Gig Etiquette

[BigRedX]

At multi-band gigs gear sharing is the only way to go really, and if it's been sorted out between the bands and the promotor in advance everyone knows what they are getting in to. And these days with social media and other modern methods of getting in contact with people there no excuse for it not to be.

A lot of the time there's not really enough time to do complete equipment swaps between sets. I can get my big rig and basses completely set up in under 5 minutes from getting the gear to the stage area (and get it all packed up again in the same time). However most of the time I find myself waiting for the previous band who seem to take forever to ret their stuff out of the way. We were involved in a gig last month where every band insisted in using their own amps and we were told we had to bring our own. By the time we had got through 3 lots of gear swap overs, there wasn't enough time left for us to do our full set.

At another recent multi-band gig where we had offered to supply the bass rig, the headlining band, having turned up late insisted on using their bass rig. Despite having some tasty-looking gear, his set up produced a nasty buzz through the PA no matter where in the signal chain it was DI'd and IMO all the other bands who used my rig that night had a much better bass sound.

[steve-bbb]

[quote name='mike257' timestamp='1369499332' post='2089872']
Or if you're busting out the duct tape, just put a piece on top of your head with a quick sketch of your settings. Tried and tested. Half a dozen circles with a line to show which way they need to point and you've got instant recall!

The old ways are often the best.
[/quote]

i disagree and inclined to agree with mr wazoo - i regularly gig my amp with pre and master maxed out but i leave the EQ punched out but i use the shelf boost to up the low end only about 10% and cut the top end about the same - never have any problems - always sounds clean, no fade (hartke2500+410hydrive)

however

if some little oik was to ramp the low end shelf up past 50% and punch the EQ in and max the low end on the EQ as well then it will definitely start groaning under the pressure - despite all the reassuarances that they will keep the settings within reasonable limits once their up on stage you are at their mercy and it will only take one little selfish unthinking bedroom bassist diva to start maxing everything up because they're not hearing 'their sound' and you have instant recipe for amp/cab failure

having said that i dont think that many would actually change the settings - ive been to plenty of open mic nights with several bass players all rolling up with their own basses and plugging in and the only adjustments ive seen going on were very basic just to get the volume level correct if you were swapping for example between a high output active and a low output passive - i would even go so far as to say that most will respect other players rigs as they appreciate that the markbass or ampeg rig they are plugign in to is way better than anything they currently have or are likely to get in the very near future - but there are always exceptions and eventually somebody somewhere will get their rig well and truly ferked because of somebody else's inexperience and inability to listen to simple instructions

i think the bottom line is that it is a dynamic risk assessment - ie who rolls up asking and whether you feel you can trust them if you or your close friends cant vouch for them

Edited May 26, 2013 by steve-bbb

[Beer of the Bass]

Another wee rant under the header of gig etiquette;
Dear Other Band, yes, I know changover times are limited, but I could pack my gear a lot faster if you hadn't just dumped all your sh*t on top of it two seconds after my last note rang out. And our singer/guitarist could get off much quicker if the "promoter" didn't stand in the middle of her cables and pedals to call the raffle. Grrrr! This happened to us this evening, and we were not impressed.

Edited May 26, 2013 by Beer of the Bass

[tauzero]

[quote name='seashell' timestamp='1369423069' post='2089225']
It was a great question Dave, but unfortunately I did not understand the answer provided.
I wish I could find somewhere to go for technical lessons.
I need someone to teach me right from the absolute rock bottom basics.
[/quote]

Quick guide - as a general rule, you have a gain conrol on the left, tone controls or graphic EQ or both in the middle, and a master volume control on the right. Start with gain and master turned right down and the tone controls/EQ flat. If there's a light saying "clip" or a meter, turn the gain control up until the clip light comes on briefly when you play at your loudest or the meter needle approaches 0dB or the red zone, then back it off a fraction. Then turn the volume control up until it's as loud as you want it. If there's no visual indication of input level, first turn the volume control up a little and then turn the gain up until it starts getting distorted, then turn the gain down a bit, then adjust volume to suit. Then muck around with the tone controls/EQ.

[seashell]

That's useful, many thanks Tauzero.
When I look at an amp I tend to go into panic mode, and all the controls swim before my eyes!
I'm frightened to touch anything in case it breaks.
I've got a rehearsal tonight and I intend to calmly follow your instructions. :-)

[JTUK]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1369610795' post='2090934']
Another wee rant under the header of gig etiquette;
Dear Other Band, yes, I know changover times are limited, but I could pack my gear a lot faster if you hadn't just dumped all your sh*t on top of it two seconds after my last note rang out. And our singer/guitarist could get off much quicker if the "promoter" didn't stand in the middle of her cables and pedals to call the raffle. Grrrr! This happened to us this evening, and we were not impressed.
[/quote]

Things like this is why you need to take control of the happy amateur hour.
Just as bands work at it to get the songs working, they should extend that professionalism, for want of a better word, in getting the overall show working right.
There should be stage hands or a 'manager' who runs things tightly...if people are too stupid to work out that gear off is before next gear on...!!
It is a fine line between getting known for having 'egos' and doing things well.

A lot of party organisers have such a lot of work to do the last thing they give ANY thought to is how the main entertainment event will actually work.
It isn't only about 1hr of music or whatever...
It may well be that the experienced bands tell the organisers how it should be...and at the very early stages, so you can pull off the gig if need be,
This isn't far short of contracts...and whilst that is a hassle as well... you can see why they are required at some point.

This fine tuning of the running of the show is what promoters and their team and should do well.. as well as sell the gigs, and then they will be worth their money.

One of our biggest.. no, best, clients are hard task masters.. but they pay well and look after you properly.
They have a great back stage rider..and if you know the client, you'd understand why... and they charge high ticket prices..we think..
but the shows work.
When you consider everything...you are lucky to have them working WITH you.... they do things properly and that rubs off on everything else.

[Painy]

I'm personally okay with people using my rig and we frequently have support acts who will message us before the gig to ask if they can use parts of our gear. If they just asume its obviously a different story though.
To be honest I quite enjoy seeing some kid who was expecting to use his beat up old 100watt combo get all excited about playing through my Ampeg rig but I generally say I'll help him get a sound so I can be in control of my gear and keep it safe. Because the eq on my amp is parametric, re-setting it afterwards is a doddle!

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='Painy' timestamp='1369672285' post='2091432']
To be honest I quite enjoy seeing some kid who was expecting to use his beat up old 100watt combo get all excited about playing through my Ampeg rig
[/quote]

Haha that's cool I might do the same some day.

[icastle]

[quote name='arthurhenry' timestamp='1369561874' post='2090380']
Then there's the person who, despite the availability of a house rig, or one provided by a player who's more than happy to share, insists on using their own rig, as they absolutely must have their "sound" for the half hour set to four people. Sound engineers love them.
[/quote]

IME any half decent sound engineer can accommodate any half decent bass rig in less than a minute and if they can't, then they need to stop playing at being sound engineers.

I don't do many of these 'multiband' things outside of the festival season, but I always make it perfectly clear that I'm either using my rig or I'm just not going to be playing - I've never had a problem with that in the 30+ years I've been doing them.

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1369410192' post='2088998']
I understand that, not a problem.

But its nothing to do with the design of the amp at all, they are designed correctly, but can be misued, like a rifle.

The amp is designed specifically to allow lots of different levels to hit the front end and be attenuated or amplified to a sensible volume fo rthe amp to deal with internally. Thats the gain control.

Then this signal passes through eq and who knows what, and dependant on the nature of the signal going in the front, huge boosts in the eq can also cause the power amp stage to clip unexpectedly.

A lot of amps have a limiter built in to help stop this, but its not nice, and no analogue limiter in an amp is going to contain everything that could be going on (they cant look ahead in real time for one thing).

Then there is abuse of the output seciton, especially by the chap who has eq'ed oodles of sub in to get 'his sound' that subsequently cant be heard at anything less than terraforming volumes. So he turns the master up to those levels and puts loads more stress into the cab, and its crossover.

Amps are designed to be useful for a wide array of people and kit. They can equally be misused by some of those people and this will be detrimental to the life expectancy of the rig.

As far as I am aware my rig wasnt bought by a cretin , I am determined that it wont be used by one ever either, not while I own it. There are probably several people on this forum that would argue that it is in fact clearly owned by a cretin already
[/quote]

Thanks for that Si, very helpful stuff.
My problem has always been that I come at everything like the punk guitar player I started out as back in the late '80s, when we all had crappy old Sound City valve amps (that are now worth a great deal more than we thought) and the only way to get a useable guitar sound out of them was to dime all the controls. They never died. I still do this to my little 15w Vox for guitars, it is also perfectly happy. Never done it to a bass amp (not quite true, I once had a big old sound city valve head, with the same problem, but they were very much passive controls I believe, and I fried it eventually with a guitar, more due to sustained years of abuse than any single incident).
Different beasties perhaps? Or maybe I was just lucky back then.

[jazzyvee]

Many of the gigs I've done on bass where rigs have been provided, they have not been good rigs. They have been good makes but always had some problem, crackling signal, dodgy controls etc. I always use my own rig whenever possible.

I did a gig in London earlier this year and there was a big Ampeg rig with a 4x10 and 1x15 but when I plugged in it sounded dreadful and during soundcheck the signal kept breaking up at normal playing volume, which for me is not loud. So I spoke with the sound guy and he was fine with me using my own Mesa Walkabout head which I have learnt by experience to carry to all gigs where there is supposed to be a back-line provided. Saved my skin many times using as a head or even just taking it's DI out to the PA. At least I know my sound will be going out front even if not on stage.

As for allowing a band to use my rig, It's unlikely especially after reading this thread but maybe if it was a quiet band.
Like some have alluded to,I've spent a lot of time and money getting the rig I have and would not want the risk of someone blowing it and not thinking they should be paying for the repair or replacement.


Jazzyvee

Edited May 27, 2013 by jazzyvee

[JTUK]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1369678675' post='2091573']


I don't do many of these 'multiband' things outside of the festival season, but I always make it perfectly clear that I'm either using my rig or I'm just not going to be playing - I've never had a problem with that in the 30+ years I've been doing them.
[/quote]

Festivals are the only time we really get involved in multi bills... altho we might have a couiple of 'support' gigs where it makes sense to talk about gear if you need to be there early for soundcheck.

I tend to ask what is available if they seem to be pushing me towards using someones backline.. but tbh... my gear will trump it anyway almost all of the tine, IMO.

I do take the point that you may feel good 'providing' a nice rig to someone ...

[51m0n]

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1369687263' post='2091703']
Thanks for that Si, very helpful stuff.
My problem has always been that I come at everything like the punk guitar player I started out as back in the late '80s, when we all had crappy old Sound City valve amps (that are now worth a great deal more than we thought) and the only way to get a useable guitar sound out of them was to dime all the controls. They never died. I still do this to my little 15w Vox for guitars, it is also perfectly happy. Never done it to a bass amp (not quite true, I once had a big old sound city valve head, with the same problem, but they were very much [b]passive controls [/b]I believe, and I fried it eventually with a guitar, more due to sustained years of abuse than any single incident).
Different beasties perhaps? Or maybe I was just lucky back then.

[/quote]

Passive tone controls are one part of this, they cant ever supply more output than they get in input, very different from a modern eq section that is designed (very often to) to be able to provide up to 16dB of boost in several sections that will overlap of pushed hard.

Tube amps are funny too, in that as you saturate a tube it becomes a compressor leveling out peaks, solid state amps dont behave like that in quite the same way and will tend to try and push out what comes in, but louder, not attenutating the peaks and transients anywhere near as much as tube gear.

Then there is the fact you were running guitar not bass through these amps, thats a signal that requires less energy to derive the same percieved output volume as bass, because of the frequencies involved. Less energy means less chance of disaster, less heat build up blah blah blah.

Loads of reasons why these amps may survive this treatment, the thing is its not an apples with apples comparision. My rig doesnt behave like that, I wouldnt be happy with someone trying any of that abuse with my rig (unless they put absolutely top dollar in my pocket first as insurance in case they broke something treating it like that). Mine is still a perfectly well designed rig though, its just capable of more, and with great power comes great responsibility (groan)

[DogHammer]

Thanks for all the comments, after some of the horror stories you have posted, I think I will definitely be taking my amp off stage or the power cable away.

Doing a festival at the weekend, and there will be many bands on the Saturday night we are playing, so will guard it with my life!

[TG Flatline]

First, people should always ask to borrow gear, and it's up to you whether you lend it. Simply asking for something shouldn't mean they automatically get it! Saying "no" doesn't make you an arse. Are they going to pay for it if it breaks? I wouldn't count on it. Second, the best way to try and avoid the issue is to arrange everything in advance. If you're not the guy who arranges things, make sure the guy who is knows what you'll lend and what you won't. I'd avoid leaving jack cables on stage too - easily nicked or picked up accidentally if nothing else, and then you're up the creek when you get up there to play. Nothing worse than needing to borrow gear during a changeover!

[MacDaddy]

it's a funny one this. The initial answer is no, but there are plenty of people on Basschat - some I haven't actually met in person - who I would be happy to lend gear to.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1369678675' post='2091573']
I don't do many of these 'multiband' things outside of the festival season, but I always make it perfectly clear that I'm either using my rig or I'm just not going to be playing - I've never had a problem with that in the 30+ years I've been doing them.
[/quote]

Sometimes I think people are too precious about using their own gear - especially for bass. While it's much easier for me to get the right sound out of my rig (I plug in, switch on and there it is) I haven't yet come across a rig when I've used one belonging either to the venue or one of the bands that we are sharing the bill with, that I can't get a usable sound out of.

[Lozz196]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1369735225' post='2092028']
Sometimes I think people are too precious about using their own gear - especially for bass. While it's much easier for me to get the right sound out of my rig (I plug in, switch on and there it is) I haven't yet come across a rig when I've used one belonging either to the venue or one of the bands that we are sharing the bill with, that I can't get a usable sound out of.
[/quote]

I`m kind-of the same, however in one of my bands we have 2 basses, so whatever happens we end up using one of ours. If we do a gig where one of the bassists can`t make it no problems at all, and especially if going FOH - I just set all eqs on the borrowed amp at midday.

[Joshua Higginson]

When I first started gigging, I feel incredibly thankful for all of the bassists that let me use their gear- especially in situations where you're the local opening band, and the headliner's entourage has pretty much blockaded the whole stage. However I do have a story to tell! We must have been playing at a smallish venue, with the dons of the metal underworld in Rugby and over email, I'd arranged to borrow the headliner's rig with no problems at all. I turned up on the day all fine and dandy, life was great! This band's bassist walked me through his gear and helped me set up for the show. TFC played our slot and immediately after, this giant of a vocalist clambered up on stage and all hell broke loose on my 15 year old self. What I hadn't realised was that this amplifier was peaking in the red quite often, and I honestly thought my arms were going to be dismembered from my body and used as drumsticks. From then on, even if it says that gear is supplied, I've brought my own rig along. I think from my own experiences and how I was 'brought up' in the scene, I am much more willing to lend out equipment. It's not so much people are completely braindead, more misinformed as to how much these things cost and what happens to break them. Obviously if someone decides to deliberately batter it about, I'm not going to be happy, but I think that even a snail would have the common sense and the courtesy to realise that this stuff [b]does actually belong to someone![/b]

Edited May 28, 2013 by Joshua Higginson

[woodyratm]

I'm an arse with my gear now. Burned too often! I've spent too much cash on gear to have some pleb ruin it.

Also it's utter annoyance when I had my valve head and 610 cab. "Yeah guys - you can use it, just be careful and give me a hand loading it out at the end of the night"

Then at the end of the gig, them buggering off.

[KevB]

Did a depping job favour for a mate at a charity festival thing a year or two back and was told all back line would be provided, just turn up with a bass so I did. Got lumbered with some old laney combo that was clearly faulty and no one in their right mind would have let it up on stage if they'd checked it for 5 minutes in advance. As it was the acts before us hadn't required it as they were acoustic sets. The combo kept generating bizarre random harmonics squealing all over the place. I might have been able to get it sorted if I'd been allowed any time with it in advance but we were just chucked on and told to play. Interestingly I noted the band after us brought ALL their own backline with them, I guess they had done this gig before!

[Telebass]

This has been asked many times. I don't lend my gear or go without my own. No point being in a band otherwise, surely?

[Cosmo Valdemar]

[quote name='Spike Vincent' timestamp='1369395554' post='2088694']
I wouldn't dream of using someone else's kit without asking first.It's just wrong.
[/quote]

This. Most of the gigs my old band played used gear shares and I don't have a problem with that, but even if I knew it was already agreed for me to use someone else's bass amp I would ALWAYS introduce myself first, double-check everything was ok to use and offer to buy them a drink.
I can remember countless gigs where another bass player would simply help themselves to my amp. I never managed to show the same level of restraint demonstrated by the OP though...

People using my amp as a resting place for bottles and glasses, well that has seen me get up on stage mid set to 'sort them out'...

[Lozz196]

I think that`s the main problem Ben, it`s unlikely amps will blow at regular gig volumes, but having drinks placed on them is an accident waiting to happen.

[Beer of the Bass]

The one thing I always do when amp sharing is to put a bit of tape across the top with "NO DRINKS ON THE AMP, THANKS" written in big black marker pen.