ambient Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 If there were no for sale section then how would the site manage ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonybassplayer Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Must admit I have sold and bought a few bits through the site previously so I am going to put a donation in. Should have done it before as i log on every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 [quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1371475417' post='2114253'] Those people that have criticised the fees are entitled to their opinion and should not have to suffer the jibes of other members who hold a different view. [/quote] People should to an extent be able to say what they want providing it's put across in a polite manner but I can't help feeling the detractors of the new system should instead look elsewhere to sell instead of begrudging the new system publicly. I'm sure what they'd rapidly find out is that the second hand is slow everywhere, and that there simply isn't a better place online to buy and sell bass specific products second hand than the second largest bass forum in the world, probably the most popular one in Europe certainly. In fact the Eurocentric nature of the site IMO and IME makes it incredibly easy to shift instruments, providing you've got a bit of patience to deal with a slow moving second hand market which is true of everywhere right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I joined for trade, wouldn't have if it was paid at the time. I recently made number 4 by posts. Which would have felt like more of an achievement if the person I just pushed off the spot has not moved on to the forum in the sky quite some time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1371474152' post='2114231'] Worth remembering that the fee was introduced because only 4% of sales generated a donation. If more of us had slipped a few quid in the kitty, then the fees wouldn't have been needed. [/quote] [quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1371475915' post='2114268'] I was genuinely surprised when i saw how few sellers actually made a donation. It was inevitable that a fee would have to come in with so few making a donation. [/quote] Yes. I find it sad and annoying that so many "members" were happy to join up, sell some stuff, then piss off into the ether again with their bulging wallets. From the stats above, it is very clear that a lot of the regular membership saw no problem with using this site as a platform to sell their stuff and not paying for that service in any way Maybe the list of donors should be published? Name and shame? But sadly that is the nature of modern society. Get what you can and screw the rest. "Survival of the fittest" Gits. Edited June 17, 2013 by Conan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 [quote name='BurritoBass' timestamp='1371475574' post='2114260'] Personally I ran out of gear to sell, but that's divorce for you! [/quote] I probably shouldn't, but Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 [quote name='Conan' timestamp='1371479514' post='2114331'] Maybe the list of donors should be published? Name and shame? [/quote] That is private information between the donor and BC. And how would it work? Compromising information of the "good guys" in order to "shame" everyone else? If your name's not on this list then you're a horrible person? This is one of the stupidest things I've seen written on BC for some time and I won't be apologising for holding that opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fumps Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I'm still a little baffled why anyone would feel put out by these charges. I mean if you pay £20 for a year's trading anything you want, that literally cost's £1.66 per month ......And a person seriously is thinking twice about this ? I paid my £20 for the year, it's really nowt & what's more I feel better for helping to run this site. I find it a bit twattish that someone will happily pay charges to E-bay to sell an item but moan when they are actually asked to contribute to a website that gives you contact with good people, free advice, and a great source for buying more cheap kit. So there are people who will happily use this site for free, ignore the time ad cost that the Mods & Admin put into this site & begrudge paying the equivalent of few pints with the mrs down the pub ? I do feel that some people should take stock of what they get out of something.....It's usually what they put in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) [quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1371475417' post='2114253'] I don't know if you're having a go at me here or not [/quote] Not in the least, Sir. Your views have always been fair and - correspondingly - I'd respect them whether you were pro or con the issue. It's good that you propose an alternative commission-based system, but IIRC there was a view that implementing and policing such a system would entail more work for the mods. Perhaps it might be revisited in due course. My problem is that - reading some of the posts from BC-ers old and new - they still don't seem to get it that: * Ped and Kiwi were supporting the forum out of their own pockets at a personal loss. * They tried soliciting donations. The uptake was insufficient to cover their loss. * Faced with introducing a fee, they consulted with the forum, solicited input and proposed a sliding scale which would be reviewed at a future date * It was clear that sales might drop off and that we might debate this at a future point, which we are. Perhaps I am mistaken, but I get the sense from posts both then and now that some of us view the fees as an unwarranted imposition and contrary to the spirit of the forum. They perhaps see the decline in new 'for sale' posts as a kind of failure - and a big one at that. My view is that fees of some kind were unavoidable; the decision-making process was both sound and fair; and that the marketplace has held up better than I'd have expected given the additionally tightening economic circumstances. Edited June 17, 2013 by skankdelvar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstriper Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 [quote name='risingson' timestamp='1371477538' post='2114294'] People should to an extent be able to say what they want providing it's put across in a polite manner but I can't help feeling the detractors of the new system should instead look elsewhere to sell instead of begrudging the new system publicly. [/quote] I have not seen anyone being impolite, (apart from in Conan's post above) and those that do not like the new system are doing exactly what you suggest - hence, (at least in part) the decline the OP refers to. I have never begrudged the fees publicly or privately, but their effect is obvious so why can't we discuss it without being made to feel like traitors? Is it not even slightly possible that the new system is not working as well as envisaged and there may be a better alternative? It is disturbing to see those brave enough to admit they don't like the fees being ganged up on by those that do, simply for holding a different opinion and calling the 96% of basschatters who did not donate under the old system 'twats' is not very polite or helpful to the debate. Skank - it's a relief to know we are on the same side, which is to see BC thrive as a place we all feel welcome to share our views openly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DorsetBlue Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 [quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1371479861' post='2114342'] That is private information between the donor and BC. And how would it work? Compromising information of the "good guys" in order to "shame" everyone else? If your name's not on this list then you're a horrible person? This is one of the stupidest things I've seen written on BC for some time and I won't be apologising for holding that opinion. [/quote] Pretty sure the Information Commissioner would take a very dim view of such a thing too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geddys nose Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 [quote name='fumps' timestamp='1371479983' post='2114344'] I'm still a little baffled why anyone would feel put out by these charges. I mean if you pay £20 for a year's trading anything you want, that literally cost's £1.66 per month ......And a person seriously is thinking twice about this ? I paid my £20 for the year, it's really nowt & what's more I feel better for helping to run this site. I find it a bit twattish that someone will happily pay charges to E-bay to sell an item but moan when they are actually asked to contribute to a website that gives you contact with good people, free advice, and a great source for buying more cheap kit. So there are people who will happily use this site for free, ignore the time ad cost that the Mods & Admin put into this site & begrudge paying the equivalent of few pints with the mrs down the pub ? I do feel that some people should take stock of what they get out of something.....It's usually what they put in [/quote] Pretty much my view , Well said Sir. I'm also a Member of Talkbass but not really active but still pay up every year to support the site I enjoy, It would be a sad loss to lose either site just for a lack of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) [quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1371479861' post='2114342']This is one of the stupidest things I've seen written on BC for some time and I won't be apologising for holding that opinion.[/quote] Suit yerself mate! I'm reading some rather silly comments in this thread too. But I suspect we're not talking about the same things... Also, it wasn't suggested as an entirely serious strategy Nobody is forced to be a member of this site. Nobody is forced to sell items on this site. So why anyone would complain about a fairly nominal fee to allow that selling is beyond me. Seven quid to sell one item? And then you keep the entire selling price rather than having to "share" some of it with the site that allowed you to sell that item? Edited June 17, 2013 by Conan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I'd pay anyway, even if I wasn't selling anything. I used to donate a bit every year. How much is a subscription to a magazine? BC is a bargain in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstriper Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Perhaps a membership fee of say £1.00 per year would help BC survive? Just a thought, shoot me down in flames if you must......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 [quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1371480563' post='2114353'] Skank - it's a relief to know we are on the same side, which is to see BC thrive as a place we all feel welcome to share our views openly [/quote] Of course we are. Debate is always good, trouble is someone's got to pay for the platform. In the real world, we'd also be getting stiffed for the tea and biscuits. As for the 'twats' thing, I might prefer the term parsimonious. And even then, I'm sure some people might have forgotten to donate at the time but might have sent in a few bob at a later juncture. It's not possible to generalise. But 4% is a bit shabby by anyone's standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 [quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1371480563' post='2114353'] I have not seen anyone being impolite, (apart from in Conan's post above) [/quote] On reflection, you may have a point there I am not as erudite as Messrs Del Var and Fumps when it comes to getting my point across. I believe it is a Taurean characteristic, so blame my mam. I didn't ask to be born you know... And I think it is fair to say that nobody actually [i]wants[/i] the fees. I'm sure we would all rather that the service is free. But that didn't work and I can't see it working in the future. But yes - the word "twats" was probably a bit strong, and I apologise for that. Although it was more an expression of exasperation than an attempt at name-calling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fumps Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 [quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1371480563' post='2114353'] It is disturbing to see those brave enough to admit they don't like the fees being ganged up on by those that do, simply for holding a different opinion and calling the 96% of basschatters who did not donate under the old system 'twats' is not very polite or helpful to the debate. [/quote] I'm pretty shocked that people feel like they are being ganged up on. It's a real shame, but the fact remains that people pay for all of this. Nothing is for free I'm sorry to say. I feel that a small contribution to the running of the site is only fair. or do people think it isn't ? maybe their views are subject to debate but I honestly cannot see how money can be raised in any other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 [quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1371481068' post='2114364'] Perhaps a membership fee of say £1.00 per year would help BC survive? Just a thought, shoot me down in flames if you must......... [/quote] No flames here! If that generated enough income to keep the site going, and led to more traffic through the for sale sections - then I'd be all for that. But surely we would then have complaints from people who have no desire to sell anything and regard this platform as something that exists for their benefit? It's an awkward one and I don't think you can please all of the people all of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstriper Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 There are various ways that web sites attract revenue, but we are going a bit OT now. Some suggestions specific to the OP are, a membership fee, advertising and/or commission on sales. Perhaps members could be offered the choice of no fee to read posts, or a small annual fee to allow them to post and trade on the site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earbrass Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1371481333' post='2114367'] Debate is always good, trouble is someone's got to pay for the platform. In the real world, we'd also be getting stiffed for the tea and biscuits. [/quote] I don't appear to be receiving the tea and biscuits (though I do recall getting a message about cookies - haven't seen them yet though either). Should I upgrade my browser? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Actually, I'm now wondering if [i][b]dramatically declined[/b][/i] involves striking a pose and shouting theatrically: [b]"No! No!! And thrice No!!!"[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 [quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1371480563' post='2114353'] I have not seen anyone being impolite, (apart from in Conan's post above) and those that do not like the new system are doing exactly what you suggest - hence, (at least in part) the decline the OP refers to. I have never begrudged the fees publicly or privately, but their effect is obvious so why can't we discuss it without being made to feel like traitors? Is it not even slightly possible that the new system is not working as well as envisaged and there may be a better alternative? It is disturbing to see those brave enough to admit they don't like the fees being ganged up on by those that do, simply for holding a different opinion and calling the 96% of basschatters who did not donate under the old system 'twats' is not very polite or helpful to the debate. [/quote] I wasn't referring to you, or indeed anyone in particular with my first point, sorry about that if there was a misunderstanding. I didn't refer to anyone as a 'traitor' or a 'twat' though either, nor was it my intention to refer to anyone who disagreed with me as such. I just consider the answer to be very simple, which is to sell elsewhere on the internet if it's unpalatable for you (or anyone! No one in particular) to pay £20 for a year's unlimited worth of advertising. Regardless of whether you agree or not, the decision was made by the forum owners who pay for this place to exist so it's kind of a done deal after the discussion over it a few month's back. My experience tells me this is the best place to sell so I consider it to be a bargain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clauster Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) From what I've seen, there's still a healthy amount of for-sale stuff in the fora. What's definitely gone are the "feeler" ads and the really exotic stuff (the left handed, 9 string, semi-fretless Shudera an Trolembic with 7 band parametric eq, spalted truffle root top and laser etched in a paisley pattern walrus ivory fretboard). Edit: and of course, really clanky, ugly American basses that fall to bits (both authentic and otherwise) Edited June 17, 2013 by clauster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 [quote name='cloudburst' timestamp='1371389430' post='2113204'] The Basschat marketplace used to be really vibrant. Some really interesting stuff came up pretty much every day, giving the site a real constant "draw". It seems now that this consistent trading has pretty much died off. Has anyone noticed this? Is it just me? Are there any other sites (apart from Talkbass) that still have an interesting marketplace? CB [/quote] It nearly seems like every marketplace is struggling now. Not just that, but sites like Facebook are on a steady decline too, as far as I have noticed. I think people are just trying to offload the stuff they don't need and hang on to the good stuff in case something really bad happens, and they need the money, or maybe they are hanging on to it until the market picks up, but it seems to be the norm everywhere. Personally, I've steered clear of the market place recently, due to lack of funds, and not wanting to fritter away whatever funds I do have, then need to buy something I actually need (which is the reason I have the money in the first place). Hopefully though, it'll pick up again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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