Confuzzled Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Right, long-time poster going all mysterious to protect the innocent imagine these words being spoken by an actor with a face shrouded in darkness... Without giving too much away, I'm in an originals band, going quite well (some decent supports, internet radio play in the right places etc etc). However, I find myself getting quite pissed off at a few things, and wanted (mainly) to vent and find out what experiences others have had in similar situations. 1/ The band is something of a money pit, and I'm bearing the brunt of it. Being the only single one (although also the only one with a child to support :s) in the past six months I've sprung for band banner, posters, exhaust for the van (which I own, £300), self-done plug change and service for the same (still fifty quid or so) and lost the deposit I put down on a room when the gig didn't pull enough punters in (as well as paying for the website hosting every month). We're selling enough merchandise to keep fuel in the vehicle, but in the next few months we're looking at video shoot, buying in more merch, paying for a radio plugger AND spending a good chunk on keeping the van on the road (which I fear is AGAIN going to fall solely on me, as it's my name on the V5). In short, zero social life to pay for band stuff. 2/ Wouldn't mind that too much, if it weren't for the fact that (as actually pointed out to me by a very good friend of mine a while ago) I'm totally the whipping boy of this band because I'm quite laid-back. Whilst the guys will talk each other up in company and onstage, as I'm 'just the bassist' I'm generally belittled. It's not serious (well, with two of the guys I can be pretty sure it's not serious), but it still leads to me feeling a good way below valued a good chunk of the time. 3/ To take things to the next level, we DO need to refine our live presentation (amongst other things). However, the way that this has been approached is essentially for another band member to watch back a video of a couple of performances and come out with a written list (a f***ing WRITTEN LIST!) of, essentially, stuff that I shouldn't be doing. Now, a reasonable suggestion was made to do a few rehearsals as if in front of a crowd and look at how we present ourselves, but the way it's been handled makes me feel like we're in 1 Direction or something, where every last move onstage is choreographed and any spontaneity is drilled out. Goes against every fibre of my being, but apparently this is what's got to be done... Right, rant over, and well done to anyone who got through it - thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Dude, it sounds to me like you're waiting for someone to tell you to quit. Quit. I would have done so ages ago, I have quit bands purely on the strength (well, weakness) of their live presentation. It made me feel embarrassed to be on the stage, and I worried that my reputation as a good player would be tarnished, That's without the fact that the guys are clearly taking you for a ride... If the band, music, and gigs were good and fun then I would put up with it a little. Some of the more reasonable members will tell you to call a meeting and air out all of your problems, which is probably the best thing to do. But the success of that depends on how much they respect you among other things. Again, I would just quit. Good luck whatever you do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yepmop Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Sounds to me they are ganging up on you to make you feel the weakest link and replaceable which to counteract, you need to do all the funding and other crap in fear that they will replace you? It's an awful situation that I initially experienced in an originals band I was with (I was funding studio time and stuff like that) so one day we booked a studio and I basically said "Well I've done my bit, who's turn is it now?" and was surprised that they agreed to pay for future expenses. The band should be run like a business with all profits and expenses going through the books and expenses paid out of pooled profits before being split between members? I wish you luck, not a very nice situation to be in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurksalot Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 that is a real tough one , the music you make is obviously important , as is the show you put on. I personally am in the camp that thinks some people will pay to see a pudding crawl , but your music will be something that you can hold up and offer as your legacy . If you believe that your musical output is worthy of the crap you have to take to get it heard then do it , if not take out of this the experience and move on, but I reckon serious passion in music is , ironically , what splits bands up . If not the actual song writing , arrangement or recording then the performance and promotion . it is often said that success is 10% inspiriration and 90% perspiration, the question is not whether you are up for it , I reckon you are , it is whether you are happy to share the journey when you think you may be carrying more of the load . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman Sam Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 It sounds to me like your are not being assertive enough and are being taken for a ride by your band mates. Have you tried to put your point of view across or do you let them walk all over you. The whole band should be making an equal contribution to expenses and then any profits split up. Do you have any say in the writing of the material or do they look on you as a easily replaced item. If you do not have an equal input to the band and are unhappy with this, then walk away. If you are happy to take the crap because you think it's worth it, try to at least get some money back for all your time and effort keeping this selfish lot on the road. Good luck, sounds like you need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 (edited) Point 1. Whenever any expense comes up, get a quote, then tell all band members that once you have received their transfers into your bank account, you`ll go ahead and book/buy the whatever it is. No money up front, no purchase. Point 2. As you`re laid-back, the others may well see this as a sign that you don`t need your ego boosting. However It`s probably more due to them either regarding you as "just the bassist" or being too wrapped up in themselves to even notice or regard anyone else. Point 3. Something similar happened to me years ago. In a punk band, was told I "didn`t stand/move properly on stage". Countered that with, wasn`t punk meant to be about not doing the norm. Also Guns N Roses had the hump with Izzy Stradlin for standing still at the back of the stage looking cool, when all the others ran all over the place. A band is made up of different people, with different moves. But back to your bands strategy, well if the whole band pickup on something, then it`s clearly what you all want, so I`d suggest you [u]all[/u] do as proposed, then do a list of what you like, and dislike. Any common denominators from both then look at. And make sure you have your own input heard. All that said however, I get the feeling you`re near to the end of your run with this band. I experienced something similar, and once I`d written it all down, it was clear in print why I had to go - so I did. Best thing I could have done at the time. Edited May 31, 2013 by Lozz196 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimBobTTD Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Belittling you? Take them outside, individually, and kick them in the balls. Hard. Then resign. The band is both poison and poisoned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I think you need to talk to your band. Let them know your rant, they might go "Oh, we didn't realise". As for the written list, wait & see what comes back. Don't answer t straight away other than to say "I'll review your suggestions". Take the list & if it seems unreasonable, find videos of bassists that do the same as you (preferrably famous ones) & point this out to them (or you could learn to dance whilst playing bass). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozza Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Point 1 - If you have a child to support I would have thought you'd have less money than the other members. Kids are the ultimate money pit. The rest, I assume, are DINKYs (Double Income No Kids) which would lead me to think they may have more disposable income than you rather than less. I agree with other posters that band related expenses should be split equally Point 2 - The others are clearly people who need regular ego massage. One way of doing this is to go on to each other about how great they while another is to denigrate somebody else. Is that what you think they're doing? People often don't realise how they can hurt others. They probably do it partly because they don't realise it pisses you off and partly because they can. Try pulling one of them up next time you're feeling sh*te and see what the reaction is. Point 3 - I can't add much more to what Lozz has posted. A band is made up of different personalities and I think it's that diversity that can make for a fine live experience. Were Queen crap live because John Deacon didn't headbang his way through the set? I guess you have to decide whether you think you can negotiate these problems through (or if it's even worth trying) or not. Personally, If I'm in a band playing originals, I'm doing it for fun. Once that stops, I'm out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruiner Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 (edited) Sounds like your band 'mates' are taking the piss. Put your foot down (in a calm and reasoned fashion) and if things don't change find some new people to play with. Always difficult when you've invested time/money/passion into a band, but if it's not fun anymore (for whatever reason) time to quit. Edited May 31, 2013 by Ruiner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 sounds liek a bit too [quote name='Confuzzled' timestamp='1369951255' post='2094986'] Right, long-time poster going all mysterious to protect the innocent imagine these words being spoken by an actor with a face shrouded in darkness... Without giving too much away, I'm in an originals band, going quite well (some decent supports, internet radio play in the right places etc etc). However, I find myself getting quite pissed off at a few things, and wanted (mainly) to vent and find out what experiences others have had in similar situations. 1/ The band is something of a money pit, and I'm bearing the brunt of it. Being the only single one (although also the only one with a child to support :s) in the past six months I've sprung for band banner, posters, exhaust for the van (which I own, £300), self-done plug change and service for the same (still fifty quid or so) and lost the deposit I put down on a room when the gig didn't pull enough punters in (as well as paying for the website hosting every month). We're selling enough merchandise to keep fuel in the vehicle, but in the next few months we're looking at video shoot, buying in more merch, paying for a radio plugger AND spending a good chunk on keeping the van on the road (which I fear is AGAIN going to fall solely on me, as it's my name on the V5). In short, zero social life to pay for band stuff. 2/ Wouldn't mind that too much, if it weren't for the fact that (as actually pointed out to me by a very good friend of mine a while ago) I'm totally the whipping boy of this band because I'm quite laid-back. Whilst the guys will talk each other up in company and onstage, as I'm 'just the bassist' I'm generally belittled. It's not serious (well, with two of the guys I can be pretty sure it's not serious), but it still leads to me feeling a good way below valued a good chunk of the time. 3/ To take things to the next level, we DO need to refine our live presentation (amongst other things). However, the way that this has been approached is essentially for another band member to watch back a video of a couple of performances and come out with a written list (a f***ing WRITTEN LIST!) of, essentially, stuff that I shouldn't be doing. Now, a reasonable suggestion was made to do a few rehearsals as if in front of a crowd and look at how we present ourselves, but the way it's been handled makes me feel like we're in 1 Direction or something, where every last move onstage is choreographed and any spontaneity is drilled out. Goes against every fibre of my being, but apparently this is what's got to be done... Right, rant over, and well done to anyone who got through it - thoughts? [/quote] sounds to me like the major emphasis of this bands existence is some sort of PR and Marketing sausage machine exercise perhaps - lots of emphasis on 'look at us' not so much emphasis on 'listen to us' - fine if youre glam or theatrical i guess but superfluous if you are shoegazers ? if you really want to get so involved with PR and marketing then get somebody outside the musical element of the band to handle it - they can then tell the band (as a whole) exactly what all the costs and implications are too much assumption is being placed on your van ownership - on a plus note they are contributing petrol but is there any other acknowledgmnet regarding running costs - this can be affected also by many other factors - we cant assume that all band members have similar disposable incomes or domestic circumstances and all these thigngs will significantly vary each band members personal input at face value singling you out for critical treatment by video analysis does seem a touch overbearing but then again we dont know why they have done this - is it some way of alerting you to an irritating habit that they are too embarrassed to tell you directly to your face? too much speculaltion to be able to go into specifics but as others above have suggested the only way to clarify things is to talk with them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman Steve Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 First step, establish a proper band account (not bank, spreadsheet) and start putting every expense down. You will need this to fend off HMRC when your level of exposure brings you to their attention anyway. Record the gig/merch income so you can then determine the profit - THAT is what gets split and nothing else. If they have the slightest hesitation over that you walk and don't look back. They are taking the pi$$ pure and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Vader Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 You need to talk to these people. If they know you're narked about it, they may be more understanding/helpful. If they aren't then toddle off and find better people to play with. You are a bass player with a van, you should never be without a gig (desperately trying to work out who you are btw ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lou24d53 Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Regardless of whether you choose to leave or have it out with the rest of the band, one things for certain, you DO need to deal with this or it'll eat you up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB1 Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 MB1. Seems like you need to be more vocal regarding your contribution, as your efforts aren't receiving the appreciation they deserve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderbird13 Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 [quote name='Confuzzled' timestamp='1369951255' post='2094986'] 1/ The band is something of a money pit, and I'm bearing the brunt of it.......... In short, zero social life to pay for band stuff. 2/ I'm totally the whipping boy of this band ...... it still leads to me feeling a good way below valued a good chunk of the time. 3/ . However, the way that this has been approached is essentially for another band member to watch back a video of a couple of performances and come out with a written list (a f***ing WRITTEN LIST!) of, essentially, stuff that I shouldn't be doing. .. [/quote] Do you really need an answer ???????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChick Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I too am bass player with van. Every practice I drive 20 minutes out of my way before practice to pick the PA speakers up from the keys and then another 20 mins after to drop them off. (Keys has storage space I don't). However, the keys and singer bought the PA between them and the guitarist has paid for business cards, web hosting etc. If the van broke down I would expect to pay myself as it is my van even though I use it for band (I also use it for cycling, allotment, etc etc) but equally if something went wrong with the PA I would not expect to stump up any cash. You shouldn't be expected to pay for everything though, that's taking the piss! As for ego massaging, I think the fact that you are not being critiqued is ego massaging enough as a bassist!! Ultimately we only ever get noticed if we stuff up.... No comment means we are doing exactly what we need to That said, it does sound like you are getting very frustrated, so I think you need to sit down and talk to them honestly. I'm not going to suggest you leave, I'm not going to suggest you stay, but you do need to air your grievances before things get out of hand. I wish you luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasted Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 You are Waynepunkdude and I claim my £5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime_BASS Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Dame here really I am the only one in the band with enpugh income to splurge on stuff we need whch is usually van hire. I have to be Frank though. You've been treated like a mug who will pay for everything only because you've let it happen. What kind of conversation goes down when things like banners need to be payed for, merch etc? I woud also wonder, if you don't pull in an audience at a venue, do you need stuff like; a banner, a website, merch. If you feel pressured to be the fall guy for paying for thongs, insist on taking all the cut of a gig. Sure yet turned up and played but what else have they provided, investment wise. Or lay claim to them having to pay for their share, if not taking it all down(website, adverts) . I always fall upon the old 'got no money' line, no one else should know your financial background so it shoud be easy to claim you are broke. I still stand by the notion that you've let this happen to you (admittedly by being laid back you say) Either grow a backbone or quit. But depends how much you want to stay in the band one which you'll do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Life's too short to put up with a shower of bastards like this. I would have quit well before it got to the stage you're at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 [quote name='Toasted' timestamp='1369991074' post='2095206'] You are Waynepunkdude and I claim my £5. [/quote] Wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongebob Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I think we've all been in band situations where you roll with it until you finally quit - and it's only in retrospect, you think why the flip did I put up with that for that long? My originals band fell apart a few months ago - a similarity was always being reliable, doing a lot (musically and promotion-wise) but the so-called group 'leader' never saw it, as like many of us, I just got on with it. When I did raise a good few points, it was a change of attitude...how dare you suggest this, etc. I'd already refused to put any money in a few weeks previously. The drummer was a bit of a (self-proclaimed) businessman, and could seeming do no wrong. He spent his time drawing out plans and virtual flip charts to show what we should do. Except nothing ever got done! I got to the stage when I thought 'can I really imagine or trust going any further with these people?' Answer - no. Result - I quit. They've still not sorted themselves out 3 months later. Life's too short to put up with rubbish - and in my experience, people like that won't change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurksalot Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 [quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1369992073' post='2095222'] Dame here really I am................... I have to be Frank though......... [/quote] Wow , and the OP thinks he has a problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truckstop Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I would say you should shut up and put up. Look, being in a serious band these days is a massive commitment. You need to put the money in, put the hours in, and spend a lot of effort doing things for the sake of the band. If you have faith in the music and you have faith that you'll get somewhere than it's worth persevering, right? If you sit down with these guys and say you're not happy with the way things are then you risk changing the dynamics of the group forever. You risk creating an environment where none of you are happy at all. Aside from a little criticism and financial hardship (by the way, a good piece of advice is to not buy things you can't afford) what's the big deal? Truckstop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropzone Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 My tuppence. If you're not happy, you're not happy. This could eat at you till you quit. Address it as soon as you can. Give them a copy of what you have written down. They may have some genuine expenses that offset or equal this or as you have not raised it they may have assumed you are happy to pay for things. You may also find others have issues in this time of honesty. You can only state where you are, where you want to be and what you think needs to be done to get there. Bands are like a family, full of compromise and petty disputes. Sooner they are breached sooner they are resolved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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