Mornats Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Hello all, I'm currently playing open mic nights with my band and have a problem every so often where some of my bass notes will boom out and others are normal volume. Messing around at home and adjusting pickup heights etc. has helped when playing at home but not when playing live. I think the problem stems from the various room layouts and perhaps because I'm going through their PA systems (which would rule out using an Auralex Gramma pad). So I was thinking of grabbing a compressor pedal to see if that would help. Any thoughts or am I wasting my time? A Behringer DC9 was what I was thinking of, mainly because it's under £30 new and I'm skint at the moment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 If the cause is the room layout, and hitting sympathetic frequencies, then I can't see that a compressor would do much to help. It will even up the input to your amp, but it can't do a damned thing about what happens to the sound after it comes out of your cab ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FretNoMore Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 (edited) No, a compressor is not the solution here, what you need is a parametric equalizer where you can zero in on the offending frequency range and lower the volume in a narrow band to cut out the boominess. Edited June 24, 2013 by FretNoMore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 (edited) As has been said, a compressor won't help much with your specific problem... ...but nevertheless the DC9 is really quite a usable compressor - for the price. Edited June 24, 2013 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 You need a fully parametric eq, a graphic won't get tight enough and will be noticeable in compraison. Or sort out the acoustics.... A compressor can do many things, but not that I'm afraid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedmanzie Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 i've got this problem in my studio (booming at certain freqs). trouble with trying to eq out exact freqs on the amp is that the peaks change depending on where you are in the room. improving the room acoustics is the solution, but not much you can do on open-mic night other than persuade 100 people to turn up (!) so the bodies soak up the sound better i find generally generally turning down the very low bass on my amp helps, even though the honkiness is further up the frequency range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 (edited) Some simple DIY and free software is all you need to measure and properly treat any room You won't get the same results as a ground up live room build but you can still get immense improvements... You can't eq out bad acoustics it's a myth..... Edited June 25, 2013 by 51m0n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 If you are getting "boom" on stage then the Gramma would be the first step, then a better cab, like a Bergantino. If the "boom" is in the room then there's very little [i]you[/i] can do, it's an issue with the PA and whoever is controlling FOH sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyquipment Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Yeah as others said. Eq is solution here. The compressor will just make boomyness more apparent ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 The only thing it might do is if the boom is due to heavy handed playing, even the sound out between strings. I`m a bit guilty of this, and a compressor evens out my playing a bit. I suppose I`m more using it like a limiter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FretNoMore Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 On the other hand a compressor may even hurt in combination with sloppy technique, amplifying the noise from loose strings etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornats Posted June 25, 2013 Author Share Posted June 25, 2013 Thanks for the replies everyone! So a compressor won't help with the boominess (but I'd like to try one to help even out the sounds between strings and get some consistency in playing 8th notes). I imagine setting up an EQ to cut some of it would take a bit of setup which isn't always available at open mic nights I may just switch to my active Tanglewater (I usually take the passive one) and try the on-board EQ for now to see if it helps. [size=4][quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1372157005' post='2122213'][/size] Some simple DIY and free software is all you need to measure and properly treat any room [size=4][/quote][/size] Oooh, which software is this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 (edited) [url="http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/"]Room Eq Wizard[/url] is great free software for plotting waterfall graphs etc etc... Edited June 25, 2013 by 51m0n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Incidentally, and FWIW, the Half Moon in Putney has a really bad resonant frequency around the low D on a 4-string bass. That's a serious venue, played at by plenty of big bands, but every time a bass player hits a D or a C# it feels like a brown note. My point is, sometimes there is NO fix that will work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1372173352' post='2122450'] Incidentally, and FWIW, the Half Moon in Putney has a really bad resonant frequency around the low D on a 4-string bass. That's a serious venue, played at by plenty of big bands, but every time a bass player hits a D or a C# it feels like a brown note. My point is, sometimes there is NO fix that will work. [/quote] Well a serious notch filter would help, you may need several though, and the chances are you would wreck your tone trying eq as the solution, ringing in a room is not something you can fix really with eq, since it is a time domain phenomena rather than a frequency domain phenomena. You say its a serious venue? How big (roughly) is it? What work have they done on the acoustics in the room? The larger the room then (very generally) easier it is to get the room nodes to be less of an issue. Also the more space you can afford to give up to acoustic treatment. Most simple DIY solutions to bass notes ringing are fairly cheap but very large and target quite wide frequency bands (superchunk corner bass traps for instance). Targetting specific frequencies with helmholtz resonators and so on, but these require more skill to create as a rule, and more time, they are however, often smaller than big absorption based bass traps. If this venue is serious about sound then it ought to have serious about sound acoustic improvements, clouds hung from the ceiling, basstraps in the soffits and corners, absorption on the walls, and even some diffusers wouldnt go amiss. It wouldnt cost tehm more than a couple of grand to do a seriously great job on the room, the diffference would be massive too! Heck where I rehearse now every single rehearsal room has broadband absorption on the walls and clouds, they are clearly DIY, but the rooms sound fabulous as a result (compared to many places I used to use back in the day), its a pleasure to rehearse there, [url="http://www.brightonelectric.co.uk/rehearsal-BE1.html"]have a look[/url]. [url="https://soundcloud.com/mistersuperjuice/what-it-is-and-what-it-aint"]Here is an example of a bit of a jam[/url] whilst the horns were working out some parts at the last rehearsal, Zoom H4n as drum overheads and two Line Audio CM3s in the room to pick up bass, guitar, and horns - not bad for no close micing at all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1372175009' post='2122481'] You say its a serious venue? How big (roughly) is it? [/quote] http://www.halfmoon.co.uk/ I've not played there myself (chance would be a fine thing) but I've been to plenty of gigs there, and recent Basschatters who have played there include Clarky with ATQR and Low End Bee with The Jetsonics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FretNoMore Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 (edited) Sure some rooms and stages are very difficult, but I have a feeling a lot of places don't even try, or don't have the right type of EQ equipment in the PA. Most use graphic EQs with not enough frequency bands, I seldom see parametric EQs, and I bet not many have actually measured the room and dialed in a suitable EQ curve. And, the sound probably needs some fixing both in the FOH sound as well as the amp on stage if the room is tricky. It's a pain to play on a really boomy stage, you can't hear what you or the band play and I can sometimes become almost physically ill from the bass sound. On the other hand, if you have really great sound it can be an absolute joy to play, so I think it's very worthwhile knowing how to at least minimize this pain. Most of the time it's really not too difficult to get rid of the worst by using a parametric equalizer or notch filter. I have an Empress ParaEq last in my effects chain for this purpose, it takes a few minutes when setting up before sound check to hunt down the worst frequency and reduce the gain at that point. This way it takes less tweaking in the PA to get a good FOH sound as well. It's sometimes a balancing act to not cut out too much and lose too much bottom end, but if I need to sound a bit thin to not have resonances from the stage the sound guy can dial back bottom end in the FOH mix instead. Edited June 25, 2013 by FretNoMore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1372178199' post='2122544'] [url="http://www.halfmoon.co.uk/"]http://www.halfmoon.co.uk/[/url] I've not played there myself (chance would be a fine thing) but I've been to plenty of gigs there, and recent Basschatters who have played there include Clarky with ATQR and Low End Bee with The Jetsonics. [/quote] Cant really tell from the photos because there are drapes everywhere, but I would be surprised if there were any attempt to improve the acoustics. Lowest D on a (4 string) bass is about 73Hz, sound travels at about 343m/s, so the wavelength of that lowest d is 343/73 = 4.6m (or close enough) so if any of that room's dimensions is 4.6m or a multiple of 4.6 meters then you are going to get a nice fat node somewhere in the room around that frequency, if two dimensions divide by 4.6m then its going to get really obvious. Of course its not that simple, rooms aren't simple shapes, and the additive and subtractive quality of the interference from [i]all[/i] the boundaries in 3 dimensions is what we experience. Simply put if you find a place in a room with a big fat peak in it, move, you will wander out of that node and move into another area where the problem isnt evident, in fact you may find that in that space the note disappears altogether! Hence the need to sort out the acoustics to get the nodes controlled properly, EQ cant work everywhere in the room.... Of course it can also be the harmonics of the note, and an octave higher D gives a wavelength of around 2.3m, hows that for near the height of the room??? Edited June 25, 2013 by 51m0n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Or you could adjust your set so you never have to play 'D'. What? It's a perfectly sensible suggestion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepbass5 Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 fantastic fantastic tastic idea idea ea ea a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1372157205' post='2122216'] If you are getting "boom" on stage then the Gramma would be the first step, then a better cab, like a Bergantino.[/quote] The first step is to try moving your speakers. And buying 'a better cab like a Bergantino' is never the solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornats Posted June 25, 2013 Author Share Posted June 25, 2013 At pretty much all of the open mic nights we're doing I'm going straight into the PA which rules out the Gramma pad or getting another cab. Otherwise I'd definitely invest in the Gramma, they've got a really good rep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 (edited) [quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1372190513' post='2122742'] The first step is to try moving your speakers. And buying 'a better cab like a Bergantino' is never the solution. [/quote] Excellent point, bass below about 300Hz is omni directional, signal bouncing off the back wall interferes with direct signal from the cab causing all manner of comb filtering Stay as close as you can to the wall or over eight feet away (IIRC) to minimise their effect in bass sensitive areas Then get a Bergantino cab Edited June 25, 2013 by 51m0n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 (edited) If you are going through the PA you probably aren't as boomy as you think. If you are behind the speakers you will only hear the lower frequencies as the higher ones are directional and only go forwards from the PA, the audience are probably hearing much less boom. I only tried bass this way once at an open mic and i had no idea what I was playing until I stood in front of the PA speakers. Now I take a little kickback combo with me and control my own tone. If you have control of your sound then move your speakers away from reflecting surfaces like rear and side walls and even think of lifting them off the floor, each reflecting surface gives you an extra 3dB of deep bass so having your amp/speaker in a corner gives 9dB bass lift, pretty much the same as full bass boost. Also think of using a little more bridge pickup and a little less neck pup. Edited June 25, 2013 by Phil Starr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ossie Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 HI, Yes it will. I allways use a compressor, gives me much more control over dynamics. Selling an EBS Multicomp on e-bay at the mo, take a look., Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.