Gig Etiquette

[Judo Chop]

The only time I lent my amp out at a gig I put duct tape over the controls to stop him changing my settings, and the guy was happy with that, after the gig they all sloped off without saying thanks.
A few months later I heard he'd been slagging me off afterwards because he couldn't get "his sound," and I was being "totally unreasonable."

If you turn up to a gig without an amp just expecting to borrow someone else's then don't be surprised if they put a few ground rules down.
That's if you're lucky enough to be allowed to use one in the first place.

[Low End Bee]

I must add I do lend my rig out a lot and most have turned out to be perfect gentlemen too.

[Dave Vader]

By no means the worst thing to have happened, but many many years ago a guy from a band who I knew a bit, not very well, their fiddle player was a good mate of mine, but it wasn't him, asked me if he could use one of my guitars as his had gone bang that day. I said fine, use the Les paul, I am not bothered about it so much, but please leave the strat alone, I've not had it long, and it is quirky (to say the least).

I came back in from a jaunt to another pub in the middle of their set, to see him happily playing away on my beloved strat. Wasn't too bothered, not like he was abusing it. But I did have to chuckle when he turned the volume down on it (or so he thought) and hung it off his back to do some acapella singing bits.
What he didn't know was that the top control was a tone control with a reverse taper on it, so he had in fact just turned the tone up full, and allowed a ton of screamy feedback and weirdness to flood the room.

Few years later I was watching a video of another gig at another pub and spotted a very familiar looking yellow stratocaster in a similar situation. I didn't even know these guys at all, and the twat had clearly just grabbed my guitar from behind all the piles of gear at the back of the stage and used it for their whole set after he twanged a string on the first song.

Didn't ask me before the gig or afterwards, and the first I knew of it was when I picked it up for our set and found that my strap had disappeared and had to borrow one. Because I was in the other bar having a drink and enjoying myself away from the noise.

Was months later I saw the whole video and put two and two together.
bastards the lot of them.

[bonzodog]

Its just plain rude to plug into an amp without asking, unless they were kids and a bit naïve. Simple answer is, as has been said before is the organiser to sort it all beforehand. We are playing tonight and there are 5 bands on, with us being 4th on bill. The organisers have already set up back line and we've been told to just bring guitars and FX. This does however have a downside as I have no idea what amp I will be playing through and we have been told we must not bring our own amps,

[neepheid]

I felt I crossed a line at my last gig. Was in a venue which has a usable house amp so didn't bother taking anything - because sometimes it's nice to be able just to turn up with a bass and a bag o' bits. Arriving for our soundcheck (on first, so soundchecked last) I find an unfamiliar Ashdown combo on the stage which had a sticker with the headlining band's name on it. No sign of said headlining band so I couldn't ask. House amp was buried in the corner of the stage. Sound engineer told me to plug into the DI box under the combo (on a stand). I felt a bit hmmm about it, but I did as I was instructed.

I didn't touch anything on the amp other than the mute button when appropriate. I made sure I stuck around for the whole gig and afterwards thanked the bass player in the headline band for the use of the amp. It was the wrong way round to do things and I felt a bit bad about it but thankfully the guy was cool.

[Lozz196]

I`ve no real issues with lending other bassists my amp providing they ask. What I don`t like is venues stating "sort one backline out amongst yourselves" therefore making someone lend their gear out. When I have a venue do that, I tell them I play DI through FOH and will provide my own DI.

The other thing is, invariably the headliners then turn up without amps, so someone has to hang around all night waiting for the gig to finish.

[51m0n]

If I dont know someone (incredibly) well, they dont go near my kit. If they try they will be unplugged, mid song. I dont consider that being an arse, I consider not bringing the tools you need to do the job you want to do being an artse.

Seen and experienced to much kit abuse, heard too many tales, and spent far too much of my hard earned cash to risk it. These pages are full of lovely people who play bass, and yet time and again there are people on here who clearly dotn know anything anout proper gainstaging or eq, why would I expect someone in a band I've never met to know any more, and then let them loose on my kit to find out how to break it?

If someone doesnt like it, go get your own kit. If I turn up to a gig with my rig then I get to play through it, I consequently always take my rig. If I turn up to a gig without the kit to play then that means I'm intending to be in the audience.

As for using other peoples kit, why would I do that? It takes five minutes to change over a bass rig, I mean come on!

[bertbass]

+1 to that.

Less than 5 minutes if it's already set up.

[Dave Vader]

Honest question, if turning everything up full on an amp will kill it, surely that's really rubbish design? Why have parameters you can't use?

[charic]

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1369405282' post='2088873']
Honest question, if turning everything up full on an amp will kill it, surely that's really rubbish design? Why have parameters you can't use?
[/quote]

I don't know if it will kill my amp doing that but it WILL kill my cab (1000w going into 750w cab)

[51m0n]

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1369405282' post='2088873']
Honest question, if turning everything up full on an amp will kill it, surely that's really rubbish design? Why have parameters you can't use?
[/quote]

You dont understand gain staging really do you?

The input gain control on my amp dimed is pumping a huge amount more (many many many dB in fact) into the front of the EQ section than if it is set up properly.

You are naively assuming that the output from all basses and fx pedals are the same.

If I set up my fx to maxmimum output levels (and I have a couple of filters that can produce very steep Qs with huge peaks at the frequncies they are sweeping through, say +12dB at least each, add that to +16dB of bass at 40Hz shelf, added to another +16dB anywhere from about 70Hz through 500Hz (Lo Mid) then you are looking at in places maybe another 44dB of aqmplitude hitting the front end.

So with that kind of misuse and really stupid settings of the initial input gain I would expect issues to arise, either the amp will call it a day and shutdown due to overheating trying to push that much low end (if you are lucky), or a component in the cab or amp may fail or who knows.

Yes my amp has a limiter, but its not supposed to be run like that, and it will not do it any good.

I reckon if you let me I can demonstrate this, let me plu g my bass and fx into your rig and have a play with the controls, then run it dimed for half an hour. Are you willing to bet I wont stress your rig anywhere in a way that would make you feel at the very least uncomfortable?

ANd yes I have seen uneducated bassists do all of those sorts of things to their own and other peoples riogs because they didnt understand how it should be done, or the soudn of overloaded front ends and crashing limiters was 'their sound'. Not with my rig it isnt!

Edited May 24, 2013 by 51m0n

[Dave Vader]

I don't deny that it is possible, I was just trying to work out why these things are made this way when they are generally bought by cretins.
I admit my question was put in the simplest terms, and I've blown up a few amps in the past exactly this way, so yeah I do understand it, but I remembered a guitar player I was working with once who remarked on my buying yet another amp.
I told him that I had blown the little one I had on as it "wasn't designed to go that loud" (again I was putting it simply)
He then told me that it clearly was as the design allowed it to do that, so it's inherent design meant that it was designed to go that loud. I suspect he was either trying to be clever, or a bit thick.

Apologies if I came off like him Si, really I do get it, I just like the odd bit of clarification now and then.

Was a genuine question about the electrical aspects of the amp, not a dig at all you non-sharers, I understand your points, I always patiently explain how my amp works to those who share it (usually it's the other way round, as I am not precious about my sound so will use any old tat.) I am nice to other people's stuff as well, usually don't touch anything, unless it sounds horrid. In which case i will bypass all the shiny things, and turn input and outputs to adjust, remembering to put them back after.

Calm down dear, I'm not going to hurt your amp.

[51m0n]

I understand that, not a problem.

But its nothing to do with the design of the amp at all, they are designed correctly, but can be misued, like a rifle.

The amp is designed specifically to allow lots of different levels to hit the front end and be attenuated or amplified to a sensible volume fo rthe amp to deal with internally. Thats the gain control.

Then this signal passes through eq and who knows what, and dependant on the nature of the signal going in the front, huge boosts in the eq can also cause the power amp stage to clip unexpectedly.

A lot of amps have a limiter built in to help stop this, but its not nice, and no analogue limiter in an amp is going to contain everything that could be going on (they cant look ahead in real time for one thing).

Then there is abuse of the output seciton, especially by the chap who has eq'ed oodles of sub in to get 'his sound' that subsequently cant be heard at anything less than terraforming volumes. So he turns the master up to those levels and puts loads more stress into the cab, and its crossover.

Amps are designed to be useful for a wide array of people and kit. They can equally be misused by some of those people and this will be detrimental to the life expectancy of the rig.

As far as I am aware my rig wasnt bought by a cretin , I am determined that it wont be used by one ever either, not while I own it. There are probably several people on this forum that would argue that it is in fact clearly owned by a cretin already

Edited May 24, 2013 by 51m0n

[machinehead]

I do let other players use my amp, cab and sometimes even my bass but I do let them know the rules first.

On one gig, the night was being opened by a jazz orchestra and the leader asked at setup if his bass player could use my amp and cab. I was happy to do this but when I turned up later the orchestra had started and the bass player had a pint of Guinness sitting on my amp.

I immediately walked on to the stage and told him to get his pint of my amp - they were playing when I did this but, as far as I'm concerned, tough, because he was abusing my gear and it's replacement value would have been about £1500.00 in total.

He gave me a sheepish apology and removed his pint to the floor.

I do always keep a close eye on my gear when someone else is using it though and wouldn't hesitate to switch it off mid-song if I felt someone was treating it with any less care than I would myself.

Frank.

[Lynottfan]

I have no problem lending people gear at a gig as long as they ask, and hopefully they are not idiots (I will apply judgement as I see fit on this).
I will try and help out as much as possible, as I have been helped out myself in the past.
As for my bass, NO WAY, my Ray is sacred to me, and if that offends, tough sh*t.
Have to agree with all here that say its not you that is the problem when another person turns up and has no gear, [b]its their problem.[/b]
I'm a Bass guitarist, I have bass amps and bass guitars and relevant gear, to have none of this they are just filthy musical leeches (I feel rather strongly about this )
Dave Marks used to have a great vid on his site about this sort of thing iirc.

[Skol303]

My old man, a dab hand at electronics, once built a 2kw amp that notched up numerous speaker fatalities during its loud and murderous existence. Not helped by the fact that it ran at 2kw pretty much constant at full volume, rather than 2kw peak.

First time I ever saw a speaker cab catch fire was a result of that monster. Definitely needed some kind of built-in limiter. Or fire-extinguisher.

It ended up getting knicked during a house party years ago... I like to think it's still out there somewhere, slaying all speaker cabinets that dare cross it

[Jayben]

I'm perfectly happy to lend my gear out, I'll even allow people to adjust the tone a little if they really need - I don't expect a reggae bass player to try and play his set with my ultra-toppy high-gain tone.

I've even lent out my bass once. I did know the guy, and there were mitigating circumstances - it was his only bass and it got wrecked on the way to the venue.

I couldn't afford to replace my rig if it blew, though. Hence I keep a very close eye people using it, and take care to point out the big switch labelled 'active/passive'..

[JTUK]

Realy really really got to ask

[E sharp]

Someone somewhere mentioned on thread like this before , changing your amp's 1/4 " jack input for a female XLR , just to stop anyone trying it on if you go to the other bar . Not many bass players carry a jack to XLR lead .

[White Cloud]

Trust me on this, I have learnt the hard way that this is not a good idea.

If the person borrowing my gear has the decency to ask then I may, MAY, go with it....however bitter experience has taught me that people who generally use the property of others couldn't give a flying f**k about looking after it.

Not asking (or being grateful) is simple ignorance. I would have told them to beat it.

[seashell]

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1369405282' post='2088873']
Honest question, if turning everything up full on an amp will kill it, surely that's really rubbish design? Why have parameters you can't use?
[/quote]

It was a great question Dave, but unfortunately I did not understand the answer provided.
I wish I could find somewhere to go for technical lessons.
I need someone to teach me right from the absolute rock bottom basics.
It's taken 2 years of lurking on here to even figure out the difference between an amp and a cab, never mind anything else.

Ah well, that's the next challenge I guess. Meanwhile I'm just playing in rehearsal studios and in one pub with it's own gear. Never turn any knobs above the 12 o clock position and hope for the best.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='Jack Cahalane' timestamp='1369401109' post='2088792']
The only time I lent my amp out at a gig I put duct tape over the controls to stop him changing my settings, and the guy was happy with that, after the gig they all sloped off without saying thanks.
A few months later I heard he'd been slagging me off afterwards because he couldn't get "his sound," and I was being "totally unreasonable."

If you turn up to a gig without an amp just expecting to borrow someone else's then don't be surprised if they put a few ground rules down.
That's if you're lucky enough to be allowed to use one in the first place.
[/quote]

to be honest, that's pretty lame behaviour in my opinion.

By all means, refuse to lend someone an amp. That's cool. But to lend them one and then duct tape the controls? That's pretty sad.

[chrismuzz]

I played a gig just last night where I was told that the headlining band were sharing their drums and backline with all the supporting bands. I still messaged them, introduced myself, explained what I had been told, and asked if they were aware of this, and if they were OK with it. I strongly believe in sorting out equipment before you get to the venue...

Although if somebody asks me if they can use my gear I am happy to oblige I'm headlining a show in Macclesfield next weekend, and I'm currently sat twiddling my thumbs wondering if/when the bassists from the supporting bands will approach me...

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1369429912' post='2089313']
to be honest, that's pretty lame behaviour in my opinion.

By all means, refuse to lend someone an amp. That's cool. But to lend them one and then duct tape the controls? That's pretty sad.
[/quote]

With some amps it can take a long time to set a good sound up. Luckily my Markbass head is the king of simplicity, however nobody has ever changed my settings because they sound perfect for a metal band

HOWEVER... If I was to let somebody use my pedalboard, they would NEVER be allowed to adjust any of the settings!

[Dave_the_bass]

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1369433932' post='2089368']
I played a gig just last night where I was told that the headlining band were sharing their drums and backline with all the supporting bands. I still messaged them, introduced myself, explained what I had been told, and asked if they were aware of this, and if they were OK with it. I strongly believe in sorting out equipment before you get to the venue...

Although if somebody asks me if they can use my gear I am happy to oblige I'm headlining a show in Macclesfield next weekend, and I'm currently sat twiddling my thumbs wondering if/when the bassists from the supporting bands will approach me...
[/quote]

+1 to this. If I can't get hold of the bassist who's rig I'm supposed to be using before the event I tend to throw mine in the car and take it. It stays in the car until I've tracked down the bassist and double checked that it's definitely okay and that they are aware of the situation.

I turned up to a few gigs early on in my bass career where the promoter had told the other bands that they could use my amp. First I knew of this was when the next band to sound check plugged in to it!

If I'm aware in advance I don't tend to say no, but I do keep a close eye on my gear. Although this may change when I start gigging the Genz and Berg set up.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Dave_the_bass