Pickup Values Campared

[AngelLaHash]

I tried to ask how you measure the Values
OHMS !!
HENRYS !!

I come from DC to AC circuits and Wiring
I have used XL=2Pi x f x L
But this is a Inductor on its own 2H (it was a strat Pickup)

How do i know its any good
How can i tell if its a Fake or some thing in BLACK POTTING GLUE
or How it compares with REAL Brand Makes

[xilddx]

[quote name='AngelLaHash' timestamp='1369820533' post='2092998']
I tried to ask how you measure the Values
OHMS !!
HENRYS !!

I come from DC to AC circuits and Wiring
I have used XL=2Pi x f x L
But this is a Inductor on its own 2H (it was a strat Pickup)

[b]How do i know its any good[/b]
How can i tell if its a Fake or some thing in BLACK POTTING GLUE
or How it compares with REAL Brand Makes
[/quote]

You fit it, you play it, you decide if you love it. It is the only way, all other considerations are secondary.

I don't understand the rest of your post, sorry

[AngelLaHash]

I am wondering how to Find the Value of a Pickup.
I can put a Ohm Meter around it and get some value of the Copper within the Inductor, I Happen to have a Inductor Meter so can find the Henrys.

But i would not know the difference between a Good Branded Pickup and a cheap one from China.

I have asked this question in Two Forums now and all i get is cheeky comments.

---

So, a BLIND TEST, two pickups, No Markings on ever, but one say a Big Brand, another Cheap from China, without Wiring it all in, can you tell the Difference

---

As far as i can tell NO ONE SEEMS TO KNOW

Edited May 29, 2013 by AngelLaHash

[neepheid]

You are trying to apply logic and measurement to something that is intangible and subjective. This is impossible.

[Dave Vader]

Nope, you can find out what the resistance is, but that won't tell you which is better sadly. Only playing them can do that.

[AngelLaHash]

So what ever one is telling me.. You couldnt tell what is GOOD and a Cheap Nasty Pickup without Wiring it in and try it.

well thats scary

[Beer of the Bass]

The trouble is, quite a few aspects of pickup construction which can affect the sound can't be measured just by looking at the resistance and inductance of the coil. I have two sets of strat pickups which sound quite different but have the same DC resistance and (as far as I can tell without a micrometer) likely have the same gauge wire and approximate number of windings. The two sets sound quite different. Why? One set is scatter-wound on weaker alnico II magnets and constructed using flatwork so the inner windings are closer to the magnets, the other set is regularly wound, with alnico V magnets and a plastic bobbin which leaves a gap between the magnets and coil. The former (expensive) set is mellower sounding than the latter (cheap) set and has a different character to the highs, but to be quite honest, the cheap ones don't sound worse, just a bit different. The differences in coil winding pattern and magnetic structure would certainly be measurable with the right equipment, and there's quite a bit of discussion of this over at the ampage pickup makers forum if this is a topic that interests you.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Beer of the Bass

[xilddx]

[quote name='AngelLaHash' timestamp='1369835627' post='2093246']
So what ever one is telling me.. You couldnt tell what is GOOD and a Cheap Nasty Pickup without Wiring it in and try it.

well thats scary
[/quote]

I'm still not sure what you are after. Why do values concern you unless you need to match a pup against another in the same bass?

Of course you have to wire it in, a cheap no-name pup is not going to have any reputation you can rely on. If someone says 'what's a Wizard Thumper like?' you'll get some answers.

'Can I tell what a sh*t lookin no-name pup is going to sound like just by measuring its resistance?' is like asking what a pair of thigh boots is going to feel like by only looking at the colour.

[neepheid]

[quote name='AngelLaHash' timestamp='1369835627' post='2093246']
So what ever one is telling me.. You couldnt tell what is GOOD and a Cheap Nasty Pickup without Wiring it in and try it.

well thats scary
[/quote]


The pickups will sound different depending upon where along the string length they are installed. Different types of string will interact differently with the magnetic field surrounding the pickup. That's just two examples of other variables that the simple electrical properties of a pickup can't tell you squat about when the pickup is actually being used (i.e. played).

I don't think that's scary at all. To me, installing a pickup and playing it to see if it's any good is no different to a chef tasting the dishes he or she creates to see if they're good.

[xilddx]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1369836703' post='2093269']
[b]I don't think that's scary at all. [/b] To me, installing a pickup and playing it to see if it's any good is no different to a chef tasting the dishes he or she creates to see if they're good.
[/quote]

It might be scary to Angel if he's a bit clueless about wiring and electronics, it sort of sounds like he might be. But if he gets a wiring diagram and experiments a bit he might have some fun. I loved messing with pups and wiring and switching with a guitar I used to have, I made loads of mistakes but the sounds I got in the end were individual and interesting. Takes lots of time though.

[neepheid]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1369837073' post='2093279']
It might be scary to Angel if he's a bit clueless about wiring and electronics, it sort of sounds like he might be. But if he gets a wiring diagram and experiments a bit he might have some fun. I loved messing with pups and wiring and switching with a guitar I used to have, I made loads of mistakes but the sounds I got in the end were individual and interesting. Takes lots of time though.
[/quote]


I thought what was being found scary was my lack of ability to tell what pickups are good simply by their electrical properties.

[xilddx]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1369837396' post='2093286']
I thought what was being found scary was my lack of ability to tell what pickups are good simply by their electrical properties.
[/quote]

Ahhh, I see!

Yes, that is completely ridiculous.

[AngelLaHash]

wow .. who needs to go to brighton with HAND BAGS LIKE THIS

If i ask a Question .. WALK ON BUY GUYS .. this bitchness isnt any thing I like

[neepheid]

[quote name='AngelLaHash' timestamp='1369837584' post='2093296']
wow .. who needs to go to brighton with HAND BAGS LIKE THIS

If i ask a Question .. WALK ON BUY GUYS .. this bitchness isnt any thing I like
[/quote]


In other words, this thread hasn't panned out as you had hoped, so suddenly we're all a bunch of meanies. Nice.

[xilddx]

[quote name='AngelLaHash' timestamp='1369837584' post='2093296']
wow .. who needs to go to brighton with HAND BAGS LIKE THIS

If i ask a Question .. WALK ON BUY GUYS .. this bitchness isnt any thing I like
[/quote]

Looks like you need to measure your own resistance.

You asked a question, it's been answered. You don't like the answer which is that no, you cannot tell what a pickup will sound like without trying it, there are too many variables to measure.

[AngelLaHash]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1369837073' post='2093279']
It might be scary to Angel if he's a bit clueless about wiring and electronics, it sort of sounds like he might be. But if he gets a wiring diagram and experiments a bit he might have some fun. I loved messing with pups and wiring and switching with a guitar I used to have, I made loads of mistakes but the sounds I got in the end were individual and interesting. Takes lots of time though.
[/quote]
you dont see that as CALLING ME NAMES and SLAGGING ME OFF

[xilddx]

[quote name='AngelLaHash' timestamp='1369837997' post='2093307']
you dont see that as CALLING ME NAMES and SLAGGING ME OFF
[/quote]

No, I was saying you might be clueless about electronics, like I was and still am to a great degree, and experimenting is fun and educational.

You are obviously highly sensitive so I'll back off and leave you alone from now on.

[BassTractor]

[quote name='AngelLaHash' timestamp='1369837997' post='2093307']
you dont see that as CALLING ME NAMES and SLAGGING ME OFF
[/quote]

No, Angel. He was not calling you names. He was being considerate with your [i]possible[/i] lack of experience in the matter.

best,
bert

[AngelLaHash]

Design Tech for 3 years
done my A-levels in electronics and C&G in Electrical Installations

SO YES IS DAM INSULTING

Just never worked with INDUCTORS and the Power Supple
so I having got a Stable-ISH incoming Power

Metal .. Moving Over a Magnet, in a Normaly Copper Coil making Current

Edited May 29, 2013 by AngelLaHash

[Mr. Foxen]

A fake pickup will have no output. If it has output, then its real. I've had one bass that had pickups drawn on with pen, that was fake.

One technical factor that has no effect on a pickups sound or properties is the brand name associated with it.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Mr. Foxen

[AngelLaHash]

thank you

[BassTractor]

[quote name='AngelLaHash' timestamp='1369838407' post='2093315']
Design Tech for 3 years
done my A-levels in electronics and C&G in Electrical Installations
[/quote]


I know that, but xilddx obviously did not know, or he would not have written that.
I feel sure of the following:
He did not mean it as an insult. He meant to be considerate. I guess most people understood it like that.


b,
b

[steve-bbb]

*BY

[Dr M]

[quote name='AngelLaHash' timestamp='1369834024' post='2093211']

I have asked this question in Two Forums now and all i get is cheeky comments.

[/quote]

While I'm not suggesting that the cheeky responses are fair, if you've got the same response in multiple places, does that not suggest that the question has been answered?

[quote name='AngelLaHash' timestamp='1369838407' post='2093315']

Metal .. Moving Over a Magnet, in a Normaly Copper Coil making Current
[/quote]

That's a massive simplification. There are many, many factors that affect the sound of a pickup, and short of dedicating a thesis to the subject, you're not going to able to express good vs. bad as a simple string of numbers. If it were possible, someone would be making a fortune from it by now. To be honest, to get any idea of pickup quality without installing it and listening to the results, you will need to disassemble it. Layout of windings (even windings, over / under wound, scatter wound, etc) have quite a significant effect.

Equally, where and how it's made are not the be-all and end-all. On average, the big name pickups hand-made in the UK / US are likely to impress more people. On the other hand, I've encountered pickups from small, relatively unknown builders made using some quite weird techniques that have sounded excellent (anyone remember Swineshead?)

[Beer of the Bass]

If you're coming from another branch of electronics, looking at magnetic guitar pickups may require an adjustment in outlook as there is no single ideal to aim for. A full set of electronic, magnetic and physical measurements of the pickup could certainly give you a good idea of how high the output might be, where the resonant peak is when connected to a given impedence, whether any treble frequencies are lost to eddy currents and whether the sensing window is wide enough to cause cancellation of the higher harmonics of the string. This would put you in a good position to predict the various characteristics of the sound, or to understand why different pickups sound the way they do, but "good" or "bad" are solely in the head of the listener.
There are a great many cheaply made and haphazardly designed pickups which have become highly sought after for their particular unique sound, like Danelectro lipsticks or Teisco gold foils, so the distinction between "Good Branded" or "Cheap Crappy" is not always a useful one.