Trading and selling on Basschat seems to have dramatically declined

[flyfisher]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1371508505' post='2114933']
Thing is, the site isn't a shop.
[/quote]

Indeed, but that wasn't really my point . . . which was that all the discussion so far seems to have revolved around the idea that the owners are being altruistic in some way but things have got a bit tight and they can no longer rely on members' goodwill or the depth of their own pockets anymore so they've 'had' to introduce a nominal charge to help cover the costs and because we're all matey bassists we shouldn't begrudge a few quid for helping out fellow bassists to keep good old BC ticking over.

My point was that there's an alternative possibility based on a less altruistic and more commercial motive. Nothing wrong with that, of course, but it does introduce another dynamic and, in the absence of any hard evidence, it seems just as likely to me.

But only the owners know for sure.

[lurksalot]

I only see alltruism and a great bass/music resource and thats all that matters to me , Ok I do spend a bit of time OT but , then the internet is sometimes wrong and needs putting right .

[flyfisher]

[quote name='lurksalot' timestamp='1371512568' post='2114998']
I only see alltruism and a great bass/music resource and thats all that matters to me ,
[/quote]

That's fair enough and you might be wholly correct - it's certainly the more appealing supposition. I'm just pointing out that it [u]is[/u] supposition and that there are alternative explanations.

[icastle]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1371512789' post='2115002']
That's fair enough and you might be wholly correct - it's certainly the more appealing supposition. I'm just pointing out that it [u]is[/u] supposition and that there are alternative explanations.
[/quote]

They use the site to launder their stash of Nazi gold that they bought from the proceeds of their saccharine smuggling business in Surbiton.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1371513210' post='2115009']
They use the site to launder their stash of Nazi gold that they bought from the proceeds of their saccharine smuggling business in Surbiton.
[/quote]

It must be a VERY slow process

[icastle]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1371513457' post='2115011']
It must be a VERY slow process
[/quote]

They're in it for the long haul...

[Gust0o]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1371507827' post='2114918']
How do we know they're just trying to make the forum self-sufficient? How do we know they're not working on a business plan to develop a web resource, build its value and then sell it to the highest bidder for millions, splitting the money and retiring?
[/quote]

I'm sure they daydream of such, but who doesn't?

Pragmatically, not even close, however. Forums are good for community hubs, but the kit is out there - you're missing the killer app, the product, which you can sell. I've queried before whether they had any more corporate aims, and have always been referred back to the community.

I should reference GuitarChat, which is a new project they're working on - even that is couched in community terms. I think there's an acceptance that you're not going to retire on the strength of something like this - but it might break even, or give a little money; but will certainly have big personal rewards, for those so inclined to see them.

From all that I've seen or had said to me, they work regular jobs like most of us. I'm sure there has been ad income, and the donations, much like you see on many forums - but their pockets have made up the rest.

I know they have their detractors, and I know we are sometimes left wondering about decisions - but I'm rather glad they put the place together, and given us that community. Sure, we're rude to each other; we gripe and groan; we re-neg on deals and cause all kinds of hassles - but it's not a bad place to chat about our common interest

[Happy Jack]

In truth, when I read some of the comments (I nearly typed "accusations") regarding Ped & Kiwi on some of these related threads, I stand amazed at their moderation and patience.

Given how little has actually been done, created or contributed by some of their detractors, I find it astonishing that people queue up to criticise a free resource that has been provided for their benefit.

If someone doesn't like the way that the Marketplace is run or funded, then they shouldn't go there.

What's the problem?

[steviedee]

Personally speaking I hope the guys who own this site do make some money. They have had a good idea and stuck with it and that should be applauded. I've been a not very active member since it's pre basschat days (bassworld?). I'm a bit embarrassed to say I didn't donate any cash until just before the fees came in, which i payed as well. I kept meaning to but just didn't get round to it. The introduction of the fees just served as a reminder that I should pony up some dough for a site I visit most days.

In saying that there is no denying that some members are put off by the fees, everyone's situation is different and I'm not criticising anyone. I dunno if the fees system is the best one but I suppose you have to balance between making some cash, pissing off existing members and discouraging new users. It seems to me to be a reasonable solution.

I have noticed the marketplace being a wee bit slow but everyone is a bit cautious at the moment. It is a really useful resource on the site so I hope it picks up.

Edited June 18, 2013 by steviedee

[Gust0o]

[quote name='steviedee' timestamp='1371543583' post='2115148']
In saying that there is no denying that some members are put off by the fees, everyone's situation is different and I'm not criticising anyone. I dunno if the fees system is the best one but I suppose you have to balance between making some cash, pissing off existing members and discouraging new users. It seems to me to be a reasonable solution.
[/quote]

In business improvement they have a saying: [i]fail fast[/i].

It doesn't mean go and break things, and get yourself in a mess - it means [i]try something[/i][i] and learn from it[/i]. That's what we're doing, to my mind, we're trying something new. We should ensure that we're learning from it, and understanding what impact the changes have - and I'll reiterate, people shouldn't feel they can't give feedback. Just hit the PM icon

[Norris]

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1371473638' post='2114223']
Ok then, tell you what, strip it down to the bare wood, have it resprayed in gloss black and I'll give you £550 for it.
[/quote]

Actually it's very similar to [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/206276-fender-us-jazz-bass-4-string-2010-blackmapletort-l699/"]this one[/url] of grahamd's that has been hanging around the for sale area for weeks, but with the original white scratch plate and lots of case candy. If his 'ain't selling at that very reasonable price, mine is unlikely to either!

Edit: Oh, and mine's a rosewood board

Edited June 18, 2013 by Norris

[flyfisher]

[quote name='Gust0o' timestamp='1371514862' post='2115024']
I'm sure they daydream of such, but who doesn't?
[/quote]

Well I know someone who actually did it, rather than just daydream, with this website: http://www.pctechguide.com/

You may be interested to read how a 'hobby' project can evolve over the years into a full-fledged business, even though this was not the original intention: http://www.pctechguide.com/pctechguide-site-design-policy/background-to-the-pc-technology-guide-wwwpctechguidecom

[Gust0o]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1371553525' post='2115328']
Well I know someone who actually did it, rather than just daydream, with this website: [url="http://www.pctechguide.com/"]http://www.pctechguide.com/[/url]

You may be interested to read how a 'hobby' project can evolve over the years into a full-fledged business, even though this was not the original intention: [url="http://www.pctechguide.com/pctechguide-site-design-policy/background-to-the-pc-technology-guide-wwwpctechguidecom"]http://www.pctechgui...wpctechguidecom[/url]
[/quote]

I'm sure it can evolve, there are many examples and I know of some myself - but, as I said, Basschat isn't there, yet. Not quashing the idea, just reflecting on the current reality - if they did want to run a business I'd expect a [i]lot[/i] more.

The real product is the discussion, as befits the community roots of the forum. And we, the members, own that

We don't do guides; we don't do lessons; we don't do journalistic reviews; we don't do apps. We do chat

[The Dark Lord]

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1371553398' post='2115323']

Actually it's very similar to [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/206276-fender-us-jazz-bass-4-string-2010-blackmapletort-l699/"]this one[/url] of grahamd's that has been hanging around the for sale area for weeks, but with the original white scratch plate and lots of case candy. If his 'ain't selling at that very reasonable price, mine is unlikely to either!

Edit: Oh, and mine's a rosewood board
[/quote]

Hi Norris. Your bass looks great - it's just that I, for my own mad reasons, only play black basses and guitars ....... although, strangely, some of my keyboards are white and red etc.

Staying "on-topic" though ......... I agree that your bass and his bass are [i]perfect[/i] tools for any kind of performer, and if they are to sell, then here ought to be a good place.

I have bought and sold USA Precisions through here of late ...... and they fetch about £500 to £550. A scandalous price, but it you are buying and selling at roughly the same time, then it's okay. I guess Jazz basses are in the same price bracket. The going price for these things is severely depressed, so I suspect people are holding on to them rather than selling or trading.

On top of the market depression, the fee thing has possibly come at the wrong time and has possibly had a detrimental effect on the marketplace section here.

The site owners will be able to look at the site page statistics and see the traffic there. However, they may have earned increased revenue from it. That might be good for them, who knows. They own the site and they can do what they like. I, for one, have no problem with that. Good luck to them.

[Norris]

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1371554604' post='2115349']
<snip>
The going price for these things is severely depressed, so I suspect people are holding on to them rather than selling or trading.
<snip>
[/quote]
... in a nutshell

And back OT, the price of a round of drinks is not a huge amount to cough up for a targeted market for selling your stuff. I'd happily pay it just for the chat, as I don't buy & sell a lot at all.

I'd still quite like to be able to 'buy' an icon to accompany my avatar - a visible but non-prejudiced sign that you have donated. (b3ta.com do a similar thing - but it's definitely a NSFW site, so don't hurl yourself against your corporate firewall trying to find it!)

[miles'tone]

This site must cost a fair bit to run and if the owners do have day jobs as well, then I for one don't begrudge them earning some dough for the time and effort it takes to keep my favourite place on the Internet alive.
If I sell a bass then what's 7 quid to cough up? I say this as somebody who has been hit very hard by the recession (one man band closing his business finally as it's costing me more to keep it open than what I make). EDIT: by this I don't mean I'm walking around town with a bass drum and hi-hats strapped to my back - I'm a tradey by day.
This means I'm not in a situation to buy anything right now so that's me out of the market place in that respect.
However, I have bass stuff that I can still trade so I do wish we could still do swapsies for free as there isn't money changing hands. But I know full well that the reality of that aspect of the market place will come with a "trade this for that with money my/your way half the time, so keeping tabs on that would be a nightmare.
The stock fees then are the easiest way to keep things fair.
Even if there were no fees I still wouldn't be buying anything right now. Things will pick up again eventually, and round and round it goes as it always has done.

Edited June 18, 2013 by miles'tone

[The Dark Lord]

[quote name='miles'tone' timestamp='1371557754' post='2115427']
This site must cost a fair bit to run ........
[/quote]

What makes you say that?

[dougal]

I am an advocate of the fee. I [i]like[/i] the fact the for sale forum is now no longer a gushing torrent where your bass would be on page three by the time you hit 'refresh' to check your listing.

I understand the decision to ban rics for sale.

That doesn't stop me being miffed that the fee I paid I understood to mean I could sell anything, and now I'm left with a Ric I'm trying to sell, and I'm having to expose myself to the risk of Gumtree or evilbay in order to do so.

[fumps]

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1371495890' post='2114670']
Fumps, as we all know, FEEBay only charge after you have sold, not before.
On a wider note, the fee was introduced on the sales fora, however, it was, in my understanding, to benefit the whole site?
Karl.
[/quote]
Cheers Karl.....I was aware of that (Insert sarcasm font) But the charge is still payable. BC is not E-bay they dont have the same systems in place to operate in the same way. And i would have thought the benefit is obvious, the fact that BC lives on. Or do you not count that as a benefit ?

Am I right in thinking some are against the charges & someone else should pay for the site other than the people who use it everyday? I'm not meaning that in a stroppy way, I'm just wondering why someone can justify using something & not offering anything in return.

Lets be fair guys. people were not paying & now Basschat is asking for help, And some people seem to begrudge this.
Going back to the idea that BC is a meeting place, free to be here, come & go as you please. I'd like to elaborate on this idea:

Now change this idea to Basschat being your house. people can come round, chill out, have a laugh, swap advice while having a good old chat in your house & garden. they can come & go as they please any time they like. But at the end of the day it's your responsibility your paying the bills & sorting out the cleaning of the house....this starts getting more and more expensive and is taking up more & more of your personal time, when you notice some people are using your house like an open market & selling items that are in most cases expensive.
So basically people are using your garden to sell stuff for (some cases) hundreds of pounds and even up to a grand and above they are still walking away with a full wallet & your still left to clean up and pay out of your own pocket just to keep the place running. they are walking away with money they have made by using the contacts they have made from being at your house, without you providing this space they could not have made the contacts they have in order to make these sales and it is still costing you money to run.......So you ask for a small cut of those sales to help out or at least break even & your visitors start to moan at you for asking for a contribution towards the running of your house that you have opened for people to use freely..........I dont know about anyone else but if that was to happen my foot would be so far up their arse, their Adams apple would be my boot.

I think peoples opinion is one way or the other: are happy to help the site or not ? I admit I'd been using the site for years before I realised that someone was paying for this site out of their own pocket & then I felt really guilty for not helping. This year I paid my £20 to trade, have I sold anything on here ? no.
did I feel ripped off ? of course not
I have used this site for years, met some great people & learned so much about music and equipment. I have even got some free stuff from people so I think that £20 is almost an insult for being so cheap.

I think people should start to see this site as something more than a thing on a screen this site is a asset not a right.

Edited June 18, 2013 by fumps

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1371558848' post='2115460']
What makes you say that?
[/quote]

I imagine the bandwidth is fairly hefty, and there's development costs.

[Silvia Bluejay]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1371559971' post='2115487']
I imagine the bandwidth is fairly hefty, and there's development costs.
[/quote]

Plus not indifferent everyday maintenance costs, up-to-date and beefed-up security, normal organisational and admin stuff, you name it. Those of us who run their own companies will nod in sympathy and could add a few more items to this list.

[JTUK]

I don't begrudge it but there are two things here... a benevolent community thing or a potential business.
I don't think you can be both so sooner or later it is make up your mind time.

As it is, the site needs to be self funding and after that, the thinking will be priofit making... IMO.
No problem with that and then people can form their own views about where to stay, pay join or whatever
but if it is a busniess, just say so...if/when the time comes.

[Gust0o]

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1371558848' post='2115460']
What makes you say that?
[/quote]

All the Rickenbacker legal fees, surely?

Joking aside, it's a good question. I'd imagine the major costs would be data usage and web development - certainly, I'm sure Kiwi and Ped have commented on the expense of the latter. The site "staff" list does list a number of people who work specifically on that side of things.

[Gust0o]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1371560258' post='2115492']
I don't begrudge it but there are two things here... a benevolent community thing or a potential business.
I don't think you can be both so sooner or later it is make up your mind time.
[/quote]

I would agree. I have said the same thing. Of course, to be a business they'd still need to work out what they were selling.

[Bassman Sam]

[quote name='fumps' timestamp='1371559630' post='2115480']
Cheers Karl.....I was aware of that (Insert sarcasm font) But the charge is still payable. BC is not E-bay they dont have the same systems in place to operate in the same way. And i would have thought the benefit is obvious, the fact that BC lives on. Or do you not count that as a benefit ?

Am I right in thinking some are against the charges & someone else should pay for the site other than the people who use it everyday? I'm not meaning that in a stroppy way, I'm just wondering why someone can justify using something & not offering anything in return.

Lets be fair guys. people were not paying & now Basschat is asking for help, And some people seem to begrudge this.
Going back to the idea that BC is a meeting place, free to be here, come & go as you please. I'd like to elaborate on this idea:

Now change this idea to Basschat being your house. people can come round, chill out, have a laugh, swap advice while having a good old chat in your house & garden. they can come & go as they please any time they like. But at the end of the day it's your responsibility your paying the bills & sorting out the cleaning of the house....this starts getting more and more expensive and is taking up more & more of your personal time, when you notice some people are using your house like an open market & selling items that are in most cases expensive.
So basically people are using your garden to sell stuff for (some cases) hundreds of pounds and even up to a grand and above they are still walking away with a full wallet & your still left to clean up and pay out of your own pocket just to keep the place running. they are walking away with money they have made by using the contacts they have made from being at your house, without you providing this space they could not have made the contacts they have in order to make these sales and it is still costing you money to run.......So you ask for a small cut of those sales to help out or at least break even & your visitors start to moan at you for asking for a contribution towards the running of your house that you have opened for people to use freely..........I dont know about anyone else but if that was to happen my foot would be so far up their arse, their Adams apple would be my boot.

I think peoples opinion is one way or the other: are happy to help the site or not ? I admit I'd been using the site for years before I realised that someone was paying for this site out of their own pocket & then I felt really guilty for not helping. This year I paid my £20 to trade, have I sold anything on here ? no.
did I feel ripped off ? of course not
I have used this site for years, met some great people & learned so much about music and equipment. I have even got some free stuff from people so I think that £20 is almost an insult for being so cheap.

I think people should start to see this site as something more than a thing on a screen this site is a asset not a right.
[/quote]

Well said Fumps, totally agree.