Trading and selling on Basschat seems to have dramatically declined

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='clauster' timestamp='1371486130' post='2114448']
From what I've seen, there's still a healthy amount of for-sale stuff in the fora. What's definitely gone are the "feeler" ads and the really exotic stuff (the left handed, 9 string, semi-fretless Shudera an Trolembic with 7 band parametric eq, spalted truffle root top and laser etched in a paisley pattern walrus ivory fretboard).
[/quote]

There's a fine line between interesting and stupidly mental... that bass can't even see that line anymore

[timmo]

Before I had heard of this site, I bought my first Bass 4 months ago from Ebay which I paid £300, I could probably have got it maybe £250 ish, but I couldn`t be bothered to wait so had it on buy it now. It is a Warwick Fortress Rockbass, They were going for around £200- £300 then, but now I would be lucky to get £175 I reckon. The market place has definitely quietened down. If I get any proficiency to play it, I would rather buy from here than anywhere else. If only I had heard of this site before I bought one, as the stuff I see on here for the money would have netted me a nicer bass for not much more than £300
I would quite happily pay £20 a year as it is worth it, as you can`t really put a value on the experience people are willing to impart freely.

Edited June 17, 2013 by timmo

[JTUK]

The thing about fees is that people ask what the money is going on.
If the site costs X, and they raise X+Y through fees...where does the extra money go..?
Whose is it (money ) o do as they will..?
The site raise X-Y, then how do you know that..?

Is the aim to make money... cover costs only..??
Is it a club..?? what are the member benefits etc etc
What is the site worth... and what is the value of the knowledge that people contribute freely in a communial sense..??

I think the owners have been pretty low key is requesting money to run the site...which is a good thing, generally, but
the question of a fee brings with it a lot of questions and maybe the need for more openess.

I think this sort of issue comes to every forum once it reaches a certain size with certain costs.
If you have blanket fees, do you want to publish accounts..??

There will be people who will want to pay the fees and people who wont...??

The best I can suggest is a sum published of how short the contributions are in regard to running costs...so you have a donation blitz as it were.
Anything more than that might prompt questions being asked about how much the adverts generate, bla bla...

As I say..how far do you want to go with all this...??

[flyfisher]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1371480138' post='2114347']

My problem is that - reading some of the posts from BC-ers old and new - they still don't seem to get it that:

* Ped and Kiwi were supporting the forum out of their own pockets at a personal loss.

[/quote]

While undoubtedly true, with respect, it doesn't place any obligation on members to contribute to the running costs as well. Who knows the owner's motivation? Indeed, why is it even relevant? BC is a bit like a shop - the owners fund the costs and invite people to come in and browse. There's no obligation to buy anything - some will and some won't, the decliners probably being in the majority.

Fairness doesn't really come into it, or if you think it does then you may also think it would be fair to charge people to enter a shop, even if they don't buy anything, because it's 'unfair' on those who do buy stuff and therefore fund the shop that loads of people merely browse in.

In short, the owners can set whatever rules they wish and if the members don't like it then they'll move on.

[mushers]

enough of all this ! get over to the market place and buy my bass

but seriously i paid the 20 notes last week i listed a couple of bits if they dont sell soon im not bothered, i know they will sell well before my year is up and the £20 was cheaper than ebay fees

i have noticed less ads but as has already been said far less feelers or maybe for sale titles

[karlfer]

WOT, not everybody spends more than £20 in a weekend in the pub. The only time I go to the pub is when I'm gigging. It was an Englishman's right to go to the pub for centuries, but it is now the wealthy Englishman's right.
Risingson, second hand may be slow everywhere, however my last three items have brought only interest on here. All three were on hold within a couple of days of going on Bumtree.
Conan, bit naughty fella, glad you have changed your mind a bit.
Fumps, as we all know, FEEBay only charge after you have sold, not before.
On a wider note, the fee was introduced on the sales fora, however, it was, in my understanding, to benefit the whole site?
Karl.

Edited June 17, 2013 by karlfer

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1371495890' post='2114670']
WOT, not everybody spends more than £20 in a weekend in the pub.
[/quote]

Didn't say they did

[peteb]

From a personal point of view, £20 is eminently reasonable if you are selling a bass or amp with the added bonus of helping to keep the site ticking over!

However…

I currently have a reasonably expensive bass to sell but I think that BC is probably not the best place to sell this particular bass given the current market. Never the less, in the past I would have put it up as a feeler to see if anyone here fancies it but I must admit that the £20 fee has put me off doing that! At some point in the next year I will probably be selling a pedal that I’m pretty confident will sell quickly and I have no problem with the £7 one off fee for doing that. I appreciate that the chaps running the site shouldn’t catch a cold for doing so and I have no intention of questioning how they raise advertising revenue or finance. But I do hope that they do not introduce a membership fee as such. If it is a fiver (or even £10) I would pay it without question, but any more will start to make you think! The site will start to lose members and more importantly, will struggle to get new ones.

And whoever said that the recession is not a factor is completely wrong. I’m lucky enough to still have a decent job for the next year or so, but after that who knows?? And I am earning considerably less from gigging these days. I sold a Stingray on here a couple of years ago (to one of our esteemed mods as it happens) and I quite fancy getting another one. I have been watching several nice Rays on eBay going for a song, but I haven’t put any serious bids in for them. I am not prepared to carry even a modest amount of extra debt these days whereas a few years ago it would not have bothered me…

[Stan_da_man]

I thought the fee was introduced to stop people posting threads along the lines of "Best bass I've ever played but it's not for me".

£20 will appear very quickly if you lay off the crack for a while.

[Gust0o]

I'd positively encourage people to give Ped and Kiwi feedback. It's the only way to improve, after all.

I do.

[The Dark Lord]

[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1371481068' post='2114364']
Perhaps a membership fee of say £1.00 per year would help BC survive?

Just a thought, shoot me down in flames if you must.........
[/quote]

What would make you think that basschat's survival is in question?

[MiltyG565]

£20 for an entire year's worth of ads? Bargain, if you sell a lot of stuff!

This is, let's not forget, the world's second largest bass guitar forum in the world, and the largest in the EU. If you do want to sell bass gear, I can think of no better place! I've tried and failed to sell things locally, but things always seem to sell better on here, just because of the nature of the place.

Ped and Kiwi know this, so why wouldn't they charge for it if they were trying to make the forum self sufficient?

[peteb]

[quote name='Gust0o' timestamp='1371500266' post='2114786']
I'd positively encourage people to give Ped and Kiwi feedback. It's the only way to improve, after all.

I do.
[/quote]
I think that what they are doing is probably the best course of action available.

You might see a drop of new ads in the ‘For Sale’ sections (partly because of the insertion fees and partly because of the recession) but as Skank said, every ad that does come in is extra income that wasn’t being received before. £20 is not a bad deal for a continuous listing on a specialist site aimed at your potential buyers when you might be paying nearly as much for a one off advert in other places. However, you will get less feelers or trade offers – hardly the end of the world…

[redstriper]

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1371504170' post='2114852']
What would make you think that basschat's survival is in question?
[/quote]

I was under the impression that the fees were introduced as an alternative to closing the forum due to it's running costs.
If not - why were they introduced?

[icastle]

We had our [b]TWO MILLIONTH[/b] post on Basschat today thanks to Ped and Kiwi putting their hands in their pockets so that the site could thrive over the last five years.

[tedmanzie]

i don't mind the £20 yearly fee, but i'd rather pay a small fee per listing - eg £2 - but don't know if this would generate the required income.

Edited June 17, 2013 by tedmanzie

[flyfisher]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1371504180' post='2114853']
Ped and Kiwi know this, so why wouldn't they charge for it if they were trying to make the forum self sufficient?
[/quote]

How do we know they're just trying to make the forum self-sufficient? How do we know they're not working on a business plan to develop a web resource, build its value and then sell it to the highest bidder for millions, splitting the money and retiring?

I don't know either way and I don't really care - it's entirely up to them - but I wonder if people would view things differently when asked to help fund a 'community' resource or help fund early retirement for a couple of entrepreneurs?

[lurksalot]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1371507368' post='2114908']
We had our [b]TWO MILLIONTH[/b] post on Basschat today thanks to Ped and Kiwi putting their hands in their pockets so that the site could thrive over the last five years.
[/quote]

which was it , it surely deserves one of Peds Prizes

£20 , paid straight away , not because I have stuff to sell, but as an appreciation of the resource I draw very strongly on , hey I get to sell or trade for free now , result ..... Hmmmm ....thinks trading could be fun on some stuff I have gathering both dust and an earfull from SWMBO

[icastle]

[quote name='lurksalot' timestamp='1371507925' post='2114924']
which was it , it surely deserves one of Peds Prizes
[/quote]

I'm trying to track it down at the moment and I'm sure there'll be a prize for that.

[lurksalot]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1371507827' post='2114918']
How do we know they're just trying to make the forum self-sufficient? How do we know they're not working on a business plan to develop a web resource, build its value and then sell it to the highest bidder for millions, splitting the money and retiring?

I don't know either way and I don't really care - it's entirely up to them - but I wonder if people would view things differently when asked to help fund a 'community' resource or help fund early retirement for a couple of entrepreneurs?
[/quote]

While I can't argue your right to say it , it does come across a bit 'Daily Mail' ish, little churps like this may seem insightful in some ways , but does it really contribute to anything .

[icastle]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1371507827' post='2114918']
How do we know they're just trying to make the forum self-sufficient? How do we know they're not working on a business plan to develop a web resource, build its value and then sell it to the highest bidder for millions, splitting the money and retiring?

I don't know either way and I don't really care - it's entirely up to them - but I wonder if people would view things differently when asked to help fund a 'community' resource or help fund early retirement for a couple of entrepreneurs?
[/quote]

I've heard that Bacofoil makes the best hats...

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1371492925' post='2114589']
While undoubtedly true, with respect, it doesn't place any obligation on members to contribute to the running costs as well. Who knows the owner's motivation? Indeed, why is it even relevant? BC is a bit like a shop - the owners fund the costs and invite people to come in and browse. There's no obligation to buy anything - some will and some won't, the decliners probably being in the majority.

Fairness doesn't really come into it, or if you think it does then you may also think it would be fair to charge people to enter a shop, even if they don't buy anything, because it's 'unfair' on those who do buy stuff and therefore fund the shop that loads of people merely browse in.

In short, the owners can set whatever rules they wish and if the members don't like it then they'll move on.
[/quote]

Thing is, the site isn't a shop. I think of it more as a free tourist attraction with a cafe on the side. Looking's free, but if you want a nice cup of tea and a slice of cake there's a charge which goes to help keep the whole thing standing.

In the same way visitors (whether members or not) can read the forum, and look at ads. If they want to ask questions or buy stuff via PM, they have to join up, still free. If they want to sell something, thereby gaining some kind of specific financial benefit, they get charged for buying access to the market.

As for charging people to enter a shop whether they buy or not, well, I think it's stretching the analogy unless BC had been contemplating a blanket membership fee.

Anyhow, I've banged on enough about this. I think it's fair, acceptable and democratically accountable but I know other people don't feel the same. And it doesn't matter anyway, because the fee system's in place until the owners decide otherwise.

Au'voir on this one, mes petits chou-fleurs!

Edited June 17, 2013 by skankdelvar

[lurksalot]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1371508505' post='2114933']
Thing is, the site isn't a shop. I think of it more as a free tourist attraction with a cafe on the side. Looking's free, but if you want a nice cup of tea and a slice of cake there's a charge which goes to help keep the whole thing standing.

In the same way visitors (whether members or not) can read the forum, ask questions, look at ads. If they want to buy stuff via PM, they have to join up, still free. If they want to sell something, thereby gaining some kind of specific financial benefit, they get charged for buying access to the market.

As for charging people to enter a shop whether they buy or not, well, I think it's stretching the analogy unless BC had been contemplating a blanket membership fee
[/quote]

A quality analogy , well done sir

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1371507827' post='2114918']
How do we know they're just trying to make the forum self-sufficient? How do we know they're not working on a business plan to develop a web resource, build its value and then sell it to the highest bidder for millions, splitting the money and retiring?

I don't know either way and I don't really care - it's entirely up to them - but I wonder if people would view things differently when asked to help fund a 'community' resource or help fund early retirement for a couple of entrepreneurs?
[/quote]

Who cares? Nobody is being asked to "help fund" the site, that's the point of paying for the adverts, so they don't have to rely on people's kind donations to run the site. I doubt they have a business plan for this site, but I don't even care if they do, unless they want me involved, for some reason.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='lurksalot' timestamp='1371508203' post='2114929']
While I can't argue your right to say it , it does come across a bit 'Daily Mail' ish, little churps like this may seem insightful in some ways , but does it really contribute to anything .
[/quote]

I was just offering an alternative speculation to the seemingly prevailing speculation that the owners had been funding the site out of the goodness of their hearts but now need a bit of extra cash to keep things going, hence the introduction of charges for selling stuff.

Unless the owners announce their intentions and plans for the site we're all just guessing about such things aren't we?

(Though I'm not suggesting they should make any such announcement because as I've already said it's their site and they can do what they like with it.)