Ruach Utility Bass

[Roland Rock]

I love that body sketch. The scratchplate looks great

[rk7]

What an interesting project!

I recently had a bass commissioned, and it cost an arm and a leg, but at the time (through selling other things) I had a spare arm and leg so it was all good. It really is a great experience.

Whilst this bass is being built to your specific budget, it still meets every requirement you have and that's the beauty of it. Great build!

I'm also fascinated by the built-in stand concept. Such a simple idea, but potentially could be a huge development in bass design.

Best wishes with the build, enjoy every minute!

Subscribed

RK

[4 Strings]

[quote name='rk7' timestamp='1377329633' post='2186216']
What an interesting project!

I recently had a bass commissioned, and it cost an arm and a leg, but at the time (through selling other things) I had a spare arm and leg so it was all good. It really is a great experience.

Whilst this bass is being built to your specific budget, it still meets every requirement you have and that's the beauty of it. Great build!

I'm also fascinated by the built-in stand concept. Such a simple idea, but potentially could be a huge development in bass design.

Best wishes with the build, enjoy every minute!

Subscribed

RK
[/quote]

Thanks RK, would love to see the bass you had made!

Regarding the stand, thanks for the encouragement, I'd really like to go for it.

I feel that anything taking wood from the centre line of the body may have an effect on the sound, rigidity etc so I've had to drag my mind away from a 'A' shape that swings out with a hinge up near the neck joint. I'm now wondering about an 'L' shape (with a curvy bottom) which swings out sideways from a hinge offset to near the edge. If it was near the top edge it would naturally want to lie flat in use (if you see what I mean).

Whatever the design, it will need to be recessed to leave the back flat and also cause no rattle or sympathetic resonances when playing but be quick and easy to use without flapping about.

No news can be bad news, in that a bit of communication with Rubners about some special has come to a standstill. Looks like Hipshot or Gotoh after all.

Other news also not so good in that John East uses spindles as standard which are longer than required for the detailed measurements of this project. He'll do shorter ones as a special but may take some time to get round to them. Heath is playing with dimensions to try and make the longer ones fit.

Pups, I think I'm pretty settled on a MM type near the bridge and a P type single coil in the P position. Hopefully we can get the P type to either match the MM case or maybe a J type case would look neat. I still really love the simplicity of a single pup but will probably go for two, without the plug in option.

Still can't make up my mind about the scratchplate. If I have one Heath will use the space under it to extend the neck joint to be super rigid with a massive contact area. In the name of Utility and performance I should do this, I just love the simplicity of those G&Ls!

Heath said he'd send me some pics of the neck in progress. Can't wait! One of the good parts about buying a bass this way is the neck can be shaped as I want it, and, as it will be a waxed/oiled finished I can have it reshaped if needed (albeit in one direction only!) I find this a very important feature.

Edited September 4, 2013 by 4 Strings

[Owen]

How about 2 strap buttons at the bottom which will then create a stable surface to lean it against anything?

[4 Strings]

[quote name='owen' timestamp='1378325630' post='2198754']
How about 2 strap buttons at the bottom which will then create a stable surface to lean it against anything?
[/quote]

Nice and simple, unfortunately not so good with strap locks and may slip on a hard surface.

Keeping with it, a couple of rubber feet, not so elegant, but would work, if the strap button could be solved. I'd like to pursue not leaning against things first though.

[BigRedX]

Two strap buttons idea only works if they can be placed so that the instrument rests on them and not on the apex of the bottom curve. Also it means you can't use strap locks as they will make one of the bigger.

[Owen]

I have generally not used strap locks for years. I simply use washers and screw the whole washer/strap/button into the bass. Something like this with a small rubber cover cut off one of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Black-3D-Removable-Lego-Brick-Block-Silicone-Case-Cover-Protector-for-iPhone-5-/121170620101?pt=UK_MobilePhones_MobilePhonesCasesPouches&hash=item1c3654eec5 might work. I am only musing aloud here

I do have one bass with a Jazz-esque body and have a schaller strap lock on it, but offset that so that when it and the lower bout is level the bass is stable. Obv there are issues with scratching the finish, but you could have the same arrangement and use a second strap button.

Why am I still awake?

[4 Strings]

No idea, but I am too. Last effort then.

I had thought of a proper rubber cover for both ends of the bass, to protect etc, but decided I'd like it less than a few digs in the wood.

[rk7]

Its early in the day, but I'm thinking of something like the legs of a cymbal stand. Not a tripod of course, but a single leg each side of the neck on the back of the bass? And made of wood. And with witchcraft. N'that.

As I said, its early. zzzzz

Btw, 4strings, theres a build thread on here for my bass, also it will be at the NE Bass Bash this weekend.

Time for a nap!

RK

[rubis]

I think a set of Gotoh 510 tuners would look great with your headstock design [attachment=143135:0836-10.jpg][attachment=143136:original.jpg]

[4 Strings]

[quote name='rk7' timestamp='1378362513' post='2199046']
Its early in the day, but I'm thinking of something like the legs of a cymbal stand. Not a tripod of course, but a single leg each side of the neck on the back of the bass? And made of wood. And with witchcraft. N'that.

As I said, its early. zzzzz

Btw, 4strings, theres a build thread on here for my bass, also it will be at the NE Bass Bash this weekend.

Time for a nap!

RK
[/quote]

Thanks RK, I found it, that's a very nice choice of, well everything! Great read too!

Is the finish a matt lacquer?

[4 Strings]

[quote name='rubis' timestamp='1378406949' post='2199924']
I think a set of Gotoh 510 tuners would look great with your headstock design [attachment=143135:0836-10.jpg][attachment=143136:original.jpg]
[/quote]

They certainly look nice on that headstock.

The current headstock design is quite a bit bigger, and I quite like the agricultural look of the traditional Kluson sort.
[URL=http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/4Strings1/media/Ruach%20Utility%20Bass/IMG_3448-3_zpsef8820a9.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o760/4Strings1/Ruach%20Utility%20Bass/IMG_3448-3_zpsef8820a9.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Assuming the Rubners aren't going to happen, the default choice (as they will be the same screw holes and perfect match for the D Xtender) will be Hipshot:
[url="http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/4Strings1/media/Hipshottuner_zpsddce5fe9.jpg.html"][/url]

with these Gotohs as an option:
[url="http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/4Strings1/media/GotohTuner_zps5ab9bee6.jpg.html"][/url]

and, a bit different, these also by Gotoh:
[url="http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/4Strings1/media/GotohTuner2_zps68baaa7d.jpg.html"][/url]

The Gotohs look really nicely made and the bush screws into the tuner keep it all tight, and even has a friction adjustment.

Edited October 18, 2013 by 4 Strings

[4 Strings]

Heath had sent as set of progress pics showing a start being made on the neck.

Firstly with a frighteningly deep truss rod rout (to within 7mm of the fret board):
[URL=http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/4Strings1/media/Ruach%20Utility%20Bass/IMG_3450-4_zps90637421.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o760/4Strings1/Ruach%20Utility%20Bass/IMG_3450-4_zps90637421.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Then with rod fixed and walnut skunk stripe inserted to put the strength back in:
[URL=http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/4Strings1/media/Ruach%20Utility%20Bass/IMG_3452_zps1ef3ba4a.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o760/4Strings1/Ruach%20Utility%20Bass/IMG_3452_zps1ef3ba4a.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

and a clue to the final back of neck:
[URL=http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/4Strings1/media/Ruach%20Utility%20Bass/IMG_3451-3_zpsc9e3d174.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o760/4Strings1/Ruach%20Utility%20Bass/IMG_3451-3_zpsc9e3d174.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

I keep saying it, this neck is, for me, the most important and exciting part of the project!

Edited October 18, 2013 by 4 Strings

[Myke]

I really like the last Gotoh. What are they?

The grain on that neck is lovely!!

[4 Strings]

[quote name='Myke' timestamp='1378471709' post='2200815']
I really like the last Gotoh. What are they?

The grain on that neck is lovely!!
[/quote]

These are they:http://www.g-gotoh.com/international/?btp_product=gb11w

Actually my favourite, just so different to the D Xtender thing

The neck blank is quarter sawn which means the ripples are on full view. Saw Guthrie Govan last night (breathtaking as usual!) and his guitar neck was something similar, clearly quarter sawn too, but with a nice (although more subtle) ripple.

Probably wouldn't have noticed but for this project!

[4 Strings]

Here's the headstock drawn on the wood (complete with unavoidable knot! Who knows, maybe once the headstock has been cut to be laid back it might disappear)

[URL=http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/4Strings1/media/Ruach%20Utility%20Bass/IMG_3447-3_zpscc2c66cf.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o760/4Strings1/Ruach%20Utility%20Bass/IMG_3447-3_zpscc2c66cf.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

I noticed rk7's headstock is also laid back. Can't really understand why builders of custom or otherwise expensive basses would choose a Fender type headstock which has merely been made thinner and then needs string trees to get the string angle over the nut.

I can understand why Fender choose it for heir mass produced basses as you can have a thinner piece of wood and its more easily shaped.

(I keep looking at this bit of wood!)

Edited October 18, 2013 by 4 Strings

[Owen]

That is a lush piece of wood, and I would even venture to say that the knot gives it just a hint of character as well. Not that it does not have character, but the slight "blemish" makes it more real somehow.

[rk7]

Staring at headstocks eh? Its a symptom of having a custom bass built! ha ha

Martin was showing me a custom build Overwater Jazz bass recently that has a laid back headstock! Very cool.

As you will know, when basses are made this way, there is a chunk of wood cut out of the back of the neck. The guys at OW make these off-cuts into chopping boards! Really! I have one, but its way too nice to chop stuff on.

Your bass is looking lovely 4Strings, its gonna be a beaut!

thank you please

RK

[4 Strings]

[quote name='rk7' timestamp='1378480227' post='2200966']
As you will know, when basses are made this way, there is a chunk of wood cut out of the back of the neck. The guys at OW make these off-cuts into chopping boards! Really! I have one, but its way too nice to chop stuff on.

[/quote]

In the first pic in post 38, to one side you can see the bit cut from the back of the neck. I thought maybe someone's fingerboard in the future, but maybe I'll claim it for a baguette board!

[Myke]

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1378472649' post='2200829']
These are they:http://www.g-gotoh.com/international/?btp_product=gb11w

Actually my favourite, just so different to the D Xtender thing

The neck blank is quarter sawn which means the ripples are on full view. Saw Guthrie Govan last night (breathtaking as usual!) and his guitar neck was something similar, clearly quarter sawn too, but with a nice (although more subtle) ripple.

Probably wouldn't have noticed but for this project!
[/quote]

Ah thank you! They are so nice! and not as expensive as I thought!

It happens.. When I started to look into building basses I started noticing how other guitars are made but also antique wooden furniture..

[4 Strings]

OOh, ooh, ooh, it's all on the move!

The neck is now well on its way, apparently the laid back head has been cut and emails regarding string spacing etc have been swapped.

Never thought about it before, string spacing can be measured from centre to centre (seems obvious) or edge to edge - to keep the gaps between the string even. We're actually going for the latter! The gap will change very slightly with varying string gauges but, tbh, I don't change much. So the centre to centres will be slightly different (we're talking ~1mm over all the strings here). Roughly speaking they will be around 11-12mm c to c. This is a bit wider than a P, but about right for an old Stingray - my kind of nut!

The top face of the headstock will have a slight belly to it meaning the string posts will need a slight countersink for a flat mating surface. This is cool as it will match the countersinking of the tone controls on the body.

Heath is having to get things ordered!

Disappointingly Rubners never came back so I'm afraid it's the default Hipshot tuners. Nothing wrong with these at all, people upgrade to them. Most importantly Heath gets a good deal with them, they deliver quickly and will perfectly match the X-Tender I already have. A very near miss for Gotoh though.

Bridges, again the default Hipshot version of the single bridge design. Their fixings go right through the body and tighten to it and the string goes through the fixing. My only misgiving is they also have top loading which, in my opinion, makes them unnecessarily long. I pursued an Ibanez design but they didn't come back either.

John East will be delivering his preamp and Aaron Kent the pups in a week or so. The latter will be a Stingray type at the bridge and a Jazz looking case with windings to mimic a Precision inside for the neck pup. The neck pup could be in a matching case to the bridge pup but I think two humbuckers look rather 'in your face' and the Jazz shape more graceful for the middle of the body. Talked about wooden pup cases etc and although these could be an option this is a Utility Bass not a Conklin coffee table bass. (Ruach have engraved pup covers which I fancied but don't have any 4 string versions left! I'll have plain and, when some more become available, put those on. - they are on this one Heath sold on here: http://basschat.co.uk/topic/197469-two-ruach-basses-for-sale/ )

Colour! Hmm. Trans black? The body has some nice figuring, not exemplary but nice nonetheless and so a trans would be good. I've settled (at the moment!) for an orange. Either a rich orange all over or a paler orange going to a burst at the edge. Here's a coupe of examples:

The bass may look very much like this!
[URL=http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/4Strings1/media/Transorange2_zpsea22e931.jpg.html]
[IMG]http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o760/4Strings1/Transorange2_zpsea22e931.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

or this:
[URL=http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/4Strings1/media/HONEYBURSTLEGACYDELUXE_zps45f5fc4b.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o760/4Strings1/HONEYBURSTLEGACYDELUXE_zps45f5fc4b.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
Similar type of figuring but not as nice.

[rk7]

Took me a while to get it, but the string spacing you refer to is at the nut. Derrrr, its early.

What spacing at the bridge(s)? I suspect 17mm, like mine? Very playable choice. I tried my other Perception at the weekend, which is at 19mm on a Hipshot B Style bridge, and the spacing seems huge!

The first of the body colour options shown above is lovely.

Don't know where you are based, but if you are ever 'up north', you are welcome to try/view my Overwater.

RK

[4 Strings]

[quote name='rk7' timestamp='1378972862' post='2207103']
Took me a while to get it, but the string spacing you refer to is at the nut. Derrrr, its early.

What spacing at the bridge(s)? I suspect 17mm, like mine? Very playable choice. I tried my other Perception at the weekend, which is at 19mm on a Hipshot B Style bridge, and the spacing seems huge!

The first of the body colour options shown above is lovely.

Don't know where you are based, but if you are ever 'up north', you are welcome to try/view my Overwater.

RK
[/quote]

Yes, nut end, Heath's working up there at the moment hence I'm having to make actual decisions!

The bridge end will be 19mm, I like a bit of air - too clumsy to cope with strings close together!

In the end I think its what you're used to when making the decision! At the moment I'm using my old Stingray all the time and it's 19mm. When I play a P at church the strings seem too close together. I'm sure if it was the other way around....! Actually I always feel comfortable on the 'Ray, wide bridge and nut and slim neck.

[rk7]

I was nervous when speccing the Overwater string spacing, but Martin recommended 17mm so I went with that. Within a week or so of owning the bass I was totally comfortable with it, to the point where my original Bolt-on now seems vast at 19mm.

I guess we get used to anything. I do like the 17mm though. Comfortable and economical, that's the theory at least. Martins advice was spot-on for all aspects of the build.

Your bass is gonna be awesome!

RK

[4 Strings]

Some pics.
Firstly showing the laid back headstock:
[URL=http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/4Strings1/media/Ruach%20Utility%20Bass/IMG_3458_zps630a9355.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o760/4Strings1/Ruach%20Utility%20Bass/IMG_3458_zps630a9355.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Then with a nut laid in it (not mine, too many strings!) showing how the face of the headstock meets the nut to support it on both sides (and look cool!)
[URL=http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/4Strings1/media/Ruach%20Utility%20Bass/IMG_3460_zps0dc1d03c.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o760/4Strings1/Ruach%20Utility%20Bass/IMG_3460_zps0dc1d03c.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

And the headstock shape drawn in place. The knot at the top has gone with the cutting but revealing another slap bang in the middle! The one that has appeared right near the end is quite nice in that position!
[URL=http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/4Strings1/media/Ruach%20Utility%20Bass/IMG_3459_zps99656ab8.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o760/4Strings1/Ruach%20Utility%20Bass/IMG_3459_zps99656ab8.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

In the slot you can just see the direction of the wood grain, almost vertical, an almost perfect quarter sawn piece. Still very excited about this neck!

After some more emails and phone call discussion the fingerboard will be lacquered with cellulose and the back waxed. The lacquer to try and avoid dirt in a heavily used bass (Utility Bass!) and cellulose, which is apparently 'softer' than polyurethane to reduce the chance of chipping at the edge. Also a lacquered fingerboard with that bit of maple is going to look blinding! Wax on the back because I liked it on the newer MM basses I've had and Heath loves it too.

Also, in the name of utility, we'll be looking at SS frets (and probably a new set of tools!). I like the silver look on that maple but also they should last for ever.

Edited October 18, 2013 by 4 Strings