you cant beat fender, They got it right.....

[stingrayPete1977]

My squier jazz plays and sounds better than any fender I have tried but then it has lots of mods bringing it more in line with some kind of super jazz, like others have said the best jazzes I have tried were not fender not were the best p basses

Edited June 26, 2013 by stingrayPete1977

[MattM]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1372244505' post='2123225']
Yeah, Leo got it right. The P is great, the J is great.

Then the Stingray came along and made it even better.
[/quote]

Then of course Ned Steinberger then rocked everyone's world afterwards....

[iconic]

A Fender P or J (or clone!) is all I need..took me a while to realise though!

[Highfox]

They certainly did get it right.
Imitation is the sincerest form of [i]flattery[/i]
Recorded or live they just sound the bizz. You can keep all your tapping and 8 string stuff..

[greyparrot]

wow i did not expect so many to agree!! ha-ha! Anyway why i thought post the tread was because i was recently in a shop bass direct, a fantastic shop, i went there to look at a mayones or whatever its called on sale at £1300.... but i also half kept looking at the fender usa p bass v deluxe at a great price (not made anymore with the Bill Lawrence P/u near the bridge) .... i seen it a few times on the site over 2 months and Wonder why on earth is that beut still for sale?? its says mint had a good price and was a 5 string ....perfect for me... so i made the trip from Essex, and looked at all the stunning eye candy (but not for long) and picked up the mayonees ... and then put the thing down again after about 2mins playing..it was a heavy bugger and looked like a gem of exotic-ness .. rather too much bordering on tacky even... then went to look at the fender.... that was that... this baby is mine had it a month now great bass... im guessing it did not get that much of a look in at the shop, but to me it was the best thing in there regardless of price tag.., after a jazz 1974 i had a while back, this is probably the best playing bass iv had..i did go to get one many years ago, but it was like £1500 then so i passed on it ....The guy in the shop Mark i think his name is said about my fender its a great bass but the pre amp is naff..and to swap it out... i thought ...what is he talking about? this bass sounds as sweet as a nut! why on earth would i wanna stick in a £300 pre amp .. its not he same fender anymore! with a slap sound out of this world, and punchy finger style why change it? ...ok i know its not the passive fender but hey i can say the same about them too, fantastic.. Reading through the posts on this tread, many have all been there high end basses, trying to squeeze out the sound imbedded in our head from years back... then as said above changing out p/u s n pre amps... (which i never did, i just got rid) only to end up selling the f***er and losing tons of dosh and swapping it back to a 2/3 knob passive bass.... haha.. It is merely my thoughts and experience over many years of playing different beasts... the 70-80s jap basses though like the arias and Yamaha they are very cool too.... they are superb. Do bear in mind its only my personal opinion after 30 years with as many and more, much more even basses i have owned in this time..

Edited June 26, 2013 by greyparrot

[ambient]

[quote name='greyparrot' timestamp='1372252428' post='2123380']
wow i did not expect so many to agree!! ha-ha! Anyway why i thought post the tread was because i was recently in a shop bass direct, a fantastic shop, i went there to look at a mayones or whatever its called on sale at £1300.... but i also half kept looking at the fender usa p bass v deluxe at a great price (not made anymore with the Bill Lawrence P/u near the bridge) .... i seen it a few times on the site over 2 months and Wonder why on earth is that beut still for sale?? its says mint had a good price and was a 5 string ....perfect for me... so i made the trip from Essex, and looked at all the stunning eye candy (but not for long) and picked up the mayonees ... and then put the thing down again after about 2mins playing..it was a heavy bugger and looked like a gem of exotic-ness .. rather too much bordering on tacky even... then went to look at the fender.... that was that... this baby is mine had it a month now great bass... im guessing it did not get that much of a look in at the shop, but to me it was the best thing in there regardless of price tag.., after a jazz 1974 i had a while back, this is probably the best playing bass iv had..i did go to get one many years ago, but it was like £1500 then so i passed on it ....The guy in the shop Mark i think his name is said about my fender its a great bass but the pre amp is naff..and to swap it out... i thought ...what is he talking about? this bass sounds as sweet as a nut! why on earth would i wanna stick in a £300 pre amp .. its not he same fender anymore! with a slap sound out of this world, and punchy finger style why change it? ...ok i know its not the passive fender but hey i can say the same about them too, fantastic.. Reading through the posts on this tread, many have all been there high end basses, trying to squeeze out the sound imbedded in our head from years back... then as said above changing out p/u s n pre amps... (which i never did, i just got rid) only to end up selling the f***er and losing tons of dosh and swapping it back to a 2/3 knob passive bass.... haha.. It is merely my thoughts and experience over many years of playing different beasts... the 70-80s jap basses though like the arias and Yamaha they are very cool too.... they are superb. Do bear in mind its only my personal opinion after 30 years with as many and more, much more even basses i have owned in this time..
[/quote]

What the guy in the shop is talking about when he says to swap the preamp, is to spend more money with him for something you don't need, and is is way overpriced anyway .

[greyparrot]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1372252891' post='2123390']
What the guy in the shop is talking about when he says to swap the preamp, is to spend more money with him for something you don't need, and is is way overpriced anyway .
[/quote]

yeah i did think that as well...

[Grand Wazoo]

I believe Fender have gone through various periods of ups and downs, generally speaking, their qc has been all over the place from the late 70's and failed to impress during the 80's-90's however, in the year 2000 something must have imploded in their head offices, their Big Cheeses must have hired new dedicated staff that allowed the "concept" back to the drawing board, and caused them to shake up the entire company ethic from the foundation up.

I guess they must have reached a point where they were faced with the question "Do we go ahead and keep on manufacturing the same below average crap that no one will buy and lose business to the copycat market or are we going to come up with a product that will be both in line with the former glory years and at the same time be something that the punters will find to be of excellent quality sound and perfect for gigging.

[b]The American Standard series meant exactly that.[/b]

I can't fault them, and I don't just buy a bass because of the name on the headstock, but being of a mature age and having known what a P bass was like all that time ago, when I first tried an AM Standard P I knew I was holding a fantastic piece of kit that I would buy without hesitation, now I have 2 of them a P and a J and I have the Fender gas fully under control until something better comes along...

[Hutton]

[quote name='Grand Wazoo' timestamp='1372253669' post='2123401']
I believe Fender have gone through various periods of ups and downs, generally speaking, their qc has been all over the place from the late 70's and failed to impress during the 80's-90's however, in the year 2000 something must have imploded in their head offices, their Big Cheeses must have hired new dedicated staff that allowed the "concept" back to the drawing board, and caused them to shake up the entire company ethic from the foundation up.

I guess they must have reached a point where they were faced with the question "Do we go ahead and keep on manufacturing the same below average crap that no one will buy and lose business to the copycat market or are we going to come up with a product that will be both in line with the former glory years and at the same time be something that the punters will find to be of excellent quality sound and perfect for gigging.

[b]The American Standard series meant exactly that.[/b]

I can't fault them, and I don't just buy a bass because of the name on the headstock, but being of a mature age and having known what a P bass was like all that time ago, when I first tried an AM Standard P I knew I was holding a fantastic piece of kit that I would buy without hesitation, now I have 2 of them a P and a J and I have the Fender gas fully under control until something better comes along...
[/quote]

Nice to see the same old dreary quality control argument rearing its head again. My 83 & 84 p basses ooze quality. I'll give you that some stuff in the late 70s was poor but it's just ridiculous to claim that 20 years of Fenders were poor. Do you honestly think that professional players would have used Fenders throughout these decades if they had been of questionable quality? There has already been criticism of the OP making generalisations but it works both ways.

[Dad3353]

[quote]you cant beat fender, They got it right.....[/quote]

...but Hofner did a good job on the Verithin, too...

[Grand Wazoo]

[quote name='Hutton' timestamp='1372254406' post='2123411']
Nice to see the same old dreary quality control argument rearing its head again. My 83 & 84 p basses ooze quality. I'll give you that some stuff in the late 70s was poor but it's just ridiculous to claim that 20 years of Fenders were poor. Do you honestly think that professional players would have used Fenders throughout these decades if they had been of questionable quality? There has already been criticism of the OP making generalisations but it works both ways.
[/quote]

I agree with you actually, my post was badly written. When I meant periods of ups and down, I didn't express myself properly infact I should have said that in that period of time their quality has been up and down and not that it was ALL bad, but the Fender Special series (the active ones in lake placid blue and candy apple red, remember them?) that came out in 1983 I remember that they were pretty bad.

[stingrayPete1977]

So we are all praising the standard fender jazz bass for it's simple Workman like qualities over a super jazz clone yet the bass in question is active and had none standard pickups?............

Edited June 26, 2013 by stingrayPete1977

[Grand Wazoo]

By the way, I've always maintained that the Crafted In Japan and Made in Japan series are superb, I have recently tried an Aerodyne P with a Jazz pickup in the bridge and liked it a lot.

[Hutton]

[quote name='Grand Wazoo' timestamp='1372255189' post='2123427']
I agree with you actually, my post was badly written. When I meant periods of ups and down, I didn't express myself properly infact I should have said that in that period of time their quality has been up and down and not that it was ALL bad, but the Fender Special series (the active ones in lake placid blue and candy apple red, remember them?) that came out in 1983 I remember that they were pretty bad.
[/quote]

Fair enough my friend!

[BetaFunk]

This one is going to run and run and when it's finally on it's last legs we can always rely on someone mentioning either Jaco or The Beatles and hey presto! we'll be off and running again!

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1372247692' post='2123292']
You owned a Fender that was more expensive than an Alleva Coppolo? Was it made of gold...?
[/quote]

I still own two Fenders that were each more expensive than an Alleva Coppolo and a Mike Lull added together.

Far more attractive investment than a bloody pension fund.

One was made in 1965:
[URL=http://s1128.photobucket.com/user/h4ppyjack/media/Basses%20CURRENT/Fender%20Precision%201966%20CURRENT/DSCF4276.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m496/h4ppyjack/Basses%20CURRENT/Fender%20Precision%201966%20CURRENT/DSCF4276.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

And one was made in 1957:
[URL=http://s1128.photobucket.com/user/h4ppyjack/media/Basses%20CURRENT/Fender%20Precision%201957%20CURRENT/CIMG1228.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m496/h4ppyjack/Basses%20CURRENT/Fender%20Precision%201957%20CURRENT/CIMG1228.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1372256271' post='2123444']
I still own two Fenders that were each more expensive than an Alleva Coppolo and a Mike Lull added together.

Far more attractive investment than a bloody pension fund.

One was made in 1965:


And one was made in 1957:

[/quote]

Ah but... to be fair, going back to your original comment - price-wise, you're not comparing like with like.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Grand Wazoo' timestamp='1372255189' post='2123427']
the Fender Special series (the active ones in lake placid blue and candy apple red, remember them?) that came out in 1983 I remember that they were pretty bad.
[/quote]

Actually, weight aside they were probably on a par with custom-shop quality.

Fender were at the top of their game around then, with a small workforce turning out a lesser amount of instruments.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1372256420' post='2123447']
Ah but... to be fair, going back to your original comment - price-wise, you're not comparing like with like.
[/quote]

Well if we're being fair, I never said I was ... in fact, that was pretty much my point.

[Clarky]

They're certainly good for metal

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1372256510' post='2123452']
Well if we're being fair, I never said I was ... in fact, that was pretty much my point.


[/quote]

'tis a fair point.

[Gust0o]

I think I can balance this debate, a little - much as Fender, the business, might have detractors, it'd be fairer to say [i]you can't beat Leo Fender[/i].

Fender, Musicman, G&L - that's a much broader church who've benefited from this ministry

[Hutton]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1372256506' post='2123451']
Fender were at the top of their game around then, with a small workforce turning out a lesser amount of instruments.
[/quote]

Yes, yes, and yes again.

[Conan]

[quote name='greyparrot' timestamp='1372252428' post='2123380']
wow i did not expect so many to agree!! ha-ha! Anyway why i thought post the tread was because i was recently in a shop bass direct, a fantastic shop, i went there to look at a mayones or whatever its called on sale at £1300.... but i also half kept looking at the fender usa p bass v deluxe at a great price (not made anymore with the Bill Lawrence P/u near the bridge) .... i seen it a few times on the site over 2 months and Wonder why on earth is that beut still for sale?? its says mint had a good price and was a 5 string ....perfect for me... so i made the trip from Essex, and looked at all the stunning eye candy (but not for long) and picked up the mayonees ... and then put the thing down again after about 2mins playing..it was a heavy bugger and looked like a gem of exotic-ness .. rather too much bordering on tacky even... then went to look at the fender.... that was that... this baby is mine had it a month now great bass... im guessing it did not get that much of a look in at the shop, but to me it was the best thing in there regardless of price tag.., after a jazz 1974 i had a while back, this is probably the best playing bass iv had..i did go to get one many years ago, but it was like £1500 then so i passed on it ....The guy in the shop Mark i think his name is said about my fender its a great bass but the pre amp is naff..and to swap it out... i thought ...what is he talking about? this bass sounds as sweet as a nut! why on earth would i wanna stick in a £300 pre amp .. its not he same fender anymore! with a slap sound out of this world, and punchy finger style why change it? ...ok i know its not the passive fender but hey i can say the same about them too, fantastic.. Reading through the posts on this tread, many have all been there high end basses, trying to squeeze out the sound imbedded in our head from years back... then as said above changing out p/u s n pre amps... (which i never did, i just got rid) only to end up selling the f***er and losing tons of dosh and swapping it back to a 2/3 knob passive bass.... haha.. It is merely my thoughts and experience over many years of playing different beasts... the 70-80s jap basses though like the arias and Yamaha they are very cool too.... they are superb. Do bear in mind its only my personal opinion after 30 years with as many and more, much more even basses i have owned in this time..
[/quote]

If may make a polite suggestion mate...

Edited June 26, 2013 by Conan

[The Dark Lord]

[quote name='greyparrot' timestamp='1372237783' post='2123119']
After 30 years playing and going through some of the 'best' basses out there i still don't believe you can beat the fender p or jazz bass. Iv had basses costing 4k and some costing £40 its not the bass its in us to make the music. Iv played basses that have pre amps as sensitive as my **** and some dead as door-nails... I (personally) think you cant beat a fender. Right now im playing a fender usa p bass deluxe v and a line 6 variaxe (great) ... I think the fender is the best bass i have played in all ways, and while i know its a very personal thing... they really are the work horse of the bass world, at least for a jobbing bass player as i am.... yeah its nice to see exotic wood but paying 2k because of it and lets face it many end up for sale i simply cant see it anymore... i think id prefer a nice table top rather than a bass to look at for exotic wood... yeah it changes the sound...but at the end of the day Fender got it right...After playing pro for many years and using and selling many basses. You can get most tones in the fingers, where and how we play, anything else can come from the tone and amp controls, you can 'will the sound' out of most basses, rather than trying endless pre amp options.... This is just my view of course and i can say i have played everything from top end spectors to old p bass copies... personally i always come back to the work horse of the bass world... Fender.. and lets face it a nice one is by no mean cheap ! but i personally think they got it right. It could well be because 30 years ago the first bass i ever had was a kay p bass copy, so i guess i grew up with the shape and fender basses were the (and still are) the main axe for most players back then.
[/quote]



Sir, you are the most righteous person on this forum. Well done. The "nay sayers" will be along in a minute, but they are whistling in the wind.

Fender dominates the world of bass and will forever rule the un-Fenders. It is the way of the bass guitar.