MiltyG565 Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 [quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1372954862' post='2132132'] No. To put it another way, it raises the volume of the peaks to 0db (or whatever level you set it to) and raises the volume of everything else proportionally by the same out. So it's still the same waveform at the end of the process - it's just louder (or 'taller' in appearance). The process you're describing is what a compressor does - although a compressor works by reducing the difference in volume between the loudest and quietest signals by reducing ('compressing') the peaks. This is why most compressors have a 'make up gain' dial to compensate for the drop in overall volume when the peaks get squashed. PS: don't worry mate... It took me a while to get my head around all this too [/quote] so a normaliser is actually just a make-louder-iser? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigman Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1372958143' post='2132176'] so a normaliser is actually just a make-louder-iser? [/quote] or it could be a make-quieter-iser It depends where you start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted July 4, 2013 Author Share Posted July 4, 2013 (edited) [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1372958143' post='2132176']so a normaliser is actually just a make-louder-iser?[/quote] ^ Exactly (I'm pointing to Twig's comment above). Think of it as just a way of setting the peak level of a track. That might be increasing its volume to 0db, or it might be reducing its volume to -20db, or whatever you choose as being your 'norm'. Edited July 4, 2013 by Skol303 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 [quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1372960458' post='2132209'] ^ Exactly (I'm pointing to Twig's comment above). Think of it as just a way of setting the peak level of a track. That might be increasing its volume to 0db, or it might be reducing its volume to -20db, or whatever you choose as being your 'norm'. [/quote] Right, so why can't it be set to -14 then for the purposes of this comp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurksalot Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 each bit of software might apply itself in a different manner , see Si's post , the 14 on the k-14 is no more than a scale for our purposes, it effectively averages the whole track and delivers a result , if everyone uses this then each result should be similar so that each entry sounds similar in volume . the idea is not to peak over 0db using the K meter when using the scale of 'K14'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted July 4, 2013 Author Share Posted July 4, 2013 [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1372960803' post='2132213']Right, so why can't it be set to -14 then for the purposes of this comp?[/quote] Check out Si's post above (fourth one down from the top) which explains this much better than I could Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1372960803' post='2132213'] Right, so why can't it be set to -14 then for the purposes of this comp? [/quote] Take any piece of uncompressed (as in not dynamically processed) music - some raw vocal track for instance. Copy it to two seperate tracks in Reaper (or whatever) Compress one as follows:- Attack 0.3ms Release 25ms Ratio max Threshold so that you are getting a good 12dB of GR Make up gain so it is the same volume (but sounding very different) when the comp is off or on RMS value 1ms Thats very extreme limiting/compression btw! Render that track in place Normalise both the untouched track and the rendered tracks to the same level (-0.4dB lets say) Which sounds louder? Normalising cant take into account the average volume! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ras52 Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I found this neat little intro to K-metering: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnREPzUfUgU[/media] And this this standalone meter: [url="http://code.mzuther.de/kmeter/"]http://code.mzuther.de/kmeter/ [/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Bear in mind we arent going the whole hog and suggesting or demanding the use of fully calibrated K-metering at all, we just needed a meter that behaved as close as possible to the same on all systems, and as far as I know the K-meter is about the only free one that is guaranteed to behave the same in different implementations. Not to say that the k-metering with full calibration isnt something you should all try, if you can sort it out some time, I've played with it and its pretty cool, but I dont rely on it at all, and I dont think any of the mixes I've done on here were with calibrated monitoring at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urb Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 [quote name='ras52' timestamp='1373015156' post='2132721'] I found this neat little intro to K-metering: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnREPzUfUgU[/media] And this this standalone meter: [url="http://code.mzuther.de/kmeter/"]http://code.mzuther.de/kmeter/ [/url] [/quote] Oooo look at the pretty colours... Sorry - I love these vids - dude's voice is classic YT instructor though... This is recording geeks corner and I need to read more of this stuff - keep up the excellent work chaps... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myke Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Had a crack at this today. I have no idea what I'm going to do about the drums though.. May just leave as is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 [quote name='Myke' timestamp='1373036535' post='2133086'] Had a crack at this today. I have no idea what I'm going to do about the drums though.. May just leave as is. [/quote] You've still got time to redo the drums if you want! I converted mine to midi. I've spent a lot of time on the drums, and it's not even done yet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ras52 Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 [quote name='Myke' timestamp='1373036535' post='2133086'] Had a crack at this today. I have no idea what I'm going to do about the drums though.. May just leave as is. [/quote] Yes, I'm approaching this a simple mixing exercise rather than a full-blown editiing/reworking job. Are you mapping it to a click track? (Was it recorded to a click track?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myke Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1373037262' post='2133093'] You've still got time to redo the drums if you want! I converted mine to midi. I've spent a lot of time on the drums, and it's not even done yet! [/quote] Hmm.. I don't know, I might try that approach, not sure. [quote name='ras52' timestamp='1373039569' post='2133128'] Yes, I'm approaching this a simple mixing exercise rather than a full-blown editiing/reworking job. Are you mapping it to a click track? (Was it recorded to a click track?) [/quote] I haven't no. All I've done as of yet is added EQ, Compression, Reverb and done a simple level. I don't think it was. As there's a bit nearer the end where they go out of time and you hear the vocalist say so. May have to cut that bit out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 [quote name='Myke' timestamp='1373040272' post='2133138'] As there's a bit nearer the end where they go out of time and you hear the vocalist say so. May have to cut that bit out. [/quote] Yeah, it's just him that's out of time there I think. I deleted that segment... not a very good ad-lib! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myke Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1373041484' post='2133157'] Yeah, it's just him that's out of time there I think. I deleted that segment... not a very good ad-lib! [/quote] Yeah that's true. It's going to be difficult to cut it out to make it in time I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted July 5, 2013 Author Share Posted July 5, 2013 [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1373037262' post='2133093']You've still got time to redo the drums if you want! I converted mine to midi. I've spent a lot of time on the drums, and it's not even done yet![/quote] This is definitelty a track where that would be worth considering. I'm a pedant for using only the source material in these challanges ...and so far I've got a [i]reasonably[/i] good sound out of the drums by creating three separate tracks (one for snare, one for hats, one for 'room') and EQ'ing the living daylights out of them, along with the separate kick track. Some aggressive gating has helped too. I sadly don't have much time to spend on it this month - trying to snatch opportunities to work on it here and there - so my entry is going to be fairly rough around the edges. If I could free up more time I might consider re-writing the drums, but it's not going to happen, so I'm having to 'make do and mend'. Still, so far so good... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 [quote name='Myke' timestamp='1373042145' post='2133168'] Yeah that's true. It's going to be difficult to cut it out to make it in time I think. [/quote] Just cut out the bit where he says "That's very out of time". Everything else is fine. He redoes it again right after that anyway, so just delete the out of time part. [quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1373043121' post='2133185'] This is definitelty a track where that would be worth considering. I'm a pedant for using only the source material in these challanges ...and so far I've got a [i]reasonably[/i] good sound out of the drums by creating three separate tracks (one for snare, one for hats, one for 'room') and EQ'ing the living daylights out of them, along with the separate kick track. Some aggressive gating has helped too. I sadly don't have much time to spend on it this month - trying to snatch opportunities to work on it here and there - so my entry is going to be fairly rough around the edges. If I could free up more time I might consider re-writing the drums, but it's not going to happen, so I'm having to 'make do and mend'. Still, so far so good... [/quote] I would love to have used the original drum track, but unfortunately I don't know my way around a DAW like you do, and I just couldn't get a decent sound, so I converted it to midi. The midi drums, well, they don't sound the best, but at least I can turn down that bloody annoying ride cymbal now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Still not loaded the stems for this, I don't think I'll manage sorry, when's the deadline? This is what I've been busy with: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted July 9, 2013 Author Share Posted July 9, 2013 ^ Looking good there Tom! The deadline for entries is this coming Monday 15th July (anytime that day/night). I'll be launching the anonymous voting on the evening of Wednesday 17th. Voting will then run for two weeks and finish on the 31st. So... if you haven't yet submitted your mix, then get busy with it! [i](if it's any consolation I've barely started mine. Yeah, I know, it's criminal ).[/i] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Cool, I'll do my best to do a quick mix by Sunday and get it to you Monday morning. I'm opening my studio Friday night so hopefully I'll be too busy :-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigman Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 [quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1373360547' post='2136569'] [i] I've barely started mine. [/i] [/quote]Likewise - spent one evening on it and got sidetracked by the weather, the kids, the gardening, work, motorcycle maintenance, our own album recording, in fact almost anything else....must find some time for this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I think I'm pretty close to finishing mine, although that seems like one of those things you should never say Once I finish the drums, and get the levels set properly, I think that will be it done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted July 9, 2013 Author Share Posted July 9, 2013 [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1373364485' post='2136630']I think I'm pretty close to finishing mine, although that seems like one of those things you should never say[/quote] ... "mixes are never finished, only abandoned" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 [quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1373373779' post='2136799'] ... "mixes are never finished, only abandoned" [/quote] Ah ha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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