bloc party/departure inf bass sound - EQ setting help

[Mod_Machine]

Hello,
As you can see still a newbie and desperately want some help getting a biting crisp indie/new wave bass sound from my set-up. Its not too bad at the moment however although i find it easier to get an even sound accross the range on a Hartke amp, thru mine it sounds a little TOO trebily at times and im now stuck in a rut so any help on the eq settings, the knob positions etc kindly accepted, tried and fedback. Im after that new wave biting sound that isnt too boomy.

My set up is
BASS : Ibanez Jetking (2 pickups)
EFFECT PEDAL : Hartke Bass attack DI pedal (bass, treble and shape and mix knobs,+the tube emulator and 'bright' knobs)
AMP : Behringer BXL 3000a ultrabass 2 channel 300watt amp(master volume, gain channel 1/gain channel 2(which is a slightler bittier sound), SHape knob (to select pre set eq shapes to be used on top of the 7 band graphic-can not be bypassed, compression knob)

any advice for the settings and graphic to try im much obliged!

Mod

Edited June 4, 2008 by Mod_Machine

[Josh]

Welcome to the forum Mod!


Unfortunatley the best advice I can offer from listening to Bloc Party and from seeing various live clips is that a good bulk of his sound is from his Fender P-Bass, and I'm not too sure if it's a Mexican or American either.


Sorry man thats the best I can do.


Josh

[Shockwave]

Bloc partys bassist uses a MIM P LPB bass.

The departure bassist uses Warwick P-J basses. Good luck in getting the tone! They are both very different from eachother,

Edited June 3, 2008 by Shockwave

[Mod_Machine]

Cheers. I dont think ive made myself particualrly clear though so apologies!
i appreciate that the instrument itself will allow me to actually replicate each ones tone, but buying a new instrument, and/or amp is a no go due to financial requirements above and beyond the band.

Im after advice on graphic equalizer/amp settings i can use as a base to then fine tune to get a more individual tone - one that isnt identical to bloc party or The Departure, but that is new wavey influenced and would fit into a band influenced by those guys (is this any clearer!??)

One of the biggest probs i have faced when i first started playing bass was that little advice is given on what different tones different EQ shapes provide, or even what different EQ shapes are (ie where to put the sliders on each one of the 7 band graphic eqs). Instead alot of emphasis was put on using preset 'shape' buttons....which dont really help me at all! as if the sound coming from my amp doesnt make any sense to me i cant really progress from there.

The only real advice i have had is 'put the eq into a smile shape'! All well and good...but it seems to sound closer to what i want when i start moving it into a sad shape! im after any other ideas and/or explanations i can use to understand better.

picking up on the niavity yet?

[SJA]

[quote name='Mod_Machine' post='212378' date='Jun 4 2008, 11:23 AM']The only real advice i have had is 'put the eq into a smile shape'! All well and good...but it seems to sound closer to what i want when i start moving it into a sad shape! im after any other ideas and/or explanations i can use to understand better.[/quote]

the smiley face (bass + treble boost, mids cut) eq is good for funk, modern R&B contexts, and good for slap,

however, in rock, indie, metal, the bass needs mids to cut through, so if a frowny face eq sounds more like it, go for it. take the preshapes off, set the eq flat, then try boosting in the 2k region.

Edited June 4, 2008 by SJA

[johnnylager]

[quote name='Mod_Machine' post='212378' date='Jun 4 2008, 11:23 AM']Instead alot of emphasis was put on using preset 'shape' buttons....which dont really help me at all!

The only real advice i have had is 'put the eq into a smile shape'! All well and good...but it seems to sound closer to what i want when i start moving it into a sad shape! im after any other ideas and/or explanations i can use to understand better.[/quote]
Check [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=17789&hl=smiley"]this[/url] out.
"Smiley face = instant cloaking device in a band situation" Not my quote, but I can't find who's it was...

[quote name='Mod_Machine' post='212378' date='Jun 4 2008, 11:23 AM']picking up on the niavity yet?[/quote]
We've all been there mate
Use volume for volume and eq for eq.

[johnnylager]

[quote name='dlloyd' post='212390' date='Jun 4 2008, 11:41 AM']If it's any help, Gordon Moakes uses Ashdown ABM amps, and you might be able to see his settings in this picture:[/quote]
And what looks like a fair bit of valve drive...

[Musky]

To my ears the guy out of the Departure has a far more middly sound than Bloc Party, so you're more likely to get that kind of sound with a frown eq.

There's a good chart covering instrument frequency responses at [url="http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm"]http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/re...ain_display.htm[/url]

It won't replace using your ears, but it's quite useful for figuring out how each slider is likely to affect your sound.

[Mod_Machine]

Sweet - you guys truly are the don...you have no idea how much help this is proving.
Ok assuming i now have a more mid range sound (which i have), in order to provide it a little bite im having to use the second channel. This means that the 'shape' knob comes into play..Not too bad as i can use this on top of the eq settings to indivdulize my sound a little. although any hiss is easily removed with one of the EQ sliders, can anyone advise which sliders i use and in which way to remove some of the snap and scratch i seem to be picking up - the amp compression is set at about 8 - is this impacting on it, and am i thus better getting a compression pedal and ignoring the one 'in amp'?

[Musky]

I'm not entirely sure I know what you mean by snap and scratch, but I'm guessing you're refering to handling/string noise. In which case it's the compression that's causing it - ditto the hiss.

There's a sticky on compression in the effects forum that gives a pretty good description of what's going on. Simple answer is turn it down (or off).

[Mod_Machine]

Cheers, will try later.
Dlloyd : Its for live with the band(kilto take). Its difficult to get a true representation of the sound at home because once i wack up the master volume the whole sound seems to change.
Ill try a few things out tonight during the sound check as the band are headlining the BBC introducing....beds,herts and bucks tonight, especially as i will be using the amp more as a kick back bass monitor.

And the scratchy sound is the string, fingers,nail scraping etc. Ill back off the compression and see what occurs.

[allighatt0r]

Hello Mod,

Do you listen to music on your PC? If so, maybe you should try opening up the EQ in your media player and playing around with that, see what sliders affect what part of the tone of the song, and how you would go about (for example) making a song soun crisp and bright, or upfront and barky, or soft and mellow. There are no set rules for EQ-ing, the important thing is to have a knowledge of how to make it sound the way you want. It's just one of those things you need to mess around with until you're happy, and get experience to mess around less and less each time.

I'm never totally happy with my EQ, but i am going to play with it tonight at band practice.

[Mod_Machine]

As we were headlining the bbc gig last nite, i showed up early and played around a bit with the eq settings, shape setting etc before the rest of the band arrive for sound check. I finally got something that was the happiest ive been..ever! I backed the compression back to about 5 (been playing with it at 10 coz i thought it just made the amp louder!!!???)
It was commented on by people how much more clarity the bass had during some of my runs so i was well chuffed.
We had an absolute killer gig too which topped off the night and someone even got some vid footage on a mobile of a new song. I played it back this morning through my stereo and was happy even with the clarity on that even though only on a mobile! Of course i was also running into the PA through the Hartke Di pedal so the sound engineer in the venue had done an absolutely sterling job.
The record label who want to sign us were there as well and are desperate to get us in a studio ASAP so all in all a good night!

Cheers for all the help - good idea about the pc.....will also give that a go.

Mod

[Jono Bolton]

[quote name='dlloyd' post='212390' date='Jun 4 2008, 11:41 AM']If it's any help, Gordon Moakes uses Ashdown ABM amps, and you might be able to see his settings in this picture:



Edit: He's got the input at about 10 o'clock, bass boosted very slightly (less than 1 o'clock), mids boosted to about 2 o'clock, treble at 1 o'clock, valve drive at 2 o'clock, the compression knob appears to have fallen off, but it looks like he's marked it as being off anyway, valve drive at nearly 3 o'clock and subharmonics at nearly 3 o'clock.

So, yeah... a frown shape.

I'm not sure what the box is on top of the amp.[/quote]

His EQ is almost exactly the same as mine, right down to the amount of Valve Drive, it's startling. But if he's using a Mexican bass (again, like me) then he's probably doing what I do and keep the sound bassy enough without it turning to mud.

[allighatt0r]

Hey congratulations on getting asked to sign, you'll have to keep us posted on how it all goes.

Glad you got a sound you like.

[Mod_Machine]

its definately getting there!
Kilto take had only played 8 gigs when we were asked to sign to the management company. We currently have the contract for them and are only just going over that.
Things a moving pretty quick for us as in the space of a month we have gone from playing as a support band, to having our music on local radio, then on national radio, then headlining the bbc gig, with the band we were previously supporting opening the event, to being offered a management deal, and now the record deal aswell. mayhem!

[waynepunkdude]

I used to play bass for Bloc Party, I used to use a P bass special with a Peavey amp but that was ages ago before they recorded so I'm not much help, toodles.

[thepurpleblob]

I know I keep saying this and maybe I'm being stoopid, but it occurs to me that you sound like the dude out of bloc party by hiring an expensive studio with good technicians who know their stuff. Even bloc party don't sound like bloc party live. OK... he uses an Ashdown ABM-500 and one of their 8x10 cabs but it's very unlikely that makes a jot of difference to the PA sound when you hear them live in a huge room. I don't want to sound patronising but I just think it's comparing apples with oranges.

I also suspect that getting close to that sound has more to do with technique than anything else.