

Word.

[mushers]

i bet he goes as far to confiscate copies in the states
Not much can be done about him throwing his toys out of the pram best just not trade the copies on the forum i guess

Edited May 23, 2013 by Rich

[simon1964]

[quote name='foxton4001' timestamp='1369324121' post='2087843']
I'm afraid the people who buy Rics (Beatles, Jam, and all Mods in general) are not going to stop buying them - they are 60s Icons.
People that play 5/6 string basses with bodies that look like an explosion in Ikea, were never going to buy Rickenbackers in the first place.
JH is a man that wants to keep hold of his families design anyway he can. The guitars come out of a little factory, like they have done for about 60 years;
He will never make budget guitars, he will never change the design to suit the modern player and he takes pride in what he does.

Put yourself in his shoes.

(obviously I have extreme bias, but we all have different opinions; that's the way the world works.)
[/quote]

+1 to that.

I realise I'm in a tiny minority on this site, but as I have said in previous anti-John Hall threads, IMO there is no difference between a Rickenfaker and the knock off Chelsea shirts and Rolex watches you see on Oxford Street.

And people seem to forget that Fender have themselves vigourously defended their headstock shapes (which is why Fender copies all now have slightly different profiles) and Gibson have recenlty been embroiled with PRS over the single cut Les Paul shape (even though the PRS looked nothing like a Les Paul...).

The difference with Rickenbacker is that they have simply been better at it.

Edited May 23, 2013 by simon1964

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='throwoff' timestamp='1369230102' post='2086623']
Has anyone claimed the use of Reichenbacker yet? If not then I want it.
[/quote]

That would be heroic.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='simon1964' timestamp='1369330841' post='2087922']...IMO there is no difference between a Rickenfaker and the knock off Chelsea shirts and Rolex watches you see on Oxford Street...[/quote]

Good evening, Simon...

A fake watch purporting to be a real watch is one thing; a similarly-shaped guitar with its own brand, inspired by, but not making out to be, is quite another, imho.
Anyone buying a fake of whatever is very unlikely to be a customer for the real thing, I think. No sales loss to the real product.
Just my opinion, of course.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Dad3353

[simon1964]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1369333736' post='2087982']
Good evening, Simon...

A fake watch purporting to be a real watch is one thing; a similarly-shaped guitar with its own brand, inspired by, but not making out to be, is quite another, imho.
[/quote]

But a Rockinbetter, for example, is "making out to be" a Rickenbacker. The choice of name, the font used, the headstock shape, the truss rod cover shape, are all designed to look like a proper Ric. Otherwise why not call it a Tokai, use a different font and a different sdhaped Truss rod cover? The answer is simple - because then it wouldn't look like a Rickenbacker.

[ead]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1369333736' post='2087982']
Good evening, Simon...

A fake watch purporting to be a real watch is one thing; a similarly-shaped guitar with its own brand, inspired by, but not making out to be, is quite another, imho.
Anyone buying a fake of whatever is very unlikely to be a customer for the real thing, I think. No sales loss to the real product.
Just my opinion, of course.
[/quote]

Exactly, there is a small but significant difference between a fake (designed to deceive) and a copy (design to flatter for want of a better word). The latter being clearly sold as such; otherwise it would be a fake..

[mickster]

[quote name='simon1964' timestamp='1369330841' post='2087922']
+1 to that.

I realise I'm in a tiny minority on this site, but as I have said in previous anti-John Hall threads, IMO there is no difference between a Rickenfaker and the knock off Chelsea shirts and Rolex watches you see on Oxford Street.

[/quote]

But this isn't analagous to what JH is doing. This is not about him pursuing people making - or selling - counterfeit rics. The knock off Chelsea shirts are counterfeit cheaply produced items [i]pretending to be the real thing[/i], including a fake adidas-or-whatever-logo, and a real Chelsea badge on the front. The guitars at the centre of this are *not* pretending to be real Rics - they're just the same shape as a ric, with a completely different name & brand on the headstock.

But wait, there's more. Its not even that JH is pursuing the current manufacturers of these different-branded-guitars-with-the-same-shape. He's sending threatening legal documents to people who own 30 year-old versions of these guitars and are [i]selling them privately[/i] (without pretending they're a real ric) to other people. Again, this is not about his targetting the companies making current versions of these guitars: he's threatening individuals who are privately selling guitars that were made - and bought - many years before Mr Hall [i]even had a trademark [/i]on their design (he only took this out in 1988). The ric bodyshape was not trademarked when these different-branded-guitars-with-the-same-shape were even made!

But wait, there's more. This current thread is not even about the fact that JH is targetting the private individuals above. He's threatening forums and sites that even [i]mention the existence of, or display pictures of[/i], in ads, these different-branded-guitars-with-the-same-shape-as-a-ric-that-were-made-many-years-before-rics-shape-was-copyrighted-by-JH. [b]That's[/b] what people are objecting to...

Edited May 23, 2013 by mickster

[simon1964]

[quote name='mickster' timestamp='1369335389' post='2088029']
But this isn't analagous to what JH is doing. This is not about him pursuing people making - or selling - counterfeit rics. The knock off Chelsea shirts are counterfeit cheaply produced items [i]pretending to be the real thing[/i], including a fake adidas-or-whatever-logo, and a real Chelsea badge on the front. The guitars at the centre of this are *not* pretending to be real Rics - they're just the same shape as a ric, with a completely different name & brand on the headstock.
[/quote]

But that's my point about Rockinbetter - they are pretending to be the real thing. Or is it coincidence that they chose that name, chose an identical font, identical truss rod cover, identical headstock shape, and identical fingerboard inlays?

Edited May 23, 2013 by simon1964

[Musky]

[quote name='simon1964' timestamp='1369336139' post='2088056']
But that's my point about Rockinbetter - they are pretending to be the real thing. Or is it coincidence that they chose that name, chose an identical font, identical truss rod cover, identical headstock shape, and identical fingerboard inlays?
[/quote]
Your point about Rockinbetter is a fair, and is just as applicable to any of the other brands like Dillion or Indie. RIC is absolutely right to go after these and he's backed up by the law. However in the UK private sellers are definitely and deliberately excluded from this law. It's like that to protect anyone that may have legitimately bought an item only to find that many years after it's purchase it has been made subject to a ban on it's exchange. JH may not like but that's the way it is. That isn't stopping him from attempting to block the sale of these items however.

The continued sale of decades old 'fakers has arguably almost zero impact on the finances RIC, and certainly less of a direct impact than the secondhand sale of genuine Ricks. It remains to be seen how this policy will affect the current demand for Ricks.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Musky

[mickster]

[quote name='simon1964' timestamp='1369336139' post='2088056']
But that's my point about Rockinbetter - they are pretending to be the real thing. Or is it coincidence that they chose that name, chose an identical font, identical truss rod cover, identical headstock shape, and identical fingerboard inlays?
[/quote]

Out of interest, do you feel the same way about the SX basses on [url="http://www.sxguitarspain.com/sx_vintage_p-bass.htm"]this page[/url]? Do you feel these are actually trying to pass themselves off as real vintage Fender P Basses? Is there a danger that someone may confuse these with your real vintage 1964 Precision, or are they just clearly cheaper copies, based on the real thing?

Who or what is being protected here? The innocent consumer who might be confused into thinking they're buying a real ric, or is it the purchaser of the real thing (such as yourself), who is nervous that the existence of copies (but not counterfeits) somehow might take away some of the 'cachet' they attribute to the real deal?

And if its the latter, does that fear IYO justify all the bullying and legal threats that JH directs towards individuals and communities such as Bass Chat? Really??

Edited May 23, 2013 by mickster

[Musky]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1369319167' post='2087717']
Is because this is the post change one, the previous one was made to get less complaints like:
[/quote] Has the design of the Hipshot actually changed though? As far as I can remember it's still the same, at least since they came to my attention.

The objection JH has with Hipshot is that it shares the same footprint as the OEM item. Which would make for an interesting state of affairs if car manufacturers were so keen on threats of legal action.

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1369339362' post='2088148']
The continued sale of decades old 'fakers has arguably almost zero impact on the finances RIC, and certainly less of a direct impact than the secondhand sale of genuine Ricks. It remains to be seen how this policy will affect the current demand for Ricks.
[/quote]

In my case, having a decades old 'faker as my first bass guitar has left me with a fondness for the look, sound, feel and general design of Ric basses which will probably result in me owning one at some point. Admittedly this will not be be at any time in the next couple of years, as my finances aren't up to it, but I fully expect I will pick up a nice mapleglo Ric somewhere down the line. If Ibanez hadn't been able to make their Ric copies, I would probably have never considered this style of bass as an option. I'm sure I'm not the only one with a similar story.

[Magne]

I haven't had enough money to buy a proper Rickenbacker, I bought a copy from a friend. I was planning to buy one, but not anymore. There's no way I'm supporting a company like that. Way to go!

[BigRedX]

[quote name='simon1964' timestamp='1369334916' post='2088012']
But a Rockinbetter, for example, is "making out to be" a Rickenbacker. The choice of name, the font used, the headstock shape, the truss rod cover shape, are all designed to look like a proper Ric. Otherwise why not call it a Tokai, use a different font and a different sdhaped Truss rod cover? The answer is simple - because then it wouldn't look like a Rickenbacker.
[/quote]

"Otherwise why not call it a Tokai..."

Because they aren't made by Tokai. If they were, then it would say "Tokai" on the TRC. You can check this out by going to Music Inn on Canning Circus where they have two rather nicely made Rickenbacker copy guitars both showing the Tokai logo. They also have some Rockinbetter basses, which when you compare them are not at all in the same league when it comes to build quality and finish.

[Stacker]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1369340125' post='2088166']
In my case, having a decades old 'faker as my first bass guitar has left me with a fondness for the look, sound, feel and general design of Ric basses which will probably result in me owning one at some point. Admittedly this will not be be at any time in the next couple of years, as my finances aren't up to it, but I fully expect I will pick up a nice mapleglo Ric somewhere down the line. If Ibanez hadn't been able to make their Ric copies, I would probably have never considered this style of bass as an option. I'm sure I'm not the only one with a similar story.
[/quote]

My second bass was an Ibanez Rick copy, unfortunately the one with the left-over EB3-copy pups. But I loved that bass! It felt like a Rick. Took me another ten years to get the real McCoy (it was a bit of a disappointment compared to the Ibby!) but if i hadn't bought the Ibby (and been a Chris Squire megahead at time) I would have never been interested as I was a P-bass guy as a kid.

John Hall needs to let the past go but he cant: he's bordering on megalomania.

Ok, must go hunt down that [url="http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk259/koizguitar/GRECO%20RB%20RICK/IMG_9243.jpg"]Rickenfaker[/url] I've always desired

Edited May 23, 2013 by Stacker

[mcnach]

[quote name='Green Alsatian' timestamp='1369163845' post='2085734']
If I were the owner of Basschat, I would ban all discussion of Rickenbacker products and inform John Hall of this decision.

Or have Basschat sponsored by Music Store Professional and tell John Hall to suck it.
[/quote]


+1

announce it clearly at the top of BC: Rickenbacker free zone.
Full ban on anything Ric.

[mcnach]

[quote name='Hamster' timestamp='1369213528' post='2086253']
It may be much easier to make Basschat a totally 'Rickenbacker Free Zone' so the admins don't get any more bullish emails and live under constant threat of legal action.
[/quote]

Not a bad idea!

[BassTractor]

JH prefers me to tell the inquring punter:
- "It's a Jazz, but only a Squier. One day I'll get a Custom Shop! They're bloody fantastic"

rather than:

- "It's a 4003, but only a Rockinbetter. One day I'll get a real Rickenbacker! They're bloody fantastic"


I guess this means they have very limited production capacity.


I've said it before, but all I've ever lusted after was:
Rickenbacker, Rickenbacker, Rickenbacker, Rickenbacker, Bongo, StingRay, Streamer, Thumb, Corvette, Hohner B2, Jazz, Precision and some more.

I own or will soon own:
[color=#ffffff]Rickenbacker, Rickenbacker, Rickenbacker, Rickenbacker,[/color] Bongo, StingRay, Streamer, Thumb, Corvette, Hohner B2, Jazz, Precision and some more.



b,
b

[simon1964]

[quote name='mickster' timestamp='1369339443' post='2088151']
Out of interest, do you feel the same way about the SX basses on [url="http://www.sxguitarspain.com/sx_vintage_p-bass.htm"]this page[/url]? Do you feel these are actually trying to pass themselves off as real vintage Fender P Basses? Is there a danger that someone may confuse these with your real vintage 1964 Precision, or are they just clearly cheaper copies, based on the real thing?

[/quote]

No I don't feel the same about those. The SX name and logo is completely different to the Fender name and logo, and the SX headstock is a different shape to a Fender headstock. And guess what - there's a reason for that. Fender aggressively asserted their IP rights in the 70s when the likes of Tokai were producing Strat copies that had Tokai in Fender style script and with proper Strat shaped headstocks (and very nice they were too!). You will struggle to find a mainstream Fender copy with a proper Fender shaped headstock for that very reason.

That SX [u]has[/u] to have a different shaped headstock and a non-Fender type logo because Fender would sue them otherwise. Have you actually seen a Rockinbetter headstock on the other hand? From 5 yards you would struggle to tell it from a Ric.

Edited May 23, 2013 by simon1964

[Sonic_Groove]

[quote name='Magne' timestamp='1369342576' post='2088234']
I haven't had enough money to buy a proper Rickenbacker, I bought a copy from a friend. I was planning to buy one, but not anymore. There's no way I'm supporting a company like that. Way to go!
[/quote]

+1 I would never buy from such a short sighted company. People buy a copy & aspire to the genuine article. Stupid