Patchbass Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 (edited) I would like to know opinions over these two and which one keeps the low end best and most importantly which one cuts through the mix the best as i've tried fuzzes and you turn it on and you either can't hear yourself or just can't hear the fuzz. I am asking as i don't have the chance of trying the tall font russian but I am going to see if I can get the chance to try out the big muff! All opinions are valuable to me and i would be very grateful for some replies! I'm sorry if this has been covered before but couldn't find a direct comparison! May the best pedal win! Edited June 17, 2013 by Patchbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazWills Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 (edited) not tried the deluxe bass big muff, but I used to own the std bass big muff. It was a decent enough pedal, but the tall font russian, for me, is so much better sounding. doesn't lose any bass, if anything it adds bass. i'm not interested in the new EHX pedals, not liked what I have tried. i can't see the point of a DI out on a fuzz, and I think if you want options, some of the more boutique builders are a better option (fuzzrocious, wren and cuff, etc). i don't personally go for the obsession with clean blends that a lot of folks have with dirt pedals - the stache and the TFR do not lose any bass, and sound huge. As for cutting through, I think it depends what sort of band context you use it in. muffs tend to be scooped in the mids - but my fuzzrocious grey stache has a mids control and really cuts through well when you dial this in. The TFR manages just fine, as I use it when the guitar drops out mostly, but would probably struggle in a band with 2 guitarists playing fuzzy guitars into big 4x12's! I have by no means tried all the muffs out there, but from my experience, the TFR and fuzzrocious grey stache are far better pedals than the std EHX bass big muff, and the deluxe version looks to me like a very big box with a limited range of options. For example, Fuzzrocious offer (in a smaller enclosure) diode clipping, 2nd distortion setting, add a gate, or a tone bypass - far more options than EHX offer. Edited June 16, 2013 by GazWills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazBeen Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 The new Muff is cheap and does address 2 important issues, i.e. blend option to keep fundamentals intact and the gate is great. Di and filters are pretty useless, but at half the price of a wren&cuff you can't knock it. I like the new deluxe muff, especially for price vs quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchbass Posted June 16, 2013 Author Share Posted June 16, 2013 [quote name='GazWills' timestamp='1371396030' post='2113313'] not tried the deluxe bass big muff, but I used to own the std bass big muff. It was a decent enough pedal, but the tall font russian, for me, is so much better sounding. doesn't lose any bass, if anything it adds bass. i'm not interested in the new EHX pedals, not liked what I have tried. i can't see the point of a DI out on a fuzz, and I think if you want options, some of the more boutique builders are a better option (fuzzrocious, wren and cuff, etc). i don't personally go for the obsession with clean blends that a lot of folks have with dirt pedals - the stache and the TFR do not lose any bass, and sound huge. As for cutting through, I think it depends what sort of band context you use it in. muffs tend to be scooped in the mids - but my fuzzrocious grey stache has a mids control and really cuts through well when you dial this in. The TFR manages just fine, as I use it when the guitar drops out mostly, but would probably struggle in a band with 2 guitarists playing fuzzy guitars into big 4x12's! I have by no means tried all the muffs out there, but from my experience, the TFR and fuzzrocious grey stache are far better pedals than the std EHX bass big muff, and the deluxe version looks to me like a very big box with a limited range of options. For example, Fuzzrocious offer (in a smaller enclosure) diode clipping, 2nd distortion setting, add a gate, or a tone bypass - far more options than EHX offer. [/quote] Thanks sounds like the TFR is better and anyway i play in a 3 piece and the guitarist stays fairly clean most of the time,do you prefer it over the grey stache? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danweb22 Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 COG Effects Tarkin Fuzz, nuff said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazBeen Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Yet again the my Muff clone is better than yours discussion.... fun. I like the Muff fuzz circuit and must have owned at least 10 clones that have taken that original design and then tried to better it. Some were more successful adaptations than others. Wren&Cuff and Earthbound are two of the companies that I feel have successfully taken the Muff design to a next level, I have not owned the TFR but I have owned the Pickle Pie B, which is an adaptation of the Swollen Pickle = MUFF clone. I will take Danweb22's word for it that Tom of COG has created a design with the Tarkin that is at that level. Now for all the money I have spent on boutique clones and will in future I am sure, [u]NO[/u] fuzz I have ever owned (also the non Muff designs and you can actually substitute fuzz for OD or Distortion, all have the same issues in minor or major ways) has ever fit perfectly into a band setting. However good the pedal is you always loose some definition and this impacts how well you cut through. There is a reason why the bigger acts use 2 or 3 amps to achieve their sound. We can talk merits of individual pedals over others, but at the end of the day there is no perfect solution. There are only decent solutions when using 1 amp, the Muff Deluxe is decent at a very low price, Wren&Cuff or Earthbound or Fuzzrocious or Tarkin or Tonebender will all be slightly better than the original but will not totally overcome the fundamental issues with dirt pedals. No blend or extra transistor or whatever will. Just buy whatever you believe is best (believing something is better is as important as the pedal actually being better), they are all Muff based designs and will all give you oodles of dirt whilst screwing with your sound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchbass Posted June 16, 2013 Author Share Posted June 16, 2013 [quote name='HazBeen' timestamp='1371401790' post='2113401'] Yet again the my Muff clone is better than yours discussion.... fun. I like the Muff fuzz circuit and must have owned at least 10 clones that have taken that original design and then tried to better it. Some were more successful adaptations than others. Wren&Cuff and Earthbound are two of the companies that I feel have successfully taken the Muff design to a next level, I have not owned the TFR but I have owned the Pickle Pie B, which is an adaptation of the Swollen Pickle = MUFF clone. I will take Danweb22's word for it that Tom of COG has created a design with the Tarkin that is at that level. Now for all the money I have spent on boutique clones and will in future I am sure, [u]NO[/u] fuzz I have ever owned (also the non Muff designs and you can actually substitute fuzz for OD or Distortion, all have the same issues in minor or major ways) has ever fit perfectly into a band setting. However good the pedal is you always loose some definition and this impacts how well you cut through. There is a reason why the bigger acts use 2 or 3 amps to achieve their sound. We can talk merits of individual pedals over others, but at the end of the day there is no perfect solution. There are only decent solutions when using 1 amp, the Muff Deluxe is decent at a very low price, Wren&Cuff or Earthbound or Fuzzrocious or Tarkin or Tonebender will all be slightly better than the original but will not totally overcome the fundamental issues with dirt pedals. No blend or extra transistor or whatever will. Just buy whatever you believe is best (believing something is better is as important as the pedal actually being better), they are all Muff based designs and will all give you oodles of dirt whilst screwing with your sound [/quote] Thanks you are very right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchbass Posted June 16, 2013 Author Share Posted June 16, 2013 i was just wondering apart from the mids on the grey stache is there a massive sound difference between the TFR and grey stache? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherairsoft Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 [quote name='danweb22' timestamp='1371398963' post='2113349'] COG Effects Tarkin Fuzz, nuff said! [/quote] This. It rocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazBeen Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 The TFR is lower gain than the Pickle Pie B and the Fuzzrocious was very similar in gain structure to the Pickle Pie if memory serves me correctly, perhaps a little heavier even. On another note, I have been in touch with Tom of COG just today and he was explaining what he had done with the pedal to "better" the Russian Muff it is based on. He has added a mid switch that sets the normally scooped sound to flat which will really help in a band setting, seeing as he has just started his company he is pricing his pedals very reasonably indeed. TG Flatline is his BC name, perhaps worth a PM in any case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazWills Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 [quote name='HazBeen' timestamp='1371401790' post='2113401'] Yet again the my Muff clone is better than yours discussion.... fun. Just buy whatever you believe is best (believing something is better is as important as the pedal actually being better), they are all Muff based designs and will all give you oodles of dirt whilst screwing with your sound [/quote] yup - agreed (to a point). The thing is, it depends how picky you want to get. To my ears, my TFR sounds better with my P bass than my grey stache, but using my jazz, the opposite it true. There are loads of muff-clones out there, but there are quite a range of different sounding muff pedals. I like muffs, and think the two I have sound different enough to warrant owning, and using both. COG sounds a good shout as it's a UK builder and cheaper than importing from the states!! Best bet is to have a look over at bassfuzz.com, and see if one of the many muffs he has demo'ed appeals to you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchbass Posted June 16, 2013 Author Share Posted June 16, 2013 thanks for the replies guys will look into them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchbass Posted June 16, 2013 Author Share Posted June 16, 2013 hmm that tarkin fuzz 'looks' nice but and the price is right but i would like to hear it anyone got any sound clips? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannybuoy Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 I've tried the Supercollider, TFR, Pickle Pie B, Musket, but the EHX Bass Big Muff works best for me. I had to mod it to fix the volume issue where it's too loud in dry mode, but the deluxe version fixes this by having a properly adjustable blend control. The TFR has great low end like the BBM, these two are the best of the bunch in this particular area. As a standalone fuzz, the TFR is the best I've heard. But for me a clean blend is essential to cut through the mix - not to bring back missing lows like some use a blend for, but to bring back some of dynamics lost by squashing the hell out of the signal. The TFR is available with a blend, but I swear that on the one I had it was wired out of phase, so that the volume dropped at a certain mid way point and it just sounded weird at every other point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk8 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Fredric effects also do a green Russian clone. Not compared directly to a TFR but from what I've read it seems to be a good clone of a green muff. Not as aggressive or harsh as a big muff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TG Flatline Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Cheers for the kind words chaps! I think what has been mentioned above about Muffs being destructive is very true. It is a fuzz, after all! Also true is that there is no "right" or "wrong" when choosing one. Personally, I wouldn't touch the EHX Deluxe because most of the extras are completely unnecessary in my eyes and just mean a larger enclosure, but that's just me. Clean blend/no clean blend, stock mids/adjustable mids have varying levels of value to different players. The Tarkin I have on my own pedalboard has a clean blend and a three-way adjustable mids switch, because that's how I like it myself, whereas others get a great sound with a Muff without the extras. I can't comment on a TFR as I haven't had the pleasure of playing one, but they look very nice and I appreciate the effort that has been gone to to recreate a particular sound, and by all accounts it does it very well. The EHX BBM did exactly what it said on the tin, and for the price you can't argue, just the niggle about the clean blended setting boosting your signal meaning it was difficult to implement to a setup without modification to the pedal. Again, I've not had the pleasure of playing a Grey Stache, but I can't imagine they sell as well as they do based on kid paint alone!! I'm trying to tread carefully here, lest I sound like an advert, so I'm only really passing comment on pedals by other builders - feel free to drop me a PM if you want to know more about mine and the variations/mods I do! As for sound clips for mine, I'm currently without a recording setup and am in the workshop most nights so have been unable to get bass clips recorded as yet. On the one hand I'm glad I've been too busy, but on the other I am very conscious that they are absent, so if anyone has the facilities and wants to review or record bass clips of a Tarkin give me a shout! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannybuoy Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 If you can get the Tarkin with a blend then I am interested! I'll send you a PM... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 [quote name='GazWills' timestamp='1371396030' post='2113313'] not tried the deluxe bass big muff, but I used to own the std bass big muff. It was a decent enough pedal, but the tall font russian, for me, is so much better sounding. doesn't lose any bass, if anything it adds bass. i'm not interested in the new EHX pedals, not liked what I have tried. i can't see the point of a DI out on a fuzz, and I think if you want options, some of the more boutique builders are a better option (fuzzrocious, wren and cuff, etc). i don't personally go for the obsession with clean blends that a lot of folks have with dirt pedals - the stache and the TFR do not lose any bass, and sound huge. (...) [/quote] This is what i would have written if Gaz hadn't jumped in front. I won't vote on the poll because i haven't tried the Deluxe Muff but i wouldn't sell my TFR to buy a EHX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchbass Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 [quote name='TG Flatline' timestamp='1371458745' post='2114024'] Cheers for the kind words chaps! I think what has been mentioned above about Muffs being destructive is very true. It is a fuzz, after all! Also true is that there is no "right" or "wrong" when choosing one. Personally, I wouldn't touch the EHX Deluxe because most of the extras are completely unnecessary in my eyes and just mean a larger enclosure, but that's just me. Clean blend/no clean blend, stock mids/adjustable mids have varying levels of value to different players. The Tarkin I have on my own pedalboard has a clean blend and a three-way adjustable mids switch, because that's how I like it myself, whereas others get a great sound with a Muff without the extras. I can't comment on a TFR as I haven't had the pleasure of playing one, but they look very nice and I appreciate the effort that has been gone to to recreate a particular sound, and by all accounts it does it very well. The EHX BBM did exactly what it said on the tin, and for the price you can't argue, just the niggle about the clean blended setting boosting your signal meaning it was difficult to implement to a setup without modification to the pedal. Again, I've not had the pleasure of playing a Grey Stache, but I can't imagine they sell as well as they do based on kid paint alone!! I'm trying to tread carefully here, lest I sound like an advert, so I'm only really passing comment on pedals by other builders - feel free to drop me a PM if you want to know more about mine and the variations/mods I do! As for sound clips for mine, I'm currently without a recording setup and am in the workshop most nights so have been unable to get bass clips recorded as yet. On the one hand I'm glad I've been too busy, but on the other I am very conscious that they are absent, so if anyone has the facilities and wants to review or record bass clips of a Tarkin give me a shout! [/quote] Thanks for the reply you really are tempting me now and the blend and the adjustable mids switch sounds amazing! hmm I will have to see if i have the funds at the moment if not i may contact you later in the year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazBeen Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I have just ordered one (very reasonable price for the custom work Tom needs to do), all the positive feedback has made me want to try one. Tom was kind enough to give me some feedback and insight on an idea I have been playing around with on my breadboard. I still am of the opinion that the Muff Deluxe is a really good low cost pedal that does what is says on the box. Not the best pedal out there, but certainly very good for the money and reading dannybuoy input I am not the only one who thinks that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchbass Posted June 18, 2013 Author Share Posted June 18, 2013 [quote name='TG Flatline' timestamp='1371458745' post='2114024'] Cheers for the kind words chaps! I think what has been mentioned above about Muffs being destructive is very true. It is a fuzz, after all! Also true is that there is no "right" or "wrong" when choosing one. Personally, I wouldn't touch the EHX Deluxe because most of the extras are completely unnecessary in my eyes and just mean a larger enclosure, but that's just me. Clean blend/no clean blend, stock mids/adjustable mids have varying levels of value to different players. The Tarkin I have on my own pedalboard has a clean blend and a three-way adjustable mids switch, because that's how I like it myself, whereas others get a great sound with a Muff without the extras. I can't comment on a TFR as I haven't had the pleasure of playing one, but they look very nice and I appreciate the effort that has been gone to to recreate a particular sound, and by all accounts it does it very well. The EHX BBM did exactly what it said on the tin, and for the price you can't argue, just the niggle about the clean blended setting boosting your signal meaning it was difficult to implement to a setup without modification to the pedal. Again, I've not had the pleasure of playing a Grey Stache, but I can't imagine they sell as well as they do based on kid paint alone!! I'm trying to tread carefully here, lest I sound like an advert, so I'm only really passing comment on pedals by other builders - feel free to drop me a PM if you want to know more about mine and the variations/mods I do! As for sound clips for mine, I'm currently without a recording setup and am in the workshop most nights so have been unable to get bass clips recorded as yet. On the one hand I'm glad I've been too busy, but on the other I am very conscious that they are absent, so if anyone has the facilities and wants to review or record bass clips of a Tarkin give me a shout! [/quote] hmm your pedals look so nice oh and btw i've recommended you to a friend (after looking at feedback from others) as he wants a russian muff clone and i told him to keep your pedals in mind and if he gets one i will try it out (probably end up ordering one myself) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TG Flatline Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 [quote name='Patchbass' timestamp='1371565902' post='2115591'] hmm your pedals look so nice oh and btw i've recommended you to a friend (after looking at feedback from others) as he wants a russian muff clone and i told him to keep your pedals in mind and if he gets one i will try it out (probably end up ordering one myself) [/quote] Thanks very much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchbass Posted June 18, 2013 Author Share Posted June 18, 2013 [quote name='TG Flatline' timestamp='1371567526' post='2115618'] Thanks very much [/quote] No problem anyway i think later in the year i'm going to order from you as i prefer supporting someone independent! I'll get in contact with you nearer the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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