you cant beat fender, They got it right.....

[gareth]

[quote name='greyparrot' timestamp='1372237783' post='2123119']
After 30 years playing and going through some of the 'best' basses out there i still don't believe you can beat the fender p or jazz bass. Iv had basses costing 4k and some costing £40 its not the bass its in us to make the music. Iv played basses that have pre amps as sensitive as my **** and some dead as door-nails... I (personally) think you cant beat a fender. Right now im playing a fender usa p bass deluxe v and a line 6 variaxe (great) ... I think the fender is the best bass i have played in all ways, and while i know its a very personal thing... they really are the work horse of the bass world, at least for a jobbing bass player as i am.... yeah its nice to see exotic wood but paying 2k because of it and lets face it many end up for sale i simply cant see it anymore... i think id prefer a nice table top rather than a bass to look at for exotic wood... yeah it changes the sound...but at the end of the day Fender got it right...After playing pro for many years and using and selling many basses. You can get most tones in the fingers, where and how we play, anything else can come from the tone and amp controls, you can 'will the sound' out of most basses, rather than trying endless pre amp options.... This is just my view of course and i can say i have played everything from top end spectors to old p bass copies... personally i always come back to the work horse of the bass world... Fender.. and lets face it a nice one is by no mean cheap ! but i personally think they got it right. It could well be because 30 years ago the first bass i ever had was a kay p bass copy, so i guess i grew up with the shape and fender basses were the (and still are) the main axe for most players back then.
[/quote]
spot on - my thoughts entirely - but people like to be different, express their individuality so chose other basses - bit like Jeremy Clarkson says about cars, if everyone just acted logically, we would all drive VW Golfs (the car equivalent of the Fender Precision) I always like Leo's other creations

[discreet]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1372518184' post='2126720']One may add that Mr Fender's innovative approach to manufacture provided the means to lower the price point and open up the market to many more people than could have aspired to traditionally constructed instruments.[size=4][/quote][/size]
[size=4]Just like Mr Ford's Model T enabled the masses to buy a car. Though you don't see many of [/size][i]those [/i][size=4]around now, do you..?[/size]

Edited June 29, 2013 by discreet

[gareth]

[quote name='cloudburst' timestamp='1372240718' post='2123172']
"You can't beat Fender"
That depends on your criteria.
I love my Jazz. In 1974, aged 9, it was my first bass.
However, when I compare to my current basses:
- For tone (given the style of music I currently play) it comes last
- For weight/transportability it comes last

I still love it. But you shouldn't take your opinion and advertise it as a general fact.

CB
[/quote]
I think you also need a precision which would probably be lighter than a jazz and give you different tones

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1372518415' post='2126724']
[/size]
[size=4]Just like Mr Ford's Model T enabled the masses to buy a car. Though you don't see many of [/size][i]those [/i][size=4]around now, do you..?[/size]
[/quote]
But a big portion are still in existence but maybe locked away, others have been modified to various extents from minor things like removing bits through to total pimped out versions and the company continue to offer a viable modern day version, sound familiar?

The only difference was that the P bass has needed little or no modification where the model T has evolved through the Pop, Prefect, Anglia and Escort to become the Focus so maybe Leo did get it right in the first place?

[discreet]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1372520379' post='2126762']The only difference was that the P bass has needed little or no modification where the model T has evolved through the Pop, Prefect, Anglia and Escort to become the Focus so maybe Leo did get it right in the first place?[/quote]

Do you think there's a link? I mean, is that why the Focus is the bass player's car of choice..?

[stingrayPete1977]

Yep, plentiful, familiar, does the job well with a version for everyone That does not meen we should all drive one though, how dull would that be?

[4 Strings]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1372518184' post='2126720']
Given his background as a radio repairman, it's a minor miracle that Mr Fender conceived the basis for a pair of specialist instruments for which time and variety has produced no competitor of any significant volume.

Agreed, Paul Tutmarc remains the unlauded inventor of the electric bass, certain details might have been better executed and the headstock design may have been nicked from Paul Bigsby. It's equally true that many people were involved in bringing the products to market. This does not detract from the general 'rightness' of the designs and execution, even allowing for cumulative improvements by Fender themselves and by others.

We tend to see P's and J's just as themselves, uninfluenced by anything before or since. Some of us may detect a fifties styling. The truth is that both embody the precept of form following function, delivered through engineering rather than classic luthiery. Were there a better way of doing it, P's and J's would be forgotten by history and we'd most all of us be playing something radically different.

One may add that Mr Fender's innovative approach to manufacture provided the means to lower the price point and open up the market to many more people than could have aspired to traditionally constructed instruments.

Thing is, the story of Fender is the story of three successive companies. It's easy to forget that - only about 30 years ago - Fender was regarded as a dead duck by its owners CBS and sold for what history would regard as a negligible price. For Fender's current pre-eminence, credit should go to the late Mr Bill Schulz and his colleagues for a stunningly successful long-haul turnaround.

The reasons P's and J's are still pretty much at the top of the marketplace are Leo's design and Schulz's gameplan.
[/quote]

What's the gameplan?

Regarding price point, they have been considered to be priced highly, more so in days past than now, especially considering the quality of Fenders and their 'copies'.

[4 Strings]

[quote name='gareth' timestamp='1372518382' post='2126721']
spot on - my thoughts entirely - but people like to be different, express their individuality so chose other basses - bit like Jeremy Clarkson says about cars, if everyone just acted logically, we would all drive VW Golfs (the car equivalent of the Fender Precision) I always like Leo's other creations
[/quote]

Comparing to cars, I've regarded Precisions more like London Taxis (or, if you want to remain Stateside, the Checker cabs). Utilitarian, hardwearing, fairly timeless and iconic, adequate performance.

[winterfire666]

in my honest opinion fender = uncomfortable,unbalanced and ugly (although they sometimes look great on someone else)
they do have a nice sound though, each to their own, i suppose. :^)

[discreet]

[quote name='winterfire666' timestamp='1372523950' post='2126829']in my honest opinion fender = uncomfortable,unbalanced and ugly...[/quote]

Is it because they're not good for metal?

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1372522958' post='2126813']
What's the gameplan?[/quote]

Bit too detailed to go into here, but Schulz took the company over in the early 80's (83, IIRC) with a plan to rebuild the brand more or less from scratch. No factory, no distributor, bit of left-over stock and an agreement with a Japanese factory to knock out Strats and Teles.

As I understand it, the idea was to sell higher-end US made stuff at a premium while offshoring the cheaper stuff - which, of course, they still do. Widen the guitar brand with variation rather than innovation and have a serviceable example of the classic designs at every price-point. Acquire licensing deals for other US brands (e.g. Gretsch) to grow the corporation's offerings. Build everything up then unload stock onto financial institutions to raise the cash to bolster acquisitions, R&D etc while retaining the 'creative' control which CBS-period Fender lost in the corporate thicket. Seems to have worked.

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1372522958' post='2126813']Regarding price point, they have been considered to be priced highly, more so in days past than now, especially considering the quality of Fenders and their 'copies'.
[/quote]

When they first came out, they [i]were[/i] expensive (certainly compared to today's prices), but [i]less[/i] expensive than their immediate competitors. This was one of the reasons for embracing 'cheap', modular production methods. Better margins.

Example: Gibson's luthiers cut fret slots one at a time. Slow, expensive. Leo Fender devised a machine with multiple small cutting blades that did the whole neck in one pass. Anyone could use it, no skills required, hire them off the street. There's the genius.

Edited June 29, 2013 by skankdelvar

[winterfire666]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1372524026' post='2126830']
Is it because they're not good for metal?
[/quote]

no they are great for metal, loads of great metal bassists use em, they just arent for me.

[gareth]

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1372523128' post='2126816']
Comparing to cars, I've regarded Precisions more like London Taxis (or, if you want to remain Stateside, the Checker cabs). Utilitarian, hardwearing, fairly timeless and iconic, adequate performance.
[/quote]
yes I can see that - not the current black cabs as I understand that they are less than reliable, but the old style ones

[cloudburst]

This is just one example of how there's more to life than Fender, more to life than 4 strings and more to life than overweight big-handed male bassists.
http://www.notreble.com/buzz/2013/06/26/poliana-magalhaes-jamiroquais-runaway-playalong/

CB

Edited June 29, 2013 by cloudburst

[EMG456]

[quote]you cant beat fender, They got it right.....[/quote]

The trouble is... they don't have enough frets! (Usually)

Ed (running away laughing)

[jezzaboy]

[quote name='cloudburst' timestamp='1372545581' post='2127140']
This is just one example of how there's more to life than Fender, more to life than 4 strings and more to life than overweight big-handed male bassists.
[url="http://www.notreble.com/buzz/2013/06/26/poliana-magalhaes-jamiroquais-runaway-playalong/"]http://www.notreble....away-playalong/[/url]

CB
[/quote]

Nice playing and tone but that neck looks bloomin huge on her

[BetaFunk]

I think that this thread just goes to prove that if The Fab Four had played Fenders they really could have been a decent band.

Edited June 30, 2013 by BetaFunk

[Jellyfish]

Their original design was almost spot on, but much like other inventions, there are now a whole host of other options that beat the original in terms of quality and sound, but for a higher price of course.

Think you can't beat a Fender? There are hundreds, probably thousands, of custom and off-the-shelf basses from all sorts of companies and luthiers and price points that you haven't tried yet, so that's a bit of a generalisation and I'd urge you to try as many as you can, you might be surprised.

[Dingus]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1372603905' post='2127577']
I think that this thread just goes to prove that if The Fab Four had played Fenders they really could have been a decent band.
[/quote]

If they had stayed together long enough for Paul to get one of the first Stingrays in '76 , who knows what they might have achieved ?

[Dingus]

[quote name='cloudburst' timestamp='1372545581' post='2127140']
This is just one example of how there's more to life than Fender, more to life than 4 strings and more to life than overweight big-handed male bassists.
[url="http://www.notreble.com/buzz/2013/06/26/poliana-magalhaes-jamiroquais-runaway-playalong/"]http://www.notreble....away-playalong/[/url]

CB
[/quote]

Do me a favour and try and lay off the whole " there's more to life than overweight men who play the bass " thing . If Mrs Dingus were to see that and get those kind of ideas into her head I could be left facing a lonely future , and on top of that the prospect of having to pay for a cleaning lady and cook .

[Woodinblack]

[quote name='winterfire666' timestamp='1372523950' post='2126829']
in my honest opinion fender = uncomfortable,unbalanced and ugly
[/quote]

I was surprised last month when I decided to play a load of basses in a shop and spend some quality time picking one (unlike just ordering from ebay) how that even if you decide to just pick a fender jazz bass, how hugely different the balance was between different models and ages. Some were very unbalanced, some were far from it.

Ugly on the other hand, can't do much about that. Sadly the one I liked playing most was a fender Jaguar bass, shame it is so ugly

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1372608702' post='2127637']
If they had stayed together long enough for Paul to get one of the first Stingrays in '76 , who knows what they might have achieved ?
[/quote]
This is so true and it could have given us the advertising slogan of the century:

"Stingrays give you Wings"

(Sorry about that)

Edited June 30, 2013 by BetaFunk

[Dingus]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1372612450' post='2127698']
This is so true and it could have given us the advertising slogan of the century:

"Stingrays give you Wings"

(Sorry about that)
[/quote]

Y ou should have a career in advertising , ( then again , you are probably not sufficiently annoying on a personal level for that industry ) .

[discreet]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1372612826' post='2127703']
You should have a career in advertising, (then again, you are probably not sufficiently annoying on a personal level for that industry).[/quote]

Oh, I don't know - he is [i]quite [/i]annoying.

[LukeFRC]

Well I changed my mind at the last moment and took my Precison to play today.
wish I had taken the warwick.


Admittedly this proves nothing except telling me which bass I would prob. sell on next!