lobematt Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I've recently discovered that b9 is shorthand for b9 #9 #11. So is a b13 chord short hand for a chord with more extensions or is it just another way of writing +5? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Not really. A b13 would have a 5th in th associated scale whereas a +5 would not . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Glasgow Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I would tend to think of them as basically the same chord but I may decide to voice them differently. With the V7b13 I would be more inclined to put the b13 at the top of the chord to make it stand out, where as with V7+5 I would probably place the #5 lower in the voicing, so it acts as more of an inner voice. It also depends on the context too e.g. I'm generally more aware of these differences during the head of a tune as the chords will have been written with the accompaniment of the tune's melody in mind, whereas during the solos I would interpret the chords more freely. When playing a bassline these differences are less significant. With both chords I would be careful with my use of the natural 5 as it may clash with the b13/#5 particularly in the case of the V7+5 as #5 as the chordal player may place the #5 lower in the voicing. Also, I wouldn't tend to interpret these symbols as shorthand for specific scales as the other extensions may vary e.g. a chord that's labeled b9 may also contain a #9 and a #11 (altered scale) but it's also common for it to contain a natural 11 (phrygian dominant). Also, the 13th is another variable extension with a chord labeled b9, it could be natural (phrygian dominant, diminished half-whole) or it could be flat (altered scale). This same variability applies to V7b13, V7+5 or any other chord symbol. To determine what the other extensions of a given chord are or to find out what scale fits it I would tend to look for clues in the tunes melody, look at the chord's harmonic context (what chords are on either side of it?/is there a tonal centre?), and use my ears. Often you'll find that there is no single answer and just ends up being a matter of choice. I hope that's of some help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lobematt Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 Great answers, thanks guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithless Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 They're two different things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 (edited) What Bilbo said, A7 b13 also has an unaltered 5th whereas A7+5 (or#5) doesn't ps I'm thinking of the #5 in an augmented context ie a dominant 7th augmented chord. Edited June 2, 2013 by jakenewmanbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Pretty much what ther others above have said. Lobematt - A nice little site here regarding changes and scales/modes. [url="http://www.jazzcenter.org/index.htm?http://www.jazzcenter.org/cw-jrc/scales.htm"]http://www.jazzcenter.org/index.htm?http://www.jazzcenter.org/cw-jrc/scales.htm[/url] Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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