xilddx Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Interviews with loads of the band, it really good! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4Es7opmsMI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foal30 Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 don't eat the yellow coloured snow is amongst the best advice I have ever received. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowender Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Oddly enough, I don't think Zappa was ahead of his time. He was doing what Spike Jones was doing 40 years earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbaby Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Great doc., seen it before, goes into loads of detail re recording and artistes performing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 [quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1370225012' post='2097827'] Oddly enough, I don't think Zappa was ahead of his time. He was doing what Spike Jones was doing 40 years earlier. [/quote] From the point of view of the quality of the playing and the bells and whistles then you're right there's not much new in it, but to couple delivery of entertainment of that quality, with such a cutting through the crap social commentary set him apart, and elevated him, in my mind, to genius status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetaFunk Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 This thread will probably end up like the thread on the Fab Four i.e. those who love Zappa and those who don't. I expect to read all about the impact or lack of impact of Zappa's music by experts that weren't even born and therefore will have little or no idea of the impact or if they did either read it or saw someone talking about it on a BBC documentary. So i'll stick on 'Freak Out' and then go on a classical music forum and argue that Mozart wasn't ahead of his time and had little impact on the music world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowender Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 (edited) [quote name='jakenewmanbass' timestamp='1370248679' post='2097954'] From the point of view of the quality of the playing and the bells and whistles then you're right there's not much new in it, but to couple delivery of entertainment of that quality, with such a cutting through the crap social commentary set him apart, and elevated him, in my mind, to genius status. [/quote] True, Zappa was (on occasion) was making social commentary, which was very trendy at the time. (Heck -- "Eve of Destruction" was a top 10 hit in 1967. That could never happen today). But in retrospect, it was hardly genius. In fact, even back then I found his humor on the puerile side. I'm not saying this because I dislike Zappa. I think he's talented, just overrated. And I was more impressed by him when i was more impressionable. As I've grown I've come to realize a lot of what gets passed off as "too deep for the casual listener" is really just indulgent nonsense. Sure, you can score a cat walking across a piano and harmonize it for a 12 piece band and it would require a certain amount of skill to execute. But it'll still sound like a cat walking across a piano. Edited June 3, 2013 by Lowender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted June 3, 2013 Author Share Posted June 3, 2013 [quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1370260341' post='2098150'] True, Zappa was (on occasion) was making social commentary, which was very trendy at the time. (Heck -- "Eve of Destruction" was a top 10 hit. That could never happen today). But in retrospect, it was hardly genius. In fact, even back then I found his humor on the puerile side. I'm not saying this because I dislike Zappa. I think he's talented, just overrated. And I was more impressed by him when i was more impressionable. As I've grown I've come to realize a lot of what gets passed off as "too deep for the casual listener" is really just indulgent nonsense. Sure, you can score a cat walking across a piano and harmonize it for a 12 piece band and it would require a certain amount of skill to execute. But it'll still sound like a cat walking across a piano. [/quote] Do you know much about Zappa? Have you heard all periods of his catalogue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowender Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 [quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1370260480' post='2098152'] Do you know much about Zappa? Have you heard all periods of his catalogue? [/quote] Yes and yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Count me among 'those who love Zappa', but not my favourite album by a long way. [i]Uncle Meat[/i], [i]One Size Fits All[/i], and [i]Shut Up 'n play Yer Guitar[/i] spring to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted June 3, 2013 Author Share Posted June 3, 2013 [quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1370260810' post='2098160'] Yes and yes. [/quote] Good stuff. You're obviously not keen, but that does not really lend any weight to your arguments. For instance what do you mean by talented but overrated? That's just purely subjective conjecture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Not seen this, so thanks for posting the link - I'll have to have a 'butchers' when I get some down time in the house. I was just listening to 'Axis: Bold as Love' this morning and was asked to turn it off. Now I'm sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowender Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 [quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1370261136' post='2098166'] Good stuff. You're obviously not keen, but that does not really lend any weight to your arguments. For instance what do you mean by talented but overrated? That's just purely subjective conjecture. [/quote] Not being keen doesn't lend weight to my argument? That sentence is contradictory. Anyway, believe it or not, a difference of opinion than yours can still be relevant. Yes, someone can most definitely be talented and overrated. What's so hard to comprehend? I can say that "The Hangover" was a funny movie, but if I were to say it was one of the greatest movies ever made, that would be over rating it. Thus -- the difference. Get it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetaFunk Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 (edited) I have listened to all of the collected works of James Blunt just so i could tell everyone how rubbish i thought he was. Getting back to the original thread (it will of course turn into the usual Zappa is a genius / Zappa is overrated thread). Yes it's a really good documentary. Edited June 3, 2013 by BetaFunk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 [quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1370261762' post='2098181'] Not being keen doesn't lend weight to my argument? That sentence is contradictory. [/quote] No it isn't. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean that you are correct in saying that it is crap. Why do these threads always end in arguments at the moment?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetaFunk Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 [quote name='Conan' timestamp='1370264286' post='2098230'] No it isn't. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean that you are correct in saying that it is crap. [/quote] Now i'll have to go and listened to my James Blunt cds for a re-appraisal of his works. Expect a James Blunt is an underrated genius thread soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 [quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1370264693' post='2098234'] Now i'll have to go and listened to my James Blunt cds for a re-appraisal of his works. Expect a James Blunt is an underrated genius thread soon. [/quote] Stop it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetaFunk Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 [quote name='Conan' timestamp='1370266130' post='2098280'] Stop it! [/quote] Sorry........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowender Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Conan' timestamp='1370264286' post='2098230'] No it isn't. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean that you are correct in saying that it is crap. Why do these threads always end in arguments at the moment?? [/quote] I never said that. And that's not what the sentence I was referring to implies. And I wasn't making it an argument -- just stating my opinion. It's only when people have a problem with opposing opinions that there's an argument. I have no problem with what anyone else thinks about Zappa. But I will defend a personal attack. Edited June 3, 2013 by Lowender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted June 3, 2013 Author Share Posted June 3, 2013 [quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1370261762' post='2098181'] Not being keen doesn't lend weight to my argument? That sentence is contradictory. Anyway, believe it or not, a difference of opinion than yours can still be relevant. Yes, someone can most definitely be talented and overrated. What's so hard to comprehend? I can say that "The Hangover" was a funny movie, but if I were to say it was one of the greatest movies ever made, that would be over rating it. Thus -- the difference. Get it? [/quote] Why would you believe I think my opinion is the only relevant one? I don't care what you think about Frank Zappa and his music. You are the one making statements and value judgements about his music, I'm not. I love a lot of his work, I'm not particularly keen on his 'humorous' and 'sexual' music (of which there is not a great deal), I like his more orchestral works with later bands. As to his 'talent', I doubt anyone of sound mind and musical knowledge could doubt that his talent for composition and musical expression was exceptional. 'Overrated'? Overrated for what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted June 3, 2013 Author Share Posted June 3, 2013 [quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1370268189' post='2098309'] I never said that. And that's not what the sentence I was referring to implies. And I wasn't making it an argument -- just stating my opinion. It's only when people have a problem with opposing opinions that there's an argument. I have no problem with what anyone else thinks about Zappa. But I will defend a personal attack. [/quote] I think you are a rather sensitive person who is happy to make strong statements but can't handle any criticism of them, thinking they are personal attacks, so I doubt it's really worth me engaging with you on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wil Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 I think if anything he's underrated. Such a body of work, with so many surprising moments of beauty hidden away in between the grandiose, silly, and the frightening bits. I prefer his earlier stuff in general but Apostrophe has it's moments. Good morning, your highness... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowender Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 [quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1370268932' post='2098322'] I think you are a rather sensitive person who is happy to make strong statements but can't handle any criticism of them, thinking they are personal attacks, so I doubt it's really worth me engaging with you on here. [/quote] Nah, I think you just can't deal with someone disagreeing with you and showing flaws in your argument. But it's cool. No judgements here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted June 3, 2013 Author Share Posted June 3, 2013 [quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1370269913' post='2098341'] Nah, I think you just can't deal with someone disagreeing with you and showing flaws in your argument. But it's cool. No judgements here. [/quote] I haven't made any arguments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowender Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 (edited) [quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1370270704' post='2098358'] I haven't made any arguments. [/quote] My mistake. I most have misunderstood you when you said... "You are obviously not keen." "Your argument has no weight." "I doubt anyone of sound mind and knowledge would think as you do." "You can't handle criticism." (So I assume you were criticizing me for thinking as I do and for some reason, it's okay for you to do it.) "You're too sensitive." "You're making value statements." "It isn't worth engaging with you." Sounds kinda antagonistic to me, but sometimes words get misconstrued. So it could be me. Edited June 3, 2013 by Lowender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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