xilddx Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 [quote name='Wil' timestamp='1370436027' post='2100771'] Yeah, on second thoughts I have definitely sung Zappa tunes in the shower. I also forgot about "Doo-oor-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-een, don't make me wait, till tomorroooooooooow... oh no" [/quote] There you go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowender Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 [quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1370431823' post='2100661'] This is an assumption a lot of people seem to make. I have only really heard a few of their early songs, Help, Day Tripper, etc. and a few later obvious ones, Hey Jude, Yellow Sub, etc. Same deal with the Stones. I was never interested in either of those bands and they have never been a musical influence. I imagine there are plenty of people like me on here. [/quote] Okay stick with me. You never listened much to the Beatles. Fine. But you were still influenced by them! How? Because their impact was so vast. Everyone employs what they did. It would be like someone saying they never heard of Bach. It wouldn't change the fact that they play in even temperament. You can be completely unknowledgeable about jazz, but Zappa listened to jazz, therefore , it influenced you. Ignorance of the influence is irrelevant. I've heard most everything Zappa has done except for re-issues and outtakes. But if someone never heard Zappa, it probably wouldn't make much difference in the scheme of things. He wasn't as big an influence on the landscape of music. It isn't like music changed direction because of Zappa. He was an artist with his own visison. Maybe you like it , maybe you don't. That's in the ears of the listener. But the comparison to the Beatles isn't analogous. It's like comparing Rembrandt and Pollack. Which is no comparison at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earbrass Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 I've sung avante-garde opera in the shower, but only when the water suddenly runs cold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 (edited) So the Beatles were influenced by Bach, therefore Zappa was, and the New York Dolls, and GWAR, and Lenny Breau, and you and me. And that's why your theory works but is ultimately useless because none of those artists sounds anything like each other. You could equally say they were influenced by the invention of the electric guitar. In the end it doesn't really mean sh*t. What is jazz? If you mean II V I progressions, there's very little of that going on in much of Zappa's catologue. If you mean the jazz 'attitude', not much of that either. Edited June 5, 2013 by xilddx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JellyKnees Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 [quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1370435846' post='2100764'] I do the washing up and cooking with headphones on, I was singing along with a bunch of Zappa numbers last night, there are plenty you can sing along with, albeit you have to have a decent memory for lyrics, they're not exactly 'Love love me do, you know I love you, so pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease love me do. [/quote] Thank christ for that... Dangerous Kitchen is pretty good when cooking. [quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1370437412' post='2100807'] Okay stick with me. You never listened much to the Beatles. Fine. But you were still influenced by them! How? Because their impact was so vast. [/quote] Only if the bands that you listen to were themselves influenced by the Beatles. Or did they perhaps influence every musician in the world by some form of mystical osmosis??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 [quote name='JellyKnees' timestamp='1370439181' post='2100847'] Thank christ for that... Dangerous Kitchen is pretty good when cooking. [/quote] I tried Jazz Discharge Party Hats last night but although I could remember the vocal lines, I forgot the lyrics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowender Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 [quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1370438754' post='2100839'] So the Beatles were influenced by Bach, therefore Zappa was, and the New York Dolls, and GWAR, and Lenny Breau, and you and me. And that's why your theory works but is ultimately useless because none of those artists sounds anything like each other. You could equally say they were influenced by the invention of the electric guitar. In the end it doesn't really mean sh*t. What is jazz? If you mean II V I progressions, there's very little of that going on in much of Zappa's catologue. If you mean the jazz 'attitude', not much of that either. [/quote] You missed the point. Or don't understand it. Or don't want to. It's okay though. Though the II V 1 progression comparison was pretty funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 [quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1370441202' post='2100893'] You missed the point. Or don't understand it. Or don't want to. It's okay though. Though the II V 1 progression comparison was pretty funny. [/quote] What is your point? That yours and everyone else's scribblings on here are influenced by William Shakespeare, whether they are aware of it or not? That what we all eat tonight was influenced by Larousse? That our clothes are all infuenced by Charles Frederick Worth? What is funny about the II V I progression? I've never found it funny, or indeed very interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetaFunk Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 [quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1370441202' post='2100893'] Though the II V 1 progression comparison was pretty funny. [/quote] Please do expand on this. The funny bit i mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 [quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1370428215' post='2100593'] Of course the Zappa back catalogue is enormous but the official albums up to his death totalled around 45. I have over 35 of these and have listened to most of the others. Listening to 45 LPs over a period of 27 years isn't difficult. Most peoples opinions are based on these 40+ LPs and not the numerous posthumous releases so that whittles it down the essential albums. The Beatles mention is interesting though as i suppose we are all familiar with most of the Fab Four's recorded work so everyone can comment on it but if you've listened to a lot of Zappa LPs you obviously liked it in the first place. You wouldn't have heard much (if any) of Zappa's music on the radio like you would have The Beatles so you would had to make an effort to seek FZ's music out. [/quote] id be inclined to disagree slightly on the first bit only because tastes change and you ten to drift a bit and spend lots of time listening to new stuff although if id had my blinkers on then i probably would have the entire catalogue on special collectors editions etc etc but yes indeed - only remember hearing the occasional tune on radio caroline in the late 70s but nothing on mainstream commercial radio at all - whereas the beatles i remember extremley well from the age of four from all the incessant daily airplay!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earbrass Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1370441202' post='2100893'] Though the II V 1 progression comparison was pretty funny. [/quote] [quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1370441769' post='2100908'] What is funny about the II V I progression? I've never found it funny, or indeed very interesting. [/quote] [quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1370442680' post='2100929'] Please do expand on this. The funny bit i mean. [/quote] I suspect it's the idea that the II V I progression is in some way particularly characteristic of jazz - it's one of the simplest and most common progressions in western diatonic music (and therefore also common in jazz, especially the kind based on "standards"). But I could be wrong. And I'm not taking sides. In fact, I was never here. You've not seen me, right? EDIT for thread relevance: yes, the doc looks very interesting. Thanks for posting. Edited June 5, 2013 by Earbrass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetaFunk Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 The great thing about this thread is that i've played a few Zappa LPs since it has been going but i've now turned my undivided attention to another of my favourites and working my way through some of my Sun Ra LPs from the 1950s to 1990. I'm actually experiencing Arkestra overload at the moment but if anyone wants to join me in a 'Sun Ra, not influenced by Beatles shock' thread then lead on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 [quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1370450082' post='2101098'] .....if anyone wants to join me in a 'Sun Ra, not influenced by Beatles shock' thread then lead on! [/quote] Rubbish, he obviously took his name from "Here comes the Sun".... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowender Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 [quote name='Earbrass' timestamp='1370448874' post='2101070'] I suspect it's the idea that the II V I progression is in some way particularly characteristic of jazz - it's one of the simplest and most common progressions in western diatonic music (and therefore also common in jazz, especially the kind based on "standards"). But I could be wrong. And I'm not taking sides. In fact, I was never here. You've not seen me, right? EDIT for thread relevance: yes, the doc looks very interesting. Thanks for posting. [/quote] That was pretty much it. But you didn't hear it from me. : ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetaFunk Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 [quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1370450288' post='2101104'] Rubbish, he obviously took his name from "Here comes the Sun".... [/quote] Oh yeah........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamd Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 50 years ago. 50!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MewcnFl_6Y&sns=em Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetaFunk Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Also 50 years ago.......... http://youtu.be/pRp2ipjYhz0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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