Moral Dilema - dropped from a recording

[Rainbass]

Hi
A guitarist friend I have played and written music with for over 25 years asked me to play on a set of solo songs he has been working on. We are "weekend warriors" so music is a hobby for us, but he really wanted to get a good recording of the songs so spent a couple of thousand pounds on putting the CD together.
I went to the studio last May and did 8 tracks. I didn't really gel with the producer/engineer and I definitely didn't play my best that day, but got them all recorded.
After a year, the final mixed and mastered CD is out and my friend gave me a copy and I am credited on the sleeve as the Bass player.
When I listened to the songs they sound great but it soon became clear to me that it wasn't my playing. Very similar to what I had done, but with fills that I know weren't me, and a 5 string on a song where I played 4 string etc.
Of course there was a bit of a sucking feeling when I found out, but I know my friend has spent a lot on this and I want it to be as good for him as it can, so if my playing needed replacing, that's fine. But I don't feel I should be credited for something I didn't do.
I'm not sure if my friend knows or not that I'm not on the recordings , but I suspect he doesn't know, so my dilemma is whether to mention it to him or not?

[neepheid]

That's a horrible situation to find yourself in. It's your name that's pinned to something you didn't do and I'm guessing that you find that unacceptable. It's probably best to speak initially to your friend about it. He might be unaware, although if I was driving a four figure project then I'd want to know everything about it. I probably would refuse to pay a producer/engineer who replaced bass tracks with mystery bass without consulting me first.

Of course, this may have repercussions for your friendship if it turns out that he did know or sanction it and didn't tell you. But ultimately there's a wrong to right, you're the one left feeling guilty and none of this is your fault. Make the enquiries.

[discreet]

Am I missing something? How could your friend not know about this? Do you think the producer/engineer went to the trouble of finding another bass player, recording new bass lines and remixing the tracks without telling him (and presumably at no extra charge)? It's possible I suppose, but surely your friend would have been very surprised by this (as you were) and said something to you?

[Junkyard Rocket]

If you felt your playing wasn't up to standard on the day why didn't you insist on a redo?

[Rainbass]

The producer/engineer was very involved, played himself on a number of tracks and did a fair bit of recording without my friend being present (backing vocals, keyboard overdubs etc.) so it is quite possible that he is unaware

[Rainbass]

[quote name='Junkyard Rocket' timestamp='1371373673' post='2112970']
If you felt your playing wasn't up to standard on the day why didn't you insist on a redo?
[/quote]

Good question - no good answer on my part!

[discreet]

[quote name='Rainbass' timestamp='1371373710' post='2112971']
The producer/engineer was very involved, played himself on a number of tracks and did a fair bit of recording without my friend being present (backing vocals, keyboard overdubs etc.) so it is quite possible that he is unaware[/quote]

Crikey. So he may even have re-done the bass himself? There's no way I would pay for a recording and not be there for the tracking and mixing. Of course I don't know the full details but whatever the situation, it certainly sucks giant hairy moose balls from your point of view.

You're probably a well-adjusted and reasonable bloke, but in this situation I'd go crazy apeshit bananas and start throwing poo around. YMMV. Maybe just talk to him in a calm and measured way about it and see what he says?

Edited June 16, 2013 by discreet

[Rainbass]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1371373985' post='2112974']
Crikey. So he may even have re-done the bass himself? There's no way I would pay for a recording and not be there for the tracking and mixing. Of course I don't know the full details but whatever the situation, it certainly sucks giant hairy moose balls from your point of view.

You're probably a well-adjusted and reasonable bloke, but in this situation I'd go crazy apeshit bananas and start throwing poo around. YMMV. Maybe just talk to him in a calm and measured way about it and see what he says?
[/quote]

Aiming to keep the well-adjusted bit to the fore !

[Lord Sausage]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1371373985' post='2112974']
Crikey. So he may even have re-done the bass himself? There's no way I would pay for a recording and not be there for the tracking and mixing. Of course I don't know the full details but whatever the situation, it certainly sucks giant hairy moose balls from your point of view.

You're probably a well-adjusted and reasonable bloke, but in this situation I'd go crazy apeshit bananas and start throwing poo around. YMMV. Maybe just talk to him in a calm and measured way about it and see what he says?
[/quote]I know a producer who re-does parts without telling bands and most don't notice. He doesn't like his recordings going out with crap playing on so he just overdubs the parts himself.

[Lord Sausage]

Not saying the guy who wrote the OP is crap by the way.

[BigRedX]

To the OP do you have any financial and/or creative (other than playing the bass) stake in this recording?

If not then it's probably one of these things that you have to chalk up to experience and move on. The only thing you can really do is if you think that the bass parts on the recordings are below par creatively and technically compared with what you would have played if you'd been more comfortable in the studio would be to ask to have your name removed from the sleeve credits.

If you do have a bigger stake i the recording, especially a financial one then you should at the very least be getting all your money back. And maybe more...

I thing I find perplexing is why on a project like this have they gone to the trouble to replace the bass parts without at least consulting you first. I can understand this happening if it was a major label project with serious ambitions and serious money being put up to produce it, and although a 4-figure sum might be a lot to your friend it's small fry compared with what is spent making an album with commercial intentions. The only thing I can think of is that your friend has come to some kind or financial arrangement with the producer to save money on making the recording in which case he's probably justified in replacing any parts he didn't think were up to scratch.

However I'd have a polite and quiet word with your friend first before taking this any further.

[steve-bbb]

what is the real dilemma here?

is it that you feel the playing on the final recording is not indicative of your style and in particular your standard of playing?

is the playing significantly below your standard and therefore likely to affect your reputation as a bass player? - will it likely have an effect on any future offers of work? - will it have any significant impact on your fiscal status?

if not to all these then why worry

the bottom line is... it's the bottom line - most punters buying it will be listening to the words and tunes and only a few picky musos like us lot would know or care about the difference anyway

[Happy Jack]

I've had two vaguely similar experiences, quite different from each other and in the context of a pub rock band.

First time, we had self-recorded in the studio an up-tempo country rock song ([i]Two More Bottles Of Wine[/i] by Delbert McLinton) and my bass playing was spot-on. The keyboard player was doing the mix at his home and when the track re-surfaced he had replaced my bassline with a classic old-style two-feel, completely changing the feel of the song.

Second time, we self-recorded at a gig an allegedly popular funk sonk ([i]Play That Funky Music[/i] by Wild Cherry) and I really struggled to replicate the original riff over & over & over again. The slide player was doing the mix at his home and when the track re-surfaced he had sampled one of the few occasions I got the riff just right and then re-used the sample.

Check out 1:45 onwards here: [url="http://www.junkyarddogslondon.co.uk/video/video.html"]http://www.junkyardd...ideo/video.html[/url]

Neither of these guys checked with me before doing what they did.

The first incident led to a massive row, the near break-up of the band, and the premature departure of the keyboard player.

The second incident led to a shrug, some laughs, and let's have another drink.

Go figure ...

ps: Just noticed that 4:40 on the same video is [i]Two More Bottles Of Wine[/i].

Edited June 16, 2013 by Happy Jack

[Lozz196]

Are the new parts ok? If so, chalk it up to experience, hone your recording skills, and whenever you`re putting yourself forward for session/studio/bands etc, use these recordings as an example of how good you are.

May seem a bit mercenary, but you didn`t ask for this. I think, going by descriptions, it was the engineer who has done this, so possibly your friend is unaware of what has happened - or knows, and feels embarrassed by it, hence putting you on the credits.

Whichever, use both parts to your advantage, recording is a thing we can all learn from, what you already knew was your playing wasn`t so good - what you can learn from this is to insist you get another take to nail it. On the other side, if these recordings are good, you could get work from them.

[chris_b]

If the recording is better, smile and take the credit.

This is not an uncommon situation and I would discuss with your friend. He should know, but again if the bass is good why should he care?

A dispassionate comment would be, you should have played better then your parts wouldn't have been replaced.

As has already been said, chalk it up to experience and move on.

Don't let it affect your friendship.

[Rainbass]

Hi all

thanks for the inputs and advice - very helpful all round, and helped me decide what I will do. What a great community this is!

I don't have any commercial or creative "ownership" of this - I was doing it for a friend, and the final parts that have been recorded are fine - very similar to what I did play anyway, and probably (come on, be honest, definitely) a touch better than mine on the day, anyway. It's definitely one to chalk up to experience.
I guess the thing in my mind is that someone else has changed the part and I strongly suspect my friend doesn't know - and his friendship is far more important to me than any specific recording. So I'm coming to the opinion that it wouldn't help him or my friendship with him to raise this. This CD is an important project to him and I don't want to do anything to sour it for him.

[discreet]

[quote name='Rainbass' timestamp='1371381899' post='2113109']
...I'm coming to the opinion that it wouldn't help him or my friendship with him to raise this. This CD is an important project to him and I don't want to do anything to sour it for him.[/quote]

Fair enough. Keep schtum and go on your merry way with a light step and joy in your heart knowing you've done the right thing.

[lou24d53]

Just as long as you're not the type of guy where one night you both end up bladdered together and it gets blurted out?

[RhysP]

The only issue I'd have with this is I wouldn't want my name on it if I hadn't played on it, regardless of the standard of the bass playing eventually used.

[EssentialTension]

If this was me I would need to have it out in the open. Don't be silent.

Maybe your friend knows what's gone on and is fearful to say anything. In that case you need to put him at his ease and show that you're cool about it, or if you aren't cool about it then that needs to come out too.

[discreet]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1371382846' post='2113120']
...I wouldn't want my name on it if I hadn't played on it, regardless of the standard of the bass playing eventually used.[/quote]

If the OP is a well-known artist and the CD is by a name band released on a major label, I'd agree.

Edited June 16, 2013 by discreet

[Stacker]

I fell foul of a muso/studio owner and a musician not associated with a band I once played with. They wiped my Ricky 8-string off one song (due to a few harmonics being out of tune) and re-did the bassline on a DX7, ffs!! A few weeks later, when I finally heard the tape, I could not believe my ears: not only was it a DX7 but the baseline bore absolutely no resemblance to my part. I eventually got hold of that studio guy and bawled him out in public for doing it.

I would definitely broach the subject with your guitarist friend, no matter how much he's spent on it.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Stacker

[Bilbo]

Let it go. He may have just added parts and kept some of yours or even tweaked then using the IT. I have heard recordings several times that I have done that I can't remember doing or sound different to what I remember. It's no biggie really.

[discreet]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1371384138' post='2113143']I have heard recordings several times that I have done that I can't remember doing or sound different to what I remember.
It's no biggie really.[/quote]

This. I can't even remember what I had for breakfast this morning.

Edit: Pizza from last night. Hawaiian.

Edited June 16, 2013 by discreet

[JamesBass]

Talking of strange experiences on records and recording, I did a session for a friend the other day for his EP, the material was all simple stuff, nothing taxing, nice easy 4/4 I, IV, V song, I went in and set up, the engineer gave me 2 run throughs to listen to what had already been done and then went in and after 4 bars of the verse, he stopped me and said that'll do perfectly, I'll just loop that round, can you give us 1 chorus and then you're done mate, so did the chorus thinking, they might be on a tight timescale here, turns out my mate has the studio booked for another 2 weeks for another 3 songs! I came away from it thinking, what the bloody hell is going on there! Got in touch with my mate yesterday to check how it went and apparently the playing was spot on and the engineer wanted as much time as possible on vocals and acoustic guitar work, which I spose is fair enough but still seemed very odd to me!

OP, just ask your mate if it's bothering you that much and there's more work and/or money riding on it, if not then it's one for the experience books!