Boys and their toys?

[mickster]

Let me start by saying that I'm v much a newbie bass player & BCer - tbh I have so little talent it's frightening, but I do love this old low-end lark & after all they tell me it's all about the journey, n'est ce pas?

One thing I've noticed in my 12mths on BC, is that some people have a really strong over-identification with a particular brand of bass (I'm writing this very much with the current RIC thread in mind, but it applies to other brands (eg Musicman, Fender)) as well.

I've genuinely been quite surprised at how common this is, and how personally some people seem to identify with a particular brand / manufacturer. Some people seem to be really insulted if another poster points out a perceived flaw with their favourite bass!

Is this just a 'blokes with their toys' thing? I'm a photograher by trade, and you get a bit of this on some camera geek forums, where owners of (usually) v expensive cameras get a bit tribal about their kit. Not sure if its related, but these blokes (and it is almost always a bloke) also often seem to be the ones who only post pictures of their cats / dogs / children on the beach etc, and their photos in the main are, frankly, quite often bobbins. But compared to the photog world, the bass world seems to be much worse for this. People can get really arsey if you criticise any aspect of their brand of bass, and seem to take it as a deep personal insult.

Or is this a sign of our times, a sign that marketing folk who have long championed 'The Brand' - even over the product itself - have esentially succeeded in getting folk to strongly identify themselves with a particular brand. Is this like the Apple fanboys, where people have been brainwashed into loving a brand so much that they become blind to a brands faults and their very egos are threatened if that brand is criticised? Hell, I love my Precisions but I feel no particular need to defend Fender in everything they do...

I guess i'm just saying that I'm a little surprised at the strength of this in the word of bass players / musicians. I expected this world to be much more full of creative slacker types who get really really passionate about which is the best Fall album or whether Soft Machine actually got better after Hugh Hopper was replaced by Ken Bebbington etc. After all, isn't it ultimately all about the music more than the tools? You don't tend to see painters arguing to the death about who makes the best sable brushes.

Obviously, BC is still a wonderfully eclectic place which doesn't only feature debates about equipment geekery - I've discovered some wonderful new bands on here already (Urb's Rae Forest Project and the aforementioned Softs ouevre being the latest), and I'd pay a membership fee just to read some of Silldx's regular philosophical musings / thought-arousing provocations…

Anyway, just a observation I guess from a relative newcomer to this amazing community of bass players

Edited June 6, 2013 by mickster

[ubassman]

I guess its like all things - you get to trust a brand and stick with it when it performs for you.

[Cat Burrito]

[quote name='mickster' timestamp='1370532520' post='2102324'] I love my Precisions but I feel no particular need to defend Fender in everything they do...[/quote]

I'm sure most of us feel the same way about our gear. I've played for over 25yrs, tried other basses and keep coming back to Fender. I'll probably always play Fender but reserve the right to change to Hofner for no reason other than a change. Fender occasionally get knocked on here but more so praised. They don't endorse me (been offered by 3 other companies) and we owe each other nothing. I just like them. Playing the 70s ones which all to often get knocked for weight I do wonder how much experience some people have with them when they post. It doesn't really matter.

I can think of a bunch of kit that is not for me but I don't feel the need to post all the time to confirm I don't like headless basses or state whether I'm a particular fan of Warwick or not.

Everyone's got an opinion and ultimately it's a forum. I'm sure 99% of us take all opinons with a pinch of salt. A lot of the people I don't agree with on Fender actually make a lot of opinions on other subjects that mirror mine. As the tune goes, "it's only rock 'n' roll". Long may the banter continue.

[Count Bassy]

Go away Mickster ......

You're far to sensible for this place.

[thisnameistaken]

I call it 'Proud Owner Syndrome' (appropriately abbreviates to 'POS') wherein a consumer, having parted with a lot of money, is satisfied beyond all logic that what they have bought is much better than anything else they could have bought.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='mickster' timestamp='1370532520' post='2102324']
I love my Precisions but I feel no particular need to defend Fender in everything they do...
[/quote]
I don't recall anyone defending Fender in everything they do. What usually seems to happen is that someone merely says "I like Precisions they do everything I want
them to do" - or something similar ...

[quote name='mickster' timestamp='1370532520' post='2102324']
People can get really arsey if you criticise any aspect of their brand of bass, and seem to take it as a deep personal insult.
[/quote]
... and then what happens next is someone gets arsey because they don't like something about Fenders.

You could replace 'Fender' with 'Beatles' and much the same would apply.

[Jellyfish]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1370534644' post='2102365']
I call it 'Proud Owner Syndrome' (appropriately abbreviates to 'POS') wherein a consumer, having parted with a lot of money, is satisfied beyond all logic that what they have bought is much better than anything else they could have bought.
[/quote]

I'd like to think that this doesn't happen too much, but rather that those people have POS () just tend to stand out. I'd like to think that the majority of people on here have tried out as many basses as they could before making a purchase.

Also, you have to consider that there is the way we use the instrument. I bought my Dingwall Combustion brand new, so at full price. I could have gotten something truly amazing for that sort of money, but I fell for the Dingwall that I'd picked up and played. I don't doubt that a used bass would have been better, and I'd never talk competing products down, but for whatever reason the Dingwall Combustion sounded and felt best for my playing style.

I think a proper example of what mickster is talking about is some of the crazy 'off-the-shelf' prices of some bass guitars when compared with a custom UK builder. Why would you not go to someone with specifications of exactly what you want for the same money and get a much nicer bass?

[seashell]

There is a certain lady on BC who has rather a liking for a certain brand.
She might be along to bit you in a minute, lol!

(It's not me by the way. The reason I prefer my Fender P to my Ibanez is simply because it's got fewer knobs on. I'm a bit low tech)

[ubassman]

In the main we don't have brand loyalty in the world of double bass playing - its all a matter of sound and set up ( which is arguably the way it should be for all basses ). But definitely when we buy a bass we have Proud Owners Syndrome for sure till we hear someone who's bass has just that nicer sound !

[mickster]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1370534904' post='2102371']
I don't recall anyone defending Fender in everything they do. What usually seems to happen is that someone merely says "I like Precisions they do everything I want
them to do" - or something similar ...


... and then what happens next is someone gets arsey because they don't like something about Fenders.

You could replace 'Fender' with 'Beatles' and much the same would apply.
[/quote]

The Fender mention was just an example, of course. I think my point is more that I'm surprised at just how much people take someone dissing their preferred bass brand as a personal attack on them...it's this mis-identification with a corporate brand that I find weird. It's a sort of fetish.

As to the merits or otherwise of the Fab Four - now that's something that I *do* think is worth arguing about

Edited June 6, 2013 by mickster

[Lynottfan]

I love my Musicman Stingray, and I admit to being rather loyal to EBMM, but I also don't have blinkers on, its all to do with other peoples likes and dislikes, some do seem to take it more personally that others, and as long as it doesn't get insulting it makes for interesting forum reading

Edited June 6, 2013 by Lynottfan

[Grangur]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1370534644' post='2102365']
I call it 'Proud Owner Syndrome' (appropriately abbreviates to 'POS') wherein a consumer, having parted with a lot of money, is satisfied beyond all logic that what they have bought is much better than anything else they could have bought.
[/quote] +1
Have you ever watched a review of a bass on Youtube and heard the player say "It's ok, but not for me. I'm getting shot of it."

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='Jellyfish' timestamp='1370535663' post='2102386'] Why would you not go to someone with specifications of exactly what you want for the same money and get a much nicer bass?
[/quote]

I don't think most people know exactly what they want, or no luthier can deliver it, judging by the number of bespoke basses that go up for sale used. I think it's a lot more sensible to go play a load of basses and pick one -at least you know what you're getting.

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='mickster' timestamp='1370532520' post='2102324']
I expected this world to be much more full of creative slacker types who get really really passionate about which is the best Fall album or whether Soft Machine actually got better after Hugh Hopper was replaced by Ken Bebbington etc.
[/quote]

The Hugh Hopper/Robert Wyatt era of Soft Machine is clearly the best IMO, though the first album with Kevin Ayers is not without its charms. Have I missed the point of this thread or what?

[Zenitram]

This thread's all right but it's not as good as other threads on the subject, which are loads better.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='mickster' timestamp='1370536639' post='2102405']
The Fender mention was just an example, of course. I think my point is more that I'm surprised at just how much people take someone dissing their preferred bass brand as a personal attack on them...it's this mis-identification with a corporate brand that I find weird. It's a sort of fetish.
[/quote]
But what I'm saying is that the fetish is very often from the other side, it's a kind of anti-fetish - 'oh no, how can you possibly like Fenders (or Beatles or whatever) when it's so obvious they are sh*t'.

People are sensitive about what they don't like just as much as about what they do like.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Jellyfish' timestamp='1370535663' post='2102386']
I think a proper example of what mickster is talking about is some of the crazy 'off-the-shelf' prices of some bass guitars when compared with a custom UK builder. Why would you not go to someone with specifications of exactly what you want for the same money and get a much nicer bass?
[/quote]
I'd be extremely uncomfortable with the very idea of having a bass custom built. I'd feel the same about having a car or house custom built. It just sounds like something poncey people with more money that sense do. No offence intended here although I'm sure it must be offensive to some people. Anyway I'd probably be saying "hello Mr Custom Builder can you build me one just like this Fender Precision which is already as nice as I want it to be?"

Mind you, I also wouldn't pay crazy off-the-shelf prices.

[lonestar]

http://www.eastlife.co.uk/boys-toys-essex

We were asked to play here but couldn't due to staff holidays

[TheGreek]

...my Dad's better'n your Dad...he's a Fireman and a Policeman and he could beat your Dad up....

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='TheGreek' timestamp='1370541016' post='2102463']
...my Dad's better'n your Dad...he's a Fireman and a Policeman and he could beat your Dad up....
[/quote]
Dad's are rubbish, you'd be better off with a Mum.

[Dingus]

[quote name='mickster' timestamp='1370532520' post='2102324']
Let me start by saying that I'm v much a newbie bass player & BCer - tbh I have so little talent it's frightening, but I do love this old low-end lark & after all they tell me it's all about the journey, n'est ce pas?

One thing I've noticed in my 12mths on BC, is that some people have a really strong over-identification with a particular brand of bass (I'm writing this very much with the current RIC thread in mind, but it applies to other brands (eg Musicman, Fender)) as well.

I've genuinely been quite surprised at how common this is, and how personally some people seem to identify with a particular brand / manufacturer. Some people seem to be really insulted if another poster points out a perceived flaw with their favourite bass!

Is this just a 'blokes with their toys' thing? I'm a photograher by trade, and you get a bit of this on some camera geek forums, where owners of (usually) v expensive cameras get a bit tribal about their kit. Not sure if its related, but these blokes (and it is almost always a bloke) also often seem to be the ones who only post pictures of their cats / dogs / children on the beach etc, and their photos in the main are, frankly, quite often bobbins. But compared to the photog world, the bass world seems to be much worse for this. People can get really arsey if you criticise any aspect of their brand of bass, and seem to take it as a deep personal insult.

Or is this a sign of our times, a sign that marketing folk who have long championed 'The Brand' - even over the product itself - have esentially succeeded in getting folk to strongly identify themselves with a particular brand. Is this like the Apple fanboys, where people have been brainwashed into loving a brand so much that they become blind to a brands faults and their very egos are threatened if that brand is criticised? Hell, I love my Precisions but I feel no particular need to defend Fender in everything they do...

I guess i'm just saying that I'm a little surprised at the strength of this in the word of bass players / musicians. I expected this world to be much more full of creative slacker types who get really really passionate about which is the best Fall album or whether Soft Machine actually got better after Hugh Hopper was replaced by Ken Bebbington etc. After all, isn't it ultimately all about the music more than the tools? You don't tend to see painters arguing to the death about who makes the best sable brushes.

Obviously, BC is still a wonderfully eclectic place which doesn't only feature debates about equipment geekery - I've discovered some wonderful new bands on here already (Urb's Rae Forest Project and the aforementioned Softs ouevre being the latest), and I'd pay a membership fee just to read some of Silldx's regular philosophical musings / thought-arousing provocations…

Anyway, just a observation I guess from a relative newcomer to this amazing community of bass players
[/quote]

With basses as with photography , the people who focus on the equipment to a fetishitic degree are usually amateur enthusiasts , whereas to professionals the equipment is mostly just tools of the trade to make money with . There is nothing wrong with being interested in equipment - people who are may or may not also know how to use it to make music or to take photographs with - but it is a slightly different passion than the purely artistic and creative . The fact is that it is much easier to focus on external problems with equipment than it is to get down to the crux of most people's problems , namely how to use the equipment more skillfully . Buying a new bass is a lot easier to focus your energies on than learning how to play the one you already have properly . I'm as interested in gear as the next person , probably more so , but I have learnt through experience a long time ago that a far greater sense of satisfaction comes from being able to play well than from aquiring any new toys .

[mickster]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1370541897' post='2102475']
With basses as with photography , the people who focus on the equipment to a fetishitic degree are usually amateur enthusiasts , whereas to professionals the equipment is mostly just tools of the trade to make money with . There is nothing wrong with being interested in equipment - people who are may or may not also know how to use it to make music or to take photographs with - but it is a slightly different passion than the purely artistic and creative .
[/quote]

I think you're spot on, Dingus. Being into music is a slightly different passion to being into basses or a particular brand of bass. I guess I was assuming that most people woud be more into the former than the latter. And of course, the two aren't mutually incompatible...

[SpaceChick]

[quote name='seashell' timestamp='1370536147' post='2102399']
There is a certain lady on BC who has rather a liking for a certain brand.
She might be along to bit you in a minute, lol!

(It's not me by the way. The reason I prefer my Fender P to my Ibanez is simply because it's got fewer knobs on. I'm a bit low tech)
[/quote]

You called?

Yep, I'm an Ibanez whore me

In fairness, I never set out to be, but I find they really suit me..... The slim neck, the shape, the balance, the amazing tone for a low price... All perfect for my girlie playing. I have 3 of them now

So I don't think it's just a "boys and toys" thing

[Lfalex v1.1]

Er....
I might be an exception!
Man-cave currently occupied by me, Fender, Warwick & NS CR5.
Cased elsewhere:
Status
Yamaha
Vigier
Westone
Hohner

Also owned:
Ibanez
Ovation
OLP
Musicman
Iceni

I wouldn't consider myself that partisan at all.
If I'm in the market to buy, I'll try as much as I can get hold of. I don't really care for colours/designs or brand names that much.
I'm more concerned about how a bass feels, plays and sounds than which company produced it.

[steve-bbb]

mr mickster i hope you didnt buy that nikon rubbish did you? should have gone for canon mate