Using Your Ear!

[philwood]

[quote name='Hector' timestamp='1371753170' post='2117799']
On the topic of playing by ear: I haven't had time to transcribe much in the last fortnight. I had a gig on Tuesday where I was really struggling to hear what I wanted to play clearly. Today, I had a gig where my soloing and walking lines came directly out of my head and through the bass with little effort and no 'conscious' thinking - almost as if playing by pure instinct or as if singing. This is the first time that has happened, and the feeling was indescribably wonderful. I expect I'll be chasing that for years to come.

What made the difference? Two hour transcribing on Wednesday evening. Really opens up the ears.....
[/quote]

Fantastic! Thats exactly it!

[xilddx]

[quote name='Hector' timestamp='1371753170' post='2117799']
On the topic of playing by ear: I haven't had time to transcribe much in the last fortnight. I had a gig on Tuesday where I was really struggling to hear what I wanted to play clearly. Today, I had a gig where my soloing and walking lines came directly out of my head and through the bass with little effort and no 'conscious' thinking - almost as if playing by pure instinct or as if singing. This is the first time that has happened, and the feeling was indescribably wonderful. I expect I'll be chasing that for years to come.

What made the difference? Two hour transcribing on Wednesday evening. Really opens up the ears.....
[/quote]

Oh I love that feeling! I've started transcribing and learning a live version of Zoot Allures by Zappa with Scott Thunes on bass, that's just learning it by ear, not notating it or anything, and already I have floods of ideas and inspiration. I have a gig tomorrow and I can't wait

[Hector]

I kid you guys not, it was pretty transcendent. I was a couple of licks away from seeing my spirit animal.

[fatback]

[quote name='Hector' timestamp='1371815794' post='2118427']
I kid you guys not, it was pretty transcendent. I was a couple of licks away from seeing my spirit animal.
[/quote]

Wonderful. Guess that's what people mean when they say they want their playing to be as natural as singing; the instrument just disappears.

On the subject of ears, I think anyone who's learned a monophonic instrument and never played piano or whatever is at a disadvantage. Hearing the note in the chord matters so much, as distinct from just hearing intervals, which is what we're inclined to do when we're practicing.

I really need to get a keyboard.

Edited June 25, 2013 by fatback

[benthos]

There's a great Dave Marks vid on YouTube this subject - http://youtu.be/WMQFcKo6PUs

Edited July 15, 2013 by benthos

[hollywoodrox]

carol kaye advocates saying the names of the root of arpeggios while you practise, her tutorials seem to be focused on training the ear at the same time as learning arpeggios and lines, I think she is a great educator

[funkle]

[quote name='hollywoodrox' timestamp='1375131246' post='2157142']
carol kaye advocates saying the names of the root of arpeggios while you practise, her tutorials seem to be focused on training the ear at the same time as learning arpeggios and lines, I think she is a great educator
[/quote]

+1. I took lessons with her for a summer back in the 90's. She was tough but fair. I have her various books around the place and learned to read a fair bit from them.

[funkle]

+1 to most of this thread too and most definitely to the OP. I've spent most of the last 6 months working on technical stuff given to me by Joe Hubbard, but stopped transcribing quite so much (apart form having to transcribe a bunch of tunes back in February for a dep gig with a function band). I feel like I've left a gap in my practice routine...

So, I've been working the last fornight or so just on one tune - Snarky Puppy's 'Skate U'. Iv'e found it great to try and nail absolutely everything *exactly* as Michael League plays it. I can't say it's all nailed yet, but the first half of the song and most of the bass solo is down.

One mistake I think I have made in the past when 'transcribing' is to work something out, write the dots out, then learn how to play it on bass - as opposed to work it out, play it until it's right, THEN write out the dots. I've learned a lot more lately through the latter than the former. I picked up this particular tip from a sax player, Bob Reynolds, who I respect and I think sounds phenomenal. His rationale is all the greats learned by ear first of all, though of course I do note they were all pretty well muscially trained too.

The main problem I have in dealing with good advice is following it. I seem to have to make the mistakes first and then work out that what I've been previously told is in fact the right thing to do.

Edited August 29, 2013 by funkle

[Ghosts Over Japan]

[quote name='Hector' timestamp='1371753170' post='2117799']
On the topic of playing by ear: I haven't had time to transcribe much in the last fortnight. I had a gig on Tuesday where I was really struggling to hear what I wanted to play clearly. Today, I had a gig where my soloing and walking lines came directly out of my head and through the bass with little effort and no 'conscious' thinking - almost as if playing by pure instinct or as if singing. This is the first time that has happened, and the feeling was indescribably wonderful. I expect I'll be chasing that for years to come.

What made the difference? Two hour transcribing on Wednesday evening. Really opens up the ears.....
[/quote]

Found this quite inspirational to be honest, I've been working on my transcribing a lot more for the last couple of weeks and it's come on quite away, some of the more basic pop songs I can usually figure out the main riffs in one or two attempts (which is such a great feeling, knowing that you're actually progressing) but after reading this I am definitely going to put aside a few hours a week JUST for transcribing.
Cheers.
Cai

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='funkle' timestamp='1377724141' post='2191055']
His rationale is all the greats learned by ear first of all,
[/quote]

The problem with that statement is that it assumes a particular casualty (i.e. that the "greats" became such primarily because they learned by ear, rather than that they learned by ear because its the easiest method for people of in top .01% of the latent ability range).

Edited September 1, 2013 by bassman7755

[funkle]

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1378051794' post='2195143']


The problem with that statement is that it assumes a particular casualty (i.e. that the "greats" became such primarily because they learned by ear, rather than that they learned by ear because its the easiest method for people of in top .01% of the latent ability range).
[/quote]

Well, I couldn't say definitely one way or the other, but when great players say to get on with the business of using our ears, I'm taking that advice (though a lot later than I should have). And I keep hearing the same advice from many great players - Scott Devine, Chris Tarry, Jeff Berlin, Janek Gwizdala and Bob Reynolds to name a few.

There is a lot of research (detailed in popular books like Outliers, The Talent Code, etc) which basically says that 'talent' is directly related to focused and applied hard work. 4,000 hours for professionals, 8-10,000 hours for 'masters'. I am happy to go with evidence that says working harder will lead to improvement, and doesn't ascribe 'talent' to inborn abilities. The rule applied to e.g. Mozart too.

[ML94]

You know that 2 minute thing actually makes sense! When I started out I used to slap the bass all the time :| As I started digging into jazz, theory and ear training I've recently noticed that my 250BPM triplets have taken the toll for it . Joking aside, I think a well rounded musician is what gets hired and getting everything to an equal level is what I'm going to be thinking when I practice now. Cheers for the video !

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='funkle' timestamp='1378059875' post='2195322']
Well, I couldn't say definitely one way or the other, but when great players say to get on with the business of using our ears, I'm taking that advice
[/quote]

Theres a difference between "Learning purely by ear first" and a balanced program of study which includes ear training (of whatever form).

[MB1]

MB1.
...Whose Earl?

[Fat Rich]

Learning the sounds of the intervals and the shape of them on the fingerboard is worthwhile and doesn't take long, but for me connecting the sound with the shape is an extra step which is a problem for my slow brain.

So pretty much every day I'd pick up a bass and play the melody to some tune in my head. I didn't worry what key it's supposed to be in, I didn't listen to it first so it might not even have been 100% accurate or up to tempo. I'd just play it through a couple of times till it was about right and then forget it again.

I'd start off with a simple tune, Baa Baa Black Sheep or Happy Birthday or something, early on I was having to shift about the fingerboard because I didn't know where to expect to find the next note. But within a few days I could play pretty much in one position on the neck because my fingers were starting to find the notes without my brain seeming to think about them. Then I'd move onto more complex melodies, maybe 70s TV theme tunes (Fawlty Towers, Minder, The Sweeney etc) that really didn't fall under the fingers as they're very different from most basslines we learn.

It didn't take long before I could pick out most melodies pretty much correctly first time through, and the good news is most basslines in popular music are simpler than most melodies you've got rattling about in your memory.

It didn't seem particularly relevant to bass playing but ultimately I was playing what I was hearing in my head and that's a thing worth practicing, you'd be surprised how quickly it comes together.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Fat Rich