xgsjx Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 I didn't expect everyone to like that song. People have different tastes & I don't take it personal. It was written as a tongue in cheek change to our usual rock stuff. We wasn't a Reggae or Ska band. There was a few folk didn't like last month's choice, but I personally thought it was really good. Reminded me of Steve Earle (& also Take it easy by Eagles). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 [quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1371648336' post='2116585'] I didn't expect everyone to like that song. People have different tastes & I don't take it personal. It was written as a tongue in cheek change to our usual rock stuff. We wasn't a Reggae or Ska band. There was a few folk didn't like last month's choice, but I personally thought it was really good. Reminded me of Steve Earle (& also Take it easy by Eagles). [/quote] I'll be honest, the track you supplied wouldn't be my own personal choice, but I do quite like it. At least it's not something like heavy-deathcore-hardcore-metalcore-corecore-rock, or whatever they are calling "heavy metal" these days It is tricky to get a decent sound from the drums though. The cymbal is overshadowing the snare so much. I think I'll go an try and land on the moon again and come back to this one... I'm nearly done though, I think... I hope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 All the tracks are the same. 7 stems & how I wanted to give the guy recording us a slap! We recorded 12 songs that day & got 4 tracks back. He said he couldn't get the others off the recorder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigman Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 (edited) don't get me wrong - I am going to do this. I have embarked on some major labour intensive eyewateringly tricky work with this. It should keep me occupied in the evenings for a while. Perhaps I will grow to like it? The drums are recorded at a very low level and when I passed them through Melodyne to chop them up, Melodyne initially saw NO transients......so I had to normalise the drums to 0db first......even then Melodyne was struggling.....perhaps I should run them through an Expander (opposite of a Compressor) to exagerrate the peaks? I think i am being over-ambitious by attempting to replace the drums in full so I can split each part of the kit, treat each part of the kit separately and expand to a stereo image ! I have NEVER tried this before so I am on a huge learning curve........infuriatinghly Melodyne & Sonar both halve the BPM in their calculations which is a PITA.... Edited June 19, 2013 by Twigman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted June 19, 2013 Author Share Posted June 19, 2013 [quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1371650569' post='2116618']don't get me wrong - I am going to do this...[/quote] Good on you I haven't started yet myself... I just gave the stems an initial listen and thought: "hmmm, this is going to be a challenge!" I'm probably going to try squeezing what I can out of the original drum track, rather than using replacement, but it's great that folks are approaching this in different ways. Anything goes. I don't own Melodyne myself but I've been working with MIDI lines produced by it as part of this month's composition competition (in collaboration with Mike / urb who has a copy). Very impressive and useful software... when it works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 [quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1371645607' post='2116524'] Let's try to keep it positive here, Twig' The purpose of these challenges is for us all to improve our mixing skills by practicing on a wide range of material: some of it professionally-recorded, some of it most definitely not. It might also mean working on material that you don't enjoy listening to yourself. Only you can be the judge of that, as you've already expressed. That's the joy of personal opinion. I chose this month's track for three reasons:[list] [*]Firstly because it throws up a bunch of challenges that we haven't encountered before. [*]Secondly because the stems were offered by a fellow Basschat member and I think it right that we should use 'local' material for these challenges when it's offered. [*]And thirdly because I thought it would make a suitable contrast to the previous session, where we got to work with lots of high quality stems (this being an exercise in working with far fewer and more challenging raw material). [/list] Rest assured I'm not 'telling you off' here! That's not my role and besides, I don't have the authority [i][cue Eric Cartman impression].[/i] I just wanted to pick up on your statement that "this track is horrid - what possessed you?" and how that might be interpreted by the person who went to the trouble of supplying the stems (in fact the [i]only[/i] person who offered up stems of their own this time round). I think Mike Senior set a fantastic example with his critiques of our last session, in terms of how to share constructive criticism. I'm guilty of jumping in with both feet myself when it comes to giving feedback on other people's work... so it's something I think we can all learn from. If the quality of the stems proves to be a recurring issue, then we might be better off using Mike's online library as a basis for these challenges. I'm personally keen to use material of all sorts from all sources, but it's obviously something for us to decide as a group next time round. Peace, etc. Paul [/quote] Indeed................... A mix engineer takes the money and runs, however, to take the money and run again, you need to deliver the first time around. Same as being a full time muso or even a prostitute/rent boy. Thumbs up to xjxjs for having the bottle to offer up something. Good luck all you folks. Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Hey Skol/Simon, since I have a lot of free time, and will likely be sending in my poor attempt at mixing this song in soon, why don't I put it into my signature that we are looking for stems for next month, and I will have a sift through whatever I get sent instead either of you needing to find the time for it? Should make things run a bit smoother into the next competition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurksalot Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1371555605' post='2115375'] Wish I had time to do this one now OK for all those Reaper users out there, you can replace drums using the built in gate and any midi firing drum tool (or even Reasampler and a drum wav you like):- [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKumkYIDar8[/media] If you did this once for each drum in the kit you can get as medieval as you like to filter the drums before the gate and run off each new drum kit item to get totally clean drums to add back to what is there or replace it altogether.... [/quote] Wow , that has helped a few pennies drop Simon , I love it . That has given me a few processing ideas , what they come out is another thing altogether , but while the snare and kick have now come alive the timing is awkward for the Toms, but will give it a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 (edited) [quote name='lurksalot' timestamp='1371673368' post='2116912'] but while the snare and kick have now come alive the timing is awkward for the Toms, but will give it a go. [/quote] Not sure what DAW you are using, but Audio quantise is always any option [lining up the transients etc] If not, highlight the events/clips [or cut either side] and nudge them around until you get a solid groove between all the kit. It's pretty much the same principle in any DAW. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5xeJFITB4[/media] Garry Edited June 19, 2013 by lowdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurksalot Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 aha , but I guess that mans I have to chop the entire drum track to seperate the toms , and that is the bit that sounds a bit daunting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 You can do thstautomaically in Reaper too, can't remember what they call the process in the manual now but it's pretty easy.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 I've managed to get some decent sounding drums, and even got some cool effects in the other tracks! I think I'll try and fine tune everything tomorrow. I've also found a tool that sweeps a sine wave from 20hz to 20khz, which is helpful, because I heard exactly where all the bad parts of the EQ were in my headphones. They also don't work above16,500hz. I know it's unlikely that I'll ever need to hear anything that high up, but don't advertise 20khz and not deliver it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 The sad truth is you probably can't hear over 16KHz I'm afraid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 (edited) [quote name='lurksalot' timestamp='1371680235' post='2117022'] aha , but I guess that mans I have to chop the entire drum track to seperate the toms , and that is the bit that sounds a bit daunting [/quote] You could use the 'Comping' features of the DAW [they all do it in one way or another] great for this kind of stuff - Just another way for getting a good performance together out of existing material, before getting into the nitty gritty of the sound clean up. This way you are keeping the original Drummers input into the band in some kind of way - Rather than just outing him completely. Although not always possible of course....... Reaper [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFz9kSmNZ8Q[/media] Studio One [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWe37lJ2DB4[/media] You get the idea etc..... Garry Edited June 20, 2013 by lowdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1371712740' post='2117155'] The sad truth is you probably can't hear over 16KHz I'm afraid [/quote] No, I can, I checked on another source. I can hear up to 18,500 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1371720052' post='2117238'] No, I can, I checked on another source. I can hear up to 18,500 [/quote] So it is either the headphones, or the soundcard, or the amp that is struggling. What soundcard are you using (hint: if its a built in card on you motherboard it quite possibly cant produce anything above 16KHz) Or there is something in your set up that is preventing this working.... Basically it isnt nearly a good enough or complete enough test at this point to suggest its the headphones that are at fault I think... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1371724177' post='2117319'] So it is either the headphones, or the soundcard, or the amp that is struggling. What soundcard are you using (hint: if its a built in card on you motherboard it quite possibly cant produce anything above 16KHz) Or there is something in your set up that is preventing this working.... Basically it isnt nearly a good enough or complete enough test at this point to suggest its the headphones that are at fault I think... [/quote] It is a good enough test, because everything was the same, except the second time, I used the built in speakers in my laptop. I don't have a headphone amp, and my soundcard is integrated I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted June 20, 2013 Author Share Posted June 20, 2013 (edited) [quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1371656591' post='2116697']A mix engineer takes the money and runs, however, to take the money and run again, you need to deliver the first time around. Same as being a full time muso or even a prostitute/rent boy.[/quote] Well said mate! [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1371661683' post='2116779']...why don't I put it into my signature that we are looking for stems for next month, and I will have a sift through whatever I get sent instead either of you needing to find the time for it?[/quote] Sounds like a good plan to me Milty! I'd personally be happy with that. Maybe ask people to supply MP3 copies of their tracks first, before going to the trouble of supplying individual stems. We could then host these MP3s online somewhere - e.g. set up a SoundCloud Group for the mixing challenge, akin to the existing [url="http://soundcloud.com/groups/basschat"]Basschat Group[/url] - where we can all post comments on which tracks we'd like to work with. In fact, if we set up a dedicated SoundCloud Group then people could simply add their tracks to it by 'sharing' them - i.e. no need for you or anyone else to bother uploading stuff. Anyone else got an opinion on this? [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1371720052' post='2117238']No, I can, I checked on another source. I can hear up to 18,500[/quote] Wow! That is some impressive hearing mate. My 39 year-old lug 'oles can barely manage to hear much above 14kHz with any real clarity. I have mild tinnitus at around 14kHz which makes it difficult for me to tell whether I'm hearing actual sounds at that frequency or just the background ringing in my ears! Which is why I tend to make bass-heavy music Edited June 20, 2013 by Skol303 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 [quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1371732211' post='2117463'] Sounds like a good plan to me Milty! I'd personally be happy with that. Maybe ask people to supply MP3 copies of their tracks first, before going to the trouble of supplying individual stems. We could then host these MP3s online somewhere - e.g. set up a SoundCloud Group for the mixing challenge, akin to the existing [url="http://soundcloud.com/groups/basschat"]Basschat Group[/url] - where we can all post comments on which tracks we'd like to work with. In fact, if we set up a dedicated SoundCloud Group then people could simply add their tracks to it by 'sharing' them - i.e. no need for you or anyone else to bother uploading stuff. Anyone else got an opinion on this? Wow! That is some impressive hearing mate. My 39 year-old lug 'oles can barely manage to hear much above 14kHz with any real clarity. I have mild tinnitus at around 14kHz which makes it difficult for me to tell whether I'm hearing actual sounds at that frequency or just the background ringing in my ears! Which is why I tend to make bass-heavy music [/quote] Great! I'll put it in my signature if everyone is happy with that? I have tinnitus too, but it's mostly in my right ear, being born practically deaf in my right ear, it seems to be more prone to hearing damage. I'm really pleased they were able to correct it though I'm trying to take better care of my hearing now i.e. Not going to clubs as much, not hanging around loud engines, hearing protection at band practices, all that kind of thing. I need to find some discrete form of hearing protection for going to gigs though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 My hearing goes up to around 15.5KHz, I'm 43 and when I was 21 it went up to 19KHz easily Age sucks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1371738943' post='2117582'] My hearing goes up to around 15.5KHz, I'm 43 and when I was 21 it went up to 19KHz easily Age sucks! [/quote] Haha! Yeah, maybe you think about retraining soon, or your mixes could end up sounding a bit like Douglas's My theory teacher told me that his wife was a big Van Morrison fan (f*** knows why), and apparently he ruined one of his latest albums, because he's so difficult to work with, and he's so old now that he turned all the higher frequencies up so it sounded right to him (and any other deaf bugger) but for people with normal or good hearing, it sounded all tinny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 (edited) No danger of that, listen to the last mix comp, mine was one of the only mixes that didnt sound like it was put together by someone who had forgotten their hearing aid Edited June 20, 2013 by 51m0n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1371743533' post='2117659'] No danger of that, listen to the last mix comp, mine was one of the only mixes that didnt sound like it was put together by someone who had forgotten their hearing aid [/quote] Of course! Including mine, and I have the benefit of still having nearly the full spectrum of hearing I'm curious now though, what sort of frequencies would a song normally operate in? I would have thought no higher than about 12k, but most of the sounds really being a lot lower than that, maybe I'm completely wrong though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurksalot Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 [quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1371718353' post='2117220'] You could use the 'Comping' features of the DAW [they all do it in one way or another] great for this kind of stuff - Just another way for getting a good performance together out of existing material, before getting into the nitty gritty of the sound clean up. This way you are keeping the original Drummers input into the band in some kind of way - Rather than just outing him completely. Although not always possible of course....... Reaper [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFz9kSmNZ8Q[/media] Studio One [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWe37lJ2DB4[/media] You get the idea etc..... Garry [/quote] Cheers Garry , I think I will have to put a few phrases together how I like them then do a copy paste thing , I was hoping to split the actual tom hits from the track, I can ID them , but chopping each one out just seems a total pain , as I will also have to keep them in the right time space . I will have a look for the auto chop that Si has eluded to , or overdub , but I didn't want to do that . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1371742394' post='2117634']...or your mixes could end up sounding a bit like Douglas's ...[/quote] My 'target market' is the ever-increasing baby-boom age group, suitably 'acoustically challenged'. They love my mixes. All the others are dull, lifeless and muddy. So there. Deaf, and proud of it. [size=5]I said "Deaf, and proud of it"...[/size] [size=6]No; "Deaf, and..."[/size] Oh sod it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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