Moral Dilema - dropped from a recording

[Fat Rich]

Welcome to the music business! You'd be amazed how many well known band members have never had any of their playing make it onto an album.

Take a look at this thread if you've got some time on your hands:

[url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f32/interviewing-bassist-stories-866617/"]http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f32/interviewing-bassist-stories-866617/[/url]

I guess in your position I'd mention it to your mate but not make a big thing about it, but also find out what he didn't like about my playing and learn from it.

[Toddy]

gosh, agree with Bilbo!... guessing this happens quite a lot and wondered how I would feel. personally would give the guy the heads up that your aware its not you on the recording, however, you want his project to be the best it can be, and if it was felt parts needed redoing your cool with it,, and your friendship is stong enough to deal with this sort of thing.

[Junkyard Rocket]

At least it wasn't done to diddle you out of possible Royalties; see Bob Daisley & Lee Kerslake's removal from the reissue of Ozzy's blizzard of oz for a very sorry tale.

[JTUK]

Your parts got dropped and I think your friend would definietly know this and have been involved in the decision.

Your deal is how much you mind. I suggest he is letting you down gently.
The other bass player might have more of a gripe not being credited, but that is why you take the fee...
and then you can feel less precious about it. Not saying it doesn't register though, still...

[SteveK]

Par for the course, you'll find yourself in good company. I'm sure this will have happened to Pino, Mark King or any other musician you care to name name. This is possibly the kind of scenario responsible for the Carole Kaye/James Jamerson 'who played on what' dispute.
As for the suggestion that there may be 'a court case somewhere in there'... not a chance!

[discreet]

[quote name='Fat Rich' timestamp='1371390624' post='2113221']
Welcome to the music business! You'd be amazed how many well known band members have never had any of their playing make it onto an album. [size=4]Take a look at this thread if you've got some time on your hands: [/size][url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f32/interviewing-bassist-stories-866617/"]http://www.talkbass....stories-866617/[/url][/quote]

Thanks for the link - that is a truly amazing thread! I couldn't stop reading it!

[lefrash]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1371384138' post='2113143']
Let it go. He may have just added parts and kept some of yours or even tweaked then using the IT. I have heard recordings several times that I have done that I can't remember doing or sound different to what I remember. It's no biggie really.
[/quote]

This big time.

I occasionally do sessions for a local studio. I turn up with my bass and a lead, I plug straight into a preamp, and I listen to the song, and play 3 or 4 attempts. This literally takes not much more time that playing the songs 3 or 4 times. The work though is done by the producer, who then cuts and pastes bits from each take making up a full track with the best bits. I can get the cd and I wouldnt recognise myself. Does it bother me? Nope, it sounds good and i get paid.... cant complain!

[TimR]

[quote name='lefrash' timestamp='1371396158' post='2113316']


This big time.

I occasionally do sessions for a local studio. I turn up with my bass and a lead, I plug straight into a preamp, and I listen to the song, and play 3 or 4 attempts. This literally takes not much more time that playing the songs 3 or 4 times. The work though is done by the producer, who then cuts and pastes bits from each take making up a full track with the best bits. I can get the cd and I wouldnt recognise myself. Does it bother me? Nope, it sounds good and i get paid.... cant complain!
[/quote]

Indeed. AND you got credited so if someone is after a bass player in your style you might get a call. You can then chose to be upfront and say you wrote the main bass riffs but a few of the fills were added after (or not) as you see fit. Who is to say the next guy won't do exactly the same anyway.

[paul_5]

It happens all of the time unfortunately - I've done it myself on a couple of albums where the playing was 'sub prime'. Not because I wanted a playing royalty (waived them anyway), but it's often easier than spending hours and hours trying to edit / pitch correct / polish the proverbial.

[Damonjames]

It sounds to me like you are a little offended, but deep down you know you probably weren't good enough on the day and accept it. Personally I couldn't live with the elephant in the room, if you value your friendship have a chat about it, but make it clear you are ok with it. You never know he may be carry a massive amount of guilt around knowing he dumped his buddy's recordings but doesn't know how to tell you!

[Skol303]

It's one of the following:

A) Your mate sanctioned the new bassline and didn't tell you because he didn't want to hurt your feelings (the wrong thing to do, but he probably meant no evil by it).

B ) The engineer took it upon himself to re-record the bass and your mate either wasn't told or didn't notice.

C) Your mate and the engineer are in cahoots and now planning your assassination to avoid any future disputes over the album credits.

I'd wager it's most likely A... in which case have a friendly chat about it and clear the air.

If we don't hear from you following this thread then we'll know it was C

Edited June 16, 2013 by Skol303

[lurksalot]

having only recently learnt how to use DAW I can honestly say that my editing skills are probably better than my playing skills , I can now produce a bassline with far more accuracy than I can play it , and I wouldn't necessarily recognise it as me, having played it live in the recording , sad but true , I can spend hours messing with it and getting a take , rather than spend 3 minutes playing it right .
still , I love gigging warts and all , but I hate the thought of having a recording that isn't quite right , bizarre .

[KevB]

If I'd played on something and my track subsequently got removed and replaced by someone else's playing I'd want that person to be credited, not me. Why should they miss out? As has been said before it happens all the time though.

[CHW]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1371384551' post='2113148']
This. I can't even remember what I had for breakfast this morning.

Edit: Pizza from last night. Hawaiian.
[/quote]

If you want to mention it, mention it like the above-

Tell him you've listened to it, don't remember playing that well, and don't even remember playing some of those fills. Ask him whether you are just being a dozy bugger or has it been re done at a later date and see what he says- keep it light hearted and then at least you might find out the truth..

[Left Foot]

Tell him that the bass line is not your playing but that it sounds good and that your happy and pleased with how well it went...sounds simple

[4-string-thing]

I'd mention it in a light-hearted way, you never know, if your mate is a competent muso, he may have even redone or added to your bass parts himself, and is a bit embarrassed to tell you. If some of the recording is you, you still deserve a credit.

[steve-bbb]

[lojo]

Get it out in the open it will only grow as an issue in your head otherwise

You mention you where not happy yourself with your takes, so the main question for me would be, not that fact they needed upgrading but why did they not ask you if you to go again if they clearly had the time and resources to do it.

Also , not sure where the recording is going on and at what level, but whats the deal with the guy who played it and the credit (unless of course if its your mate or the engineer)

Good luck with this

[Wolverinebass]

If that was me I'd be having my name off it right away. If it's not me, it's not me and that's the end of it. It's a difficult one, but I wouldn't care if my playing got substituted with Jaco Pastorius. I'm not taking the credit for something I didn't do. If I had a stinker at the session, I wouldn't have been bothered about having my playing removed provided I had a conversation about it. Someone removing your playing unilaterally is totally wrong. The fact that the playing has been based on what you've done is somewhat of an insult as well. Say something now or forever let it eat away at you....

[Roland Rock]

I remember reading a Chuck Rainey interview. He had a part in a band on a weekly TV show where the actual broadcasted music was recorded by the band earlier in the week. One show, he's about to 'mime' his way through the track when he hears a completely different bassline, definitely not his. He kicked off and refused to play at all!
He acknowledged that in hindsight, this was wrong and unprofessional. He apologised to the band and all involved.

I don't know whether he was falsely credited with playing that bassline, but from a 'being replaced' point of view, Mr Rainey said that he learned from that experience, and that if this happens, it is just one of those things that you have to take on the chin.

[Cosmo Valdemar]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1371382846' post='2113120']
The only issue I'd have with this is I wouldn't want my name on it if I hadn't played on it, regardless of the standard of the bass playing eventually used.
[/quote]

This.

[12stringbassist]

I'd honestly be driven nuts if this happened to me.
I don't think you really have any option other than to politely ask about what happened.

It can go one of a few ways:

It was done without your mate knowing:
So you can just say, that even though you like it, you don't want to take the credit for someone else's work.

Your mate had it re-done:
Say fair enough, you weren't totally happy with what you did anyway and the new part is fine, but you don't want to take the credit for someone else's work.

From there, just remember to keep cool as your friendship is more important than the tracks.
Or you can go straight to handbags at twenty paces.

[mike257]

What everyone calling for credits to be removed seems to be missing from the original post is that the CD is mixed, mastered, pressed and printed and already in people's hands.

Given that this is a self funded release, no matter how good a mate this guy is and whatever the circumstances are that led to this situation, he's not going to bin all the sleeves and reprint them at what may be considerable expense.

Local music scenes are gossipy, incestuous little things and depending on how much of a deal you want to make to your mate/other people about this you could go from being "guy who gets called for sessions" to "guy who had to be fixed by the producer" to "guy who had to be fixed and threw his toys out of the pram over it". I don't know the circles you're in and the work you do so I could be wildly exaggerating but its food for thought.

Personally, as galling as it would be I'd chalk it up to experience, move on and learn from it. This kind of thing happens all the time at every level and if the project was on a tight budget/timescale it could be that they got far enough into the sessions to see that something didn't sit right against your bass part and that if there's someone sat right there in the room who can fix it then its quicker/cheaper to do that than to arrange another session to bring you back.

Like others have said, given the technology commonplace in studios now, it may well still be you (in whole or in part) just adjusted afterwards.

If the artist in question is a good mate, then he may well be concerned about how you'd react to the news of it and have felt that uncomfortable that he's done the easy (albeit wrong, really) thing and said nothing. As others have suggested he might not know himself.

I've sat on both sides of the glass and I've been the guy replacing someone else's parts when the band have gone home. Producers/engineers want everything that goes out with their name on to sound its best and sometimes that means things like this happen quietly and the band are none the wiser.

I can understand your feelings, but I'd question what positive things can possibly come from making a big deal out of it to your friend.

[TimR]

Sometimes whole songs have been ghosted after the band have left...