What the f*** was PUNK?

[Bilbo]

Weather Report did a tune called Punk Jazz...

[Green Alsatian]

I was only a kid when it kicked off, but I do remember seeing gangs of punks in town in Liverpool in the late 70s. I'd often see them in the 'Punch & Judy' cafe which used to be outside Lime Street Station. Wasn't aware of Eric's, but my old man was - he was in his late 20s then and at home, he'd play Beatles, Motown, Soul, Beach Boys - mostly 60s music. He hated all prog and disco, but did like the first wave of punk bands and the pub-rock bands dragged into it - Pistols, Clash, The Jam, The Stranglers.

Being into my 'evvy metal in the late 80s/early 90s, it wasn't until a new wave compilation came out called Sound of the Suburbs which had some of the more radio friendly songs from that era, but it was enough to expand my music collection into as many punk bands I could get hold of. Some were sh*te, but most of it was either superb, or at least pretty decent musically or lyrically. The main ones that really struck a chord (pun intended) were the Pistols, The Clash, The Damned, The Buzzcocks, The Exploited, The Adverts, and although not strictly punk, XTC, The Jam and The Stranglers, all of whom I still listen to today.

Although the metal I'd been listening to up to that point was more aggressive musically, the punk stuff had far more attitude and sang about subjects that often wouldn't equate to 'polite conversation'. I could relate to a lot of what the punk bands were singing about. One thing's certain though - a lot of the punks went on to bigger and better things. XTC, the development of the Clash, The Jam, The Stranglers, Magazine, to name but a few.

Waffling aside, Punk to me was always giving the youth of the time a voice in music and that you didn't need to be a technically proficient player in order to start broadcasting that message. Doesn't have to be jagged guitars either - one of the most 'punk' songs I can think of is 'The Message' by Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five.

[geoffbyrne]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1370656941' post='2104139']
Actually, it was a pure marketing scheme -- supposedly a rebellion against the ever increasing pomposity of rock music and bringing it back to the "street musicians." Any idiot with a guitar and an attitude could play it. And the critics decided who was "important."

Having said that, The Sex Pistols had a couple of good songs.
[/quote]

This.

Real punk (i.e. New York Punk as mentioned above) was hijacked by Malcolm McLaren & Vivienne Westwood who used it (& the rebellion associated with it) to sell a bundle of cheap trashy clothes - particularly tartan stuff, which didn't really ring true up here - but made them very rich & the poor herd of sods who were buying the stuff thought they were registering their own uniqueness.

G.

[rogerstodge]

[quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1370682449' post='2104272']
Musically speaking, punk was the worst thing to happen. There was a handful of decent records from so called punk bands, but mostly it was drivel.
Personally, I had/have no interest in 'music' created by anyone who barely knows how to hold a guitar or a pair of drum sticks.
Of course, 'attitude' is important in music, but when that's all there is... then, no thanks!
[/quote]i'm trying to think of a bad punk rock drummer.. But i can't

[Adrenochrome]

Ha ha, my first musical memories! I was young so my only exposure to the mid/late 70s scene was TV and radio. I very much identify with the DIY ethic, and it not being about having expensive gear or moving in the correct social circles. I was never part of the scene as I was a nipper but I happily followed the progression through bands like The Damned, Buzzcocks, Joy Division, Siouxsie then into Sisters Of Mercy etc etc. I've picked up on bands like Magazine and the US scene after the event really.

[RhysP]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1370685837' post='2104327']
As i'm a bit out of touch with yoof culture how do they show their disaffection nowadays..
[/quote]
They just put a frowny face on their Facebook Status.

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1370689601' post='2104384']
They just put a frowny face on their Facebook Status.
[/quote]

[RhysP]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1370690269' post='2104399']

[/quote]
That's it - instant disaffected youth.

(Most of the youth where I live need disinfecting.....)

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1370691091' post='2104418']
That's it - instant disaffected youth.

(Most of the youth where I live need disinfecting.....)
[/quote]
Seriously though what do the disaffected yoof do nowadays?

Surely they don't all go and sit in the darkened gloom that is Hollister?

[Billy Apple]

I reckon that John Hall is pretty punk..

And he don't care!

[winterfire666]

[quote name='Schnozzalee' timestamp='1370653647' post='2104117']
The poor quality music that ruined rock...who said that??
[/quote]

couldnt agree more

[Dingus]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1370652657' post='2104109']
I've never been sure. L[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]ady xilddx was a punk in the days when it kicked off in London in the '70s. I just asked her opinion on this and she said punks revelled in shallowness and never took themselves seriously. [/font][/color]
[/quote]

My abiding memory of the punk movement is that it may or may not have started with people spontaneously reacting to the state of post -industrial Britain in the mid-1970's , but it ended up with gangs of people who should have been old enough to know better spending Saturday afternoons sitting on benches and in parks in town centres across Britain drinking bottles of cider and tryiing to look shocking to passers by . For the most part , it was far more an exercise in fancy dress than a musical or sociological phenomena .

[Dingus]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1370685837' post='2104327']

As i'm a bit out of touch with yoof culture how do they show their disaffection nowadays.

.
[/quote]

By stabbing each other , from what I see in the news .

[TimR]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1370684703' post='2104305']
It was just another way of a generation of disaffected yoof to say saying 'F*** you'!

We all did it one way or another.
[/quote]

'disaffected' - that's just another way of saying normal teenager. Although obviously now the term teenager isn't very PC, they all should be called young person and their opinions and values be given great weight in deciding how society should advance...

LOL.

Indeed just another form of rebelling against their parents telling them to be home by 10 o'clock and wear something a bit smarter...

[JapanAxe]

Read [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Englands-Dreaming-Jon-Savage/dp/0571227201/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1370694110&sr=8-1&keywords=england%27s+dreaming"]this[/url]. Nuff said

[Highfox]

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1370694152' post='2104469']
Read [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Englands-Dreaming-Jon-Savage/dp/0571227201/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1370694110&sr=8-1&keywords=england%27s+dreaming"]this[/url]. Nuff said
[/quote]

It was better living thru it lol.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1370684703' post='2104305']
It was just another way of a generation of disaffected yoof to say saying 'F*** you'!

We all did it one way or another.
[/quote]

Yep, that's my take on punk as well. it followed the well-trodden path of mods, rockers, teddy boys, hippies, skinheads, goths, emos, whatever. And like all fashionable things it flowered briefly and then died when its participants grew up and something different came along for the next 'yoof' generation to join in with.

C'est la via.

[SteveK]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1370684703' post='2104305']
It was just another way of a generation of disaffected yoof to say saying 'F*** you'!

We all did it one way or another.
[/quote]
The difference being that other subcultures adopted already existing musical genres. Punk was pretty much the only fad, genre (call it what you will) that created its own music... or more accurately, its own attitude towards music, whereby it was an advantage to be crap at playing it. And possibly worse, it was de rigueur to slag off anyone considered to have a modicum of actual talent. Unfortunately record companies and the like, being band-wagon jumpers, bought it hook line and sinker.

[Chris2112]

Well, it wasn't very good.

[keeponehandloose]

it was a way of regaining the music that the youth thought had been hijacked by all the pomp and up its iwn arsed ness of 70s rock
". you aint no good coz you dont have a Marshall stack and Les Paul"
It was a Diy ethic that went from music to clothes.
Ignore all the nay sayers and do it outside their rules....maaaannnn.
Didnt last long in that form though

[RhysP]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1370691631' post='2104434']
Seriously though what do the disaffected yoof do nowadays?

Surely they don't all go and sit in the darkened gloom that is Hollister?
[/quote]
I think that's it really - they're all too materialistic & money grabbing to give a f*** about anything else.
(Obviously that's a generalisation, but certainly the only thing the majority of them seem to do in Cardiff is shop & hang out in expensive coffee emporiums where they text each other instead of actually talking).

[Billy Apple]

Punk changed everything.

[JellyKnees]

It was a kick up the arse for a turgid rock music scene - all those dire metal, prog and aor 70s bands that were still around peddling all that tired overblown rubbish. It was an exercise in back to basics simplicity. A lot of it was crap but it served a necessary purpose. Most of the music I enjoyed as a teenager in the late 70s/early 80s wasn't actually punk, but it probably wouldn't have happened without it.

[ezbass]

A marketing exercise.

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1370701510' post='2104615']
I think that's it really - they're all too materialistic & money grabbing to give a f*** about anything else.
(Obviously that's a generalisation, but certainly the only thing the majority of them seem to do in Cardiff is shop & hang out in expensive coffee emporiums where they text each other instead of actually talking).
[/quote]
I don't moan about the 'youth of today' because i still remember what it was like top be young but a few years ago i asked some lads who had just left school that i worked with why generally people don't go on marches and protests like their age group did in the 60s and 70s. They just looked blank and said 'why would be? we've got everything we want. we've got our cars and iphones and all the toys we want'. I suppose that sums it up and it will only change when they can't have all those things. The trouble is that those days may be just around the corner so we'll have to wait and see.