Jonnyboy Rotten Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1370969953' post='2108115'] With all due respect, £600 is not high-end and neither are U.S Fenders. I'd say a hi-end bass is £2000 starting... but that is not to say they will be the be-all and end-all even then. [/quote] I would agree with you. I was only mentioning the £600 bracket because as I was wanting to spend £200-300 - there wasn't any point in trying anything more than that. It was simply to give me a flavour for what there was in and around my price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mushers Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 (edited) ive owned some cheap bass's one being a ibanez gsr my first fiver which i parted in for an sr505, there was great divide between these 2 instruments in every way. since the sr i have been spending a bit more each time i buy a bass, last year i bought a ray 35 and thought this is as good as it gets i have since bought a bongo and realise i was very wrong. i guess if its a p/jazz sound and feel your after and the cheaper models have that then why pay more for it ? i cant see me ever spending over 2k tho ..well not unless i move some on to pay for it Edited June 12, 2013 by mushers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gust0o Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1370969953' post='2108115'] I'd say a hi-end bass is £2000 starting... but that is not to say they will be the be-all and end-all even then. [/quote] Possibly even a little bit higher, to my own thinking. You could throw in a whole load of other descriptions, too: boutique, custom, etc. I'd always imagined a Sadowsky, Alleva, and those of that ilk as being "high-end", along with a whole sweep of the custom builds from Ritter, et al. Not sure how a Ritter would sit in the mix with my rock band, mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 The thing to remember with custom builds is that you pay a hefty premium for the "custom" bit. A large part of the fee you pay goes into making something specific to your requirements, not necessarily on improving the "quality" of the finished piece. Yes, you expect it to be good quality, but not all of the price difference between an off-the-shelf model and a custom model is spent on "quality", if you see what I mean. Personally, I'd love to try some really high-end basses (£2k +) and see how good they are. My Yamaha TRB feels like a fantastic instrument, I'd love to know what discernable differences there are on a really expensive bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ead Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Very interesting thread, really enjoying reading all the views. I've been fortunate to have owned a number of basses ranging in price from £60 up to my ACG custom fretless that was a little over £1,500. My experience has been that whilst all the fretted basses I have owned have been solidly under £500, my fretless basses have ranged from my first, a £70 RBX270F, upto the ACG. With the fretless basses it seems to me that the sound (tone) is more closely related to the qulity of the construction and materials. After the RBX I've had a MIJ Fender J (the most disappointing), a VIntage V1004, and a Jon Letts bass bought for a very reasonable sum. Each has had good and bad points, but as the construction 'quality' of the instruments, in particular the 'board and the stiffness and fit of the neck, improved the basses have sounded better to my ears at any rate. I appreciate quality is hugely subjective and the 'fit for purpose' label is as good as any, but for me the attention to detail moving away from mass manufactured instruments does make a difference. I suppose the other point in this is are we all comparing apples with apples? Is an older bass that may have been more expensive at birth and that has been sold on a few times until it qualifies as a 'cheap' bass, a fair comparison with a new more costly instrument. Should we benchmark all comparisons based on RRP when new adjusted for inflation? By way of an example my very first bass was a Squier P bought new for around £270. Seemed OK at the time and served to learn on. I later acquired a second hand (as in nearly new for the same money) Spector Legend which completely shifted my perspective on playablility and sound. When I was trying out the 5 string thing I bought an old Yamaha BBN5 for just north of £100 and that seemed like an excellent bass, but I have decided to stick with 4 strings. Just my thoughts really. Still loving my £110 Antoria Jazz though. It sits on the stand and gets noodled pretty much every day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ead Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 [quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1371047000' post='2109060'] The thing to remember with custom builds is that you pay a hefty premium for the "custom" bit. A large part of the fee you pay goes into making something specific to your requirements, not necessarily on improving the "quality" of the finished piece. Yes, you expect it to be good quality, but not all of the price difference between an off-the-shelf model and a custom model is spent on "quality", if you see what I mean. [/quote] I'm not sure that I entirely agree with that. Yes I'm certain that the exclusivity (or whatever you choose to call it) forms part of the price, but I also think that the cost is related to the time and effort spent on the fit and finish of the bass. Luthiers will not be buying the quantity of parts that the mass manufactures do and will be buying higher quality raw materials too both of which will be reflected in the costs. Many of the hardware manufacturers have price points that lower dramatically at certain order values/quantities and these will never come into play for the small builders. There will also be the issue of financing the stock of woods that allows them to be thoroughly dry before use, and even allowing weeks for items like the neck to stabilise after the timber has been cut. None of the big manufacturers could cope with the quantity and cost of work in progress if the manufacturing time was measured in months not hours. At this point I will declare an interest as an ACG owned and fan, but I would urge you to compare one of Alan's Graft basses costing c. £800 with an MIA Fender probably costing the same if not more... All IMHO of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 (edited) [quote name='ead' timestamp='1371109290' post='2109797'] [b]Luthiers will not be buying the quantity of parts that the mass manufactures do[/b] and will be buying higher quality raw materials too both of which will be reflected in the costs. [b] Many of the hardware manufacturers have price points that lower dramatically at certain order values/quantities and these will never come into play for the small builders.[/b] There will also be the issue of financing the stock of woods that allows them to be thoroughly dry before use, and even allowing weeks for items like the neck to stabilise after the timber has been cut. [/quote] Well those two points agree with what I was saying! Simple economies of scale mean that anything "custom" or "boutique" tends to be more expensive, and thats before you consider quality. If every single ACG bass was exactly the same then they could make the basses a bit cheaper, but without compromising on quality. I'm not saying its a general rule, but its just something to remember. PS I'd love a custom ACG by the way Edited June 13, 2013 by uncle psychosis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earbrass Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 (edited) As I've posted many times before in similar threads, my only bass is a s/h Peavey Milestone III that cost me £50. It's light, well balanced, has a great neck and sounds pretty much the same as a Jazz (I had a (Japanese) Fender and got rid, as it was no better). Edited June 13, 2013 by Earbrass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsmedunc Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 I've recently reached the same conclusion. I've always had Fenders etc but some of the factories now are making excellent basses for that little money I cant understand how they function? Gear wise, the last gig we played (Strummercamp) one guitarist used a Carlsbro Stingray Lead 30 (£20 off ebay) the other a Linebacker (£21 off ebay) and I used a Redsub BT5110 that I got for £80 off ebay. £121 for our backline! I would have died of shame 10 years ago. Its all in the ears and not the pocket! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2004gdavi Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 My first bass cost me £15 and though it was a bit nasty I sort of wish I still have it. I now play some high end stuff, Alembic and Wal, but have found reasonable performance from a Squire precision special and even a Ministar bass. At the end of the day its down to personal preferrence and how you choose to spend your money. Having said that the only way you'll take my Wal from me is out of my cold dead hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 I've found that P bass copies sounds pretty decent...seems hard to get that wrong apart from being really heavy, not so great to look at, and dodgy setup. Musicman copies are awful. Been there years ago...gross. Cheap jazz basses tend to suffer from a thin tone, from what I've experienced. This is just my experiences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigman Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Developed a [i]need [/i]to have a satin nitro finished neck....I can't play shiny necks anymore - they just feel wrong. Satin nitro finished necks don't come with cheap basses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHW Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Coming back to bass as a main instrument after several years on guitar and having to steal a bass from my daughter- I was pleasantly surprised at the sound that comes out of her Epi EB0, It's nice enough to play and I've always received good feedback on the tone. I still desparately want to spend the very high 3 figures or early 4 figures on a bass though- I just cannot afford that kind of outlay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fumps Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 I play an Ibanez SR300 as my main bass & I think for the £260 ish that I paid for it I got a real beast of a bass guitar, it feels fantastic, plays smoothly & the sounds I can get out of it are just beautiful. Since buying it I've never gassed for another bass. I have got what I need from a bass & I cannot say more than that really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Vader Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 [quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1371127493' post='2110135'] Developed a [i]need [/i]to have a satin nitro finished neck....I can't play shiny necks anymore - they just feel wrong. Satin nitro finished necks don't come with cheap basses. [/quote] Yeah, but for 15 quid a can, and a bit of sandpaper, you can do that particular mod, incredibly easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afterimage Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 [quote name='Talon' timestamp='1370772658' post='2105254'] My main Bass is now a Squier VM Jazz...totally stock. Fantastic Instrument once set up properly....and the Squier Logo stays, no gear snobbery here [/quote] played two squiers in shops very impressed with them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRBboy Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 [quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1371131254' post='2110205'] Yeah, but for 15 quid a can, and a bit of sandpaper, you can do that particular mod, incredibly easily. [/quote] Personally, I wouldn't even bother with the can! Any cheap basses I've had in the last few years that suffer shiny/sticky neck syndrome get a light but even rub down with 1200 grit paper. Goodbye stickiness, hello silky smooth! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telebass Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Having now got two acoustic basses to compare, I have to agree that cheaper can be as good, if not better. The (shiny) neck on the Kingman is a joy to play, and the electronics are good. The acosutic sound is a bit of a joke, amplified, pretty good. The Warwick Alien is in a completely differrent league in terms on construction. yet the (not shiny) neck feels no better, and the amplified sound is little different. Acoustically, it out-performs the Fender, no problem. But there certainly isn't £1000-plus difference, no way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Savage Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 [quote name='Telebass' timestamp='1371218931' post='2111358'] ... yet the (not shiny) neck feels no better, and the amplified sound is little different. Acoustically, it out-performs the Fender, no problem. But there certainly isn't £1000-plus difference, no way. [/quote] I guess that's the thing these days; with almost everyone using CNC for making necks and bodies there's little room for improvement in terms of fit and finish, what matters now more and more is the quality of the woods used and the quality of construction / set-up. Which I guess is where Far Eastern semi-skilled labour comes in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 The latest cheap as chips or shoudn't that be 'cheap as the batter bits bit they give you at the chippy what with chips costing £1.50 a portion' bass into the house hold, plays great, sounds great, looks erm, interesting whats not to like.....and I couldn't see myself Peppa Pig'in up my old Fender or letting a 2 year old strum away on it...total cost £46.99 delivered. She's not too bad.....I just wish she used two fingers rather than JJ 'hook' technique Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassTractor Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 At least Peppa Pig'in' is lots better than fake roadwearing. Luvverly pic, but don't forget to tell her to forget one-finger-one-fret till she's at least three and a half. best, bert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime_BASS Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 [quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1371114882' post='2109894'] Well those two points agree with what I was saying! Simple economies of scale mean that anything "custom" or "boutique" tends to be more expensive, and thats before you consider quality. If every single ACG bass was exactly the same then they could make the basses a bit cheaper, but without compromising on quality. I'm not saying its a general rule, but its just something to remember. PS I'd love a custom ACG by the way [/quote] That's what the ACG graft series are for, the shapes are the same and usually from the same woods, with standard electronics that allow him to drop them in. Easier to make batches and change certain requirements before the final finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paragon Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Agree entirely on player, experience, skill and musicality - amazing what a great player can get out of a budget bass. I've played some lovely budget basses too - great playability and tone (Danelectro, Squier, Aria, cheap Yammies). The proportion of duds is much higher in this bracket though IME - you have to be selective. To be honest though, good as some cheap basses are, for me they don't come close to most very high-end instruments (through contacts I've managed to play some jaw dropping top end basses). I'm sure good amps and effects make a difference with a cheap bass, but I'd say investing £70 in decent strings and a good set up is an excellent first step Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cheese Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 I'm lucky enough to own quite a few "high end" basses. I bought them not because they sound any better, but because I like them and I enjoy playing them. The only person that benefits from their quality is me. And that's fine. However, I picked up an old Tokai Jazz Bass a few weeks ago for £200. What an amazing bass! It balances perfectly, sounds amazing and is packed full of character. It's becoming my favourite bass! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 [quote name='iceonaboy' timestamp='1371316899' post='2112569'] Just how cute is that picture? [/quote] Yeah, great picture - a budding bassist of the future I reckon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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