Trading and selling on Basschat seems to have dramatically declined

[Jacqueslemac]

I bought most of my basses through Basschat, but will think twice before selling them on here now, I'm afraid.

As it happens, I did put several basses up for sale a few months ago (pre-fee and I didn't know the fee was to be introduced). The prices I asked were around the price I paid for them, so paying a fee does seem a bit harsh as I'm not looking to make a profit.

As it was, only one sold. I'm in no hurry to sell the others, but the threads have been locked anyway, so I guess they'll quietly slip into the nether regions of the For Sale zone.

My inclination now is to hold on to them and then put them on eBay for a higher price to help pay the commission. Who knows, I may even make a profit - something I was reluctant to do when selling to other Basschatters.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Jacqueslemac

[flyfisher]

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1371396411' post='2113321']
I think it is inevitable that, when a totally free resource becomes one that you have to pay for, then a decline will occur.

I too think it is a reasonable fee, but still, the move from free to not free, is bound to have an impact.
[/quote]

I reckon a lot of websites are finding this. People are used to the web being free so if a website they've previously used for free starts to charge for something, people will inevitably look around for another website offering the same or a similar service.

Of course £20 a year is not a lot, but it's £20 more than you have to pay on some other sites. Whether they are as good or not is a different matter, but people will only find that out by trying them and I'd bet that's what a lot of people are doing.

Give it six months or so to gauge the real impact.

[karlfer]

Yup. The point I was trying to make was I used to be able to say to a FEEBayer;
"Nice bass, you want to try selling it on Basschat, it costs nothing to join, or to put an ad up for your bass"
Obviously I can't do that now.
Mind the prices some goons put out on Bumtree and FreeLoved, they are obviously not considering that the same price on FEEBay has about 13.5% to come off in fees.

[redstriper]

I don't find it surprising that the fee might put some people off.
Ebay is free or very cheap to list with no sale no fee and it reaches a much larger audience.
There are many for sale pages on Facebook which are also free and there are also places like Gumtree.
It may be particularly the aspect of paying before your item sells that people don't like, because of the risk involved if it doesn't sell.
It's very easy to photograph your item and post on a free site, so why pay for the privilege?
Also, people may now browse the items wanted or for trade sections more, instead of listing their item for sale and just wait for someone who is looking for their item.

I am not saying the fees are unreasonable, just offering a possible explanation.

Edit:
I have spoken to a number of members privately who have expressed their unhappiness with the fees, but they are reticent of saying anything publicly, for fear of a backlash against them.

Edited June 16, 2013 by redstriper

[skankdelvar]

The real downside is that we don't get anywhere near as many TIM's and lunatics coming through the door and going crazy f**king apeshit and driving up popcorn sales as a consequence.

OTOH, that means fewer thread-wrecks for the mods to tidy up, he said, being all sensible and whatnot.

[Lozz196]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1371399015' post='2113351']
£20 a year puts people off selling on BC?

You guys surprise me.
[/quote]

Me too. I`d have thought more just a sign of the times, where most seem a bit strapped for cash.

[cloudburst]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1371401169' post='2113393']


Me too. I`d have thought more just a sign of the times, where most seem a bit strapped for cash.
[/quote]

You'd think that.

However, the recession has gripped us for years now, and there were still loads of ads until relatively recently.

I've had a couple of cash offers of £1750 for one of my Steinbergers (which I've declined) so there must be cash around.

CB

Edited June 16, 2013 by cloudburst

[BassBod]

I certainly don't consider the fee to be high - it gives you a years access to the best informed and bass-addicted market place....more limited than Evilbay certainly, but a lot less nut-jobs. Seems to me if something doesn't sell here then its overpriced for the current economy. Everything has its price, as they say.

[Clarky]

I think the fee is eminently reasonable. I probably spent at least that amount each year on one-off donations as a thank you to BC.

I think maybe one other consideration is that some BC'ers (myself included) are thinning the herd down and that obviously reduces trade deals and the pool of potential buyers

Edited June 16, 2013 by Clarky

[skankdelvar]

10-16 June 2012 - New Posts in Basses for Sale - 70
10-16 June 2013 - New Posts in Basses for Sale - 35

Not exactly falling off a cliff and certainly not suggestive of imminent disaster. Even so, a decline of some magnitude, though better than one might have expected given the circs.

OK, this is a very crude analysis. Taking a whole month (or two) would be better, but me looking at the screen and counting out loud is disturbing the Missus. I suppose we could look at the types of bass for sale or the range of opening prices to see what's happening in greater detail. If it's the lower cost stuff that's gone walkies to ebay, then that tells us one thing. If the decline is evenly spread from cheap to pricey, there may be something else going on.

It's all vaguely academic, anyway, because [i]without[/i] the fee Ped & Kiwi might be living out of a dumpster and we'd all be saying 'Shame about BassChat going tits-up. God, these septics are a bit snirpy and - what's a Dairy Queen?'.

Let us hope that particular cataclysm has been avoided.

Edited June 16, 2013 by skankdelvar

[redstriper]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1371402139' post='2113409']
10-16 June 2012 - New Posts in Basses for Sale - 70
10-16 June 2013 - New Posts in Basses for Sale - 35

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Not exactly falling off a cliff and certainly not suggestive of imminent disaster. Even so, a decline of some magnitude, though better than one might have expected given the circs.[/font][/color]
[/quote]

That's a very significant decline - to which circs do you refer?

[Jellyfish]

Still plenty of stuff I want on there.

[Lfalex v1.1]

Fees, low-ballers, lack of TIM, lack of funds...
There's some reasons for a marketplace showing a decline in interest/input.

[BetaFunk]

You don't seem to get as many posts like 'not sure if i really want to sell this....' or 'this is just a feeler...' so perhaps that has something to do with it.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1371404091' post='2113439']
That's a very significant decline - to which circs do you refer?
[/quote]

Well, I meant the general circs of implementing a sellers' fee during times of declining real income. At the time, I reckoned to myself that posts might decline by as much as 75% or more - which it [i]may[/i] have done, because I only looked at +/ YOY over one week.

Thing is, if it had always been 'paid-for advertising', the decline in revenue would be a problem. As it is, that's a 50% decline in postings and a 100% increase in revenue to the forum from this source. Makes the pain easier to bear, I think.

The only real negative to my mind is the deterrent effect on newbs who arrive here as sellers and stick around. But as other research seems to suggest that only about 5% of us signed up for that reason, we're probably not looking at big numbers.

5% of 26,000 is about 1300 over 5 years = 260 PA or 5 per week. Of the 35 lost posts, that means that - perhaps - 30 of the 35 'missing' posts were by existing members. All very speculative though. Were I Ped or Kiwi, I'd be getting my people to look at this sort of thing on a longer-term basis.

Edited June 16, 2013 by skankdelvar

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1371405454' post='2113466']
5% of 26,000 is about 1300 over 5 years = 260 PA or 5 per week. Of the 35 lost posts, that means that - perhaps - 30 of the 35 'missing' posts were by existing members. All very speculative though. Were I Ped or Kiwi, I'd be getting my people to look at this sort of thing on a longer-term basis.
[/quote]

Also, because the forum is broken and sends you a notification for every response you get to a thread, I reckon the amount of traffic will have reduced in general. There's less reason to visit now.

If I were them, I'd make fixing that a priority. Bums on seats is everything.

[Truckstop]

There's loads of 'wanted' ads about so there must be some people with money to burn!

Truckstop

[Bassection]

I'd happily pay the £20 if I sold often, but I don't think I sell enough things to warrant paying it.

Shame too, because I currently have more to sell than I ever have, but don't think it's worth the £20 to have a [i]chance[/i] at selling them.

[woodyratm]

The £20 is too much for me to justfy with the little items i'm selling now.
And the one off fee is pretty high too IMO.

I've found groups on facebook to be useful for the few items i've sold (grey stache etc)

Which is a shame. just doesn't seem the same around here now - everyones either mega-clicky or seem more moody. Think that's why I'm spending much less time on BC.

[redstriper]

26,000 is a lot of members, but how many visit regularly and keep the place fresh and interesting?

A number of previous regulars have told me privately that they don't come as often now because of the fees.
They are afraid to 'come out' with their views publicly, but they feel the place isn't the same as it was.

Asking people to pay up front for a service is never popular, which is why listing fees are so low or even free on Ebay.
It's a shame there is no way to charge fees as a commission after a sale, instead of up front.
This could have worked on a trust basis and while some people might have abused it, many would just pay like they do on ebay.
It's a model that works very well for Reaper, where you download and use the software free, only paying if you want to on an honesty basis - many don't pay, but a very significant number do.
This number may be higher on Basschat, which is more able to police itself through the good will of it's members.
It may also be seen as fairer to charge people a percentage of the money they make, rather than the same fee if you make £100 a year as £10,000.

I am not trying to upset anyone here and I wouldn't presume to advise the admins or mods - I'm just trying to help
In fact I was not consciously aware of the problem until it was voiced in this post, but now it's 'out there', I will agree that there seems a lot less action in the for sale section and it makes the place less interesting.

[icastle]

[quote name='Jacqueslemac' timestamp='1371399239' post='2113355']
I'm in no hurry to sell the others, but the threads have been locked anyway, so I guess they'll quietly slip into the nether regions of the For Sale zone.
[/quote]

Pinned in each Marketplace forum is a notice regarding locked threads.

It makes perfectly clear that if anyone has an old advert that is still valid, all it takes is a PM and it'll be unlocked.

If I'm sat at my PC when the request arrives then it gets actioned within a minute - and that includes writing a PM back to the person to let them know it's been done.

We really couldn't have made it any easier.

[martin8708]

The bass guitar section seems to bumble along , but the amp section seems to have slowed to snails pace as far as new items are concerned .

The economy and the new fee's are probably the easiest factors to blame , but I also think there is just a lack of confidence amongst prospective buyers as they prefer to hang on to the money they have , rather than buy themselves a new amp or bass. These days no job seems safe , even those working for civil service / government are not safe from the axe . People have just gone into self preservation mode

[Marvin]

[quote name='woodyratm' timestamp='1371406999' post='2113494']
The £20 is too much for me to justfy with the little items i'm selling now.
And the one off fee is pretty high too IMO.

I've found groups on facebook to be useful for the few items i've sold (grey stache etc)

Which is a shame. just doesn't seem the same around here now - everyones either mega-clicky or seem more moody. Think that's why I'm spending much less time on BC.


[/quote]

Very similar sentiments from me.

I don't sell enough to justify paying £20/year to do so on here. I've only a couple of items I wish to sell, both of which would be above the free limit, but not worth enough to pay the fees on basschat. The single ad fee is very high IMO. The single annual fee is fine if you're constantly buying or trading, I'm not.

I've looked to other places to sell my gear, like Facebook and Gumtree. Only this afternoon I sold some gear to someone, albeit a basschatter, but then it didn't cost me anything. As Mr Foxen pointed out, if you time it right you can place an ad on eBay for free and if the item doesn't sell you've lost nothing, and it's a bigger audience.

As for the site itself, this is the first week I've posted in 2 months and tbh I'll probably leave it at that. The forum has lost it's zing and humour. It's a pretty grumpy place and many of the opinions are almost embarrassing to read.

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='Bassection' timestamp='1371406954' post='2113492']
I'd happily pay the £20 if I sold often, but I don't think I sell enough things to warrant paying it.

Shame too, because I currently have more to sell than I ever have, but don't think it's worth the £20 to have a [i]chance[/i] at selling them.
[/quote]
I sold just [u]one[/u] bass on BC and the £20 was under half what it would have cost me on ebay.

I use both BC and ebay to buy and sell. Although the listing fee may not look much on ebay it soon adds up if the items sells. It's swings and roundabouts.

Edited June 16, 2013 by BetaFunk

[icastle]

[quote name='martin8708' timestamp='1371408103' post='2113516']
The economy and the new fee's are probably the easiest factors to blame , but I also think there is just a lack of confidence amongst prospective buyers as they prefer to hang on to the money they have , rather than buy themselves a new amp or bass. These days no job seems safe , even those working for civil service / government are not safe from the axe . People have just gone into self preservation mode
[/quote]

+1

That's pretty much the way I see it.

I'm pretty sure that if we had implemented fees 'pre recession', we'd not be having this discussion now.