string height.....again....sorry

[stingrayPete1977]

Ok folks my action is set at about 7mm on the G rising to 10mm on the E, my bridge is adjustable but its set as low as possible, I have spirocore weichs but its still quite hard work compared to my stagg with the same strings fitted. Should I shave a bit off the bridge and if so does the material need to be removed from the bridge or the feet? (not the bottom of the feet, I know), and what height should I go for, I'm playing all sorts from moondance (sorry) to bill haley numbers, thanks in advance as ever

[ubassman]

Always the top of the bridge. It seems that what is needed, is to extend the range of the adjustable feet by making the bridge 1- 2mm lower. Assuming that the profile of the top of bridge is well set up to match the fingerboard it should be ok to cut parallel to the existing curve ...but go careful and take close measurements if you are doing it yourself .

Although it may seem fairly straightforward, it may be worth taking to a luthier and getting it professionally set up - the bridge is a really key part to get right on the DB !

[stingrayPete1977]

I was hoping to take a few mm off the area next to adjusting wheels rather than from the profile of the bridge and having to re cut string slots?

[stingrayPete1977]

What string height should I aim for do you think? Watching bill haley clips and those strings really do move around!

[fatgoogle]

Have you thought about leaving it and just practicing until you build up strength? You are still very fresh to DB.

[cattytown]

The action does sound low as it is. I think mine's higher than that and I have mine relatively low.

I'll try to measure mine.

In what way is it hard work??

Paul.

[alistair Sutcliffe]

I recently dropped mine to 7mm between the fb and bottom of the strings. It's super easy to play pizz and slap but i think the tone's suffered. It seems to have lost a bit of punch.

[Clarky]

Here is a poll on TalkBass about string height http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f23/poll-7720-what-your-string-heights.html

The most common answer was 6-7mm G to 9-10mm E, but three was a wide spread

I don't think your 'action' is that high Pete. As others have said you probably just need to build up your strength. If that doesn't work out there are lower tension strings than Spiro weichs (eg Silver Slaps) but I wouldn't go down that path if you can help it as string changing is a recipe for bankruptcy and Weichs are excellent strings

[keeponehandloose]

i would take some off the bridge where you said Pete, but the drilled hole still needs to be deep enough to take the full stem of the adjuster, or the top half of the bridge wont rest on the wheels

[Mr Bassman]

[quote name='keeponehandloose' timestamp='1370987416' post='2108440']
i would take some off the bridge where you said Pete, but the drilled hole still needs to be deep enough to take the full stem of the adjuster, or the top half of the bridge wont rest on the wheels
[/quote]

Agreed

If you've got adjusters It's a lot easier to reduce the leg area than take some off the top.

[ubassman]

[quote name='Mr Bassman' timestamp='1370992519' post='2108527']
Agreed

If you've got adjusters It's a lot easier to reduce the leg area than take some off the top.
[/quote]

...normally you would want to keep the feet and the arch to the underside of the heart shape high so that the bridge resonates at its best ...but granted its a lot easier as a DIY job to trim the bridge feet this way.

It is very bass specific when it comes to talking about string heights. The thing is that all fingerboards have different cambers to them ( if you press the string against the fingerboard at the end you will see a gap of a few millimetres under the string at the octave harmonic - i.e. at the 12th fret of an electric bass - the fingerboard is actually convex - the 'camber' ). Some fingerboards are almost flat and others are more pronounced. The string height at the end of the fingerboard could be identical on both but one will be very playable and the other hard work because of the amount of camber. You may find that actually what is needed is to shoot the fingerboard (if you have a deep camber) - shaving a bit off the adjustable bridge may just result in a very buzzy bass but I guess its reversible by adjusting the bridge back to the height it is now.

[stingrayPete1977]

Well I'm only looking for about two mm and I can raise it back up on the wheels if it buzzes too much, I will have a play on Saturday, thanks guys

[Maude]

Pete, I had to file my nut down a bit which made it much nicer to play, there was a good 2 or 3 mm of clearance between the strings and fingerboard.
Isn't there a brass insert in the bridge which would mean you couldn't take any off at the adjusters?

[stingrayPete1977]

I have already done the nut and its not too bad up that end, quite a lot of tension at the plucking end though.

[Rabbie]

[quote name='fatgoogle' timestamp='1370985012' post='2108392']
Have you thought about leaving it and just practicing until you build up strength? You are still very fresh to DB.
[/quote]
This is great advice in my opinion. The lower the action, the weaker the sound you produce. A lot of people think it doesn't matter because nowadays you play with an amp, but I always found that if you go down that route you may as well play an electric bass. Then again all opinions are perfectly valid if they suit you.

[stingrayPete1977]

I'm only thinking about knocking the edge off it, as it stands having an adjustable bridge is pointless too as its minimum height is at the highest you would ever want the strings already, If the front of the bass swells by a few mm at some point then I would have to do it anyway.

[cattytown]

Looks like Joe Zinkan has his action a shade higher!

Paul.

[stingrayPete1977]

Just looked at the poll results and I'm going to aim for right in the middle of the two most common results 6mm G 8mm E, who is Joe Zinkan?

[thisnameistaken]

IMO 7mm to 10mm is pretty low, regardless of the strings you've got on there. I'd side with the 'harden the **** up' crowd I'm afraid.

For what it's worth when I first started it was on a bass with very similar string heights and 'medium' orchestral hybrid strings. They felt anything like 'medium', and I could only manage ten minutes at a time before my left hand got tired out.

So I did ten minute stints and they built up to 15 minutes and further and after practising every day for a couple of months I could have probably managed a gig if I'd trusted myself to gig the thing. I also started doing weight resistance training for my shoulders and back because I noticed I was getting weird twinges in my back and very early fatigue in my left shoulder, and I'm still doing those.

Anyway yeah: In the end it's all about building up the stamina to do it properly, and IMO there's no point in trying to make life easier for yourself because your sound will suffer. Although I did swap out the high-tension Evah Pirazzis for spiro weichs in the end and I was glad I did.

I would say though, if you haven't already, it's worth being diligent about working on best-practise techniques for both hands. You can make life really difficult for yourself if you just treat it like a big bass guitar, but if you take it seriously and you're disciplined about your practise you'll find it's a lot less tiring to play and your intonation will be a lot easier to get right too. If possible get a teacher, if that's not possible scour the crap out of the internet I suppose.

Edited June 12, 2013 by thisnameistaken

[ubassman]

Joe Zinkan ...enjoy !

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP5Cw2y6jEI"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP5Cw2y6jEI[/url]

[stingrayPete1977]

Awesome!

[Clarky]

Go Joe! Really enjoyed that clip and loved his non traditional left hand technique (thumb all the way round, fingering non-classical)

[bassace]

Actually Clarky, it [i]is [/i]traditional because that's how they all used to play and many incl moi still do. Quite effective too,says he with modesty. What it isn't is classical and it is to the modern bass players' credit that they now adopt Rabbath/Simandl, thumb et al. But there is more than one way to play a bass well.

[stingrayPete1977]

OK I have been having a mess with it, I was happy with my bridge position and it sounded quite nice overall so I made a jig to work from
[url="http://s997.photobucket.com/user/stingraypete/media/20130615_143938_zps5c78a585.jpg.html"][/url]
You can see it is on its bottom limit with the action about 8mm upto 10mm G-E, Took the bridge off and made marks showing the bass and treble foot and its direction, then marked a few mm off the foot, you can see the treble foot does not sit very flat on the wheel too.
[url="http://s997.photobucket.com/user/stingraypete/media/20130615_144132_zps1002d49f.jpg.html"][/url]
The brass posts were too long because on their lowest setting without the wheels fitted they only had 1mm more gap than the wheel thickness anyway, I took a bit off the post and bevelled the ends again, after refitting the treble side was still to long so I took about 6mm off the thread on that one to give me plenty of adjustment back, they are both well planted though probably 15mm of thread still in each foot.
Refitted it all, messed for ages decided to move the bridge lower to get the bridge to sit nearer the f hole notches while upright and with a 105cm scale length, ended up having to pull the bridge a couple of mm to the bass side to get the strings to run parallel and to get the heights I wanted! made a new jig from tape but ended up with a lot more thread on show than wood I removed, probably because of moving it away from the neck a bit?
[URL=http://s997.photobucket.com/user/stingraypete/media/20130615_160205_zps1732f27f.jpg.html][IMG]http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af100/stingraypete/20130615_160205_zps1732f27f.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Anyway it plays well now with the action about 6.5mm on the G up to about 8mm on the E, no nasty buzzes or rattles, I may of lost some volume but for now playability comes before sound. I have some lessons lined up hopefully, if it needs more work in a few months I will bite the bullet and let Timothy Toft's sort it out

Edited June 15, 2013 by stingrayPete1977

[Beer of the Bass]

My adjusters go quite low, so I've experimented with height a bit. For me there's an optimum height which works out at about 6.5-9mm from G to E (with Spiro Mittels). Any lower and the notes lose their body, much higher and I can't get the growl that I like. It's surprising how much difference a small change will make.