Vinyl levels (A and B Sides)

[BigRedX]

Today I received test pressings for the forthcoming Terrortones single.

We wanted to get 3 tracks on the 7" single and a specific running order which means that the A Side is just under 3 minutes long and the B Side has two tracks and is just over 5½ minutes long. Both sides have been cut at the same relative level even though the A Side could be louder as there is plenty of spare space.

Is this normal? I've looked through what is left of my vinyl collection to try and find pressings with very different length A and B Sides to see what has been done in the past. I used to have lots of singles with 2 tracks on the B Side but they all appear to have gone.

I'd much appreciate it if anyone can tell me what is the best practice for this. Should both sides be the same level or should we make the A Side louder (because we can). I'm tempted to make the A Side slightly louder just so it has a bit more impact.

What do the recording gurus think?

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1372348463' post='2124699']
Today I received test pressings for the forthcoming Terrortones single.

We wanted to get 3 tracks on the 7" single and a specific running order which means that the A Side is just under 3 minutes long and the B Side has two tracks and is just over 5½ minutes long. Both sides have been cut at the same relative level even though the A Side could be louder as there is plenty of spare space.

Is this normal? I've looked through what is left of my vinyl collection to try and find pressings with very different length A and B Sides to see what has been done in the past. I used to have lots of singles with 2 tracks on the B Side but they all appear to have gone.

I'd much appreciate it if anyone can tell me what is the best practice for this. Should both sides be the same level or should we make the A Side louder (because we can). I'm tempted to make the A Side slightly louder just so it has a bit more impact.

What do the recording gurus think?
[/quote]
I'm no recording guru but I definitely say louder.

[paul_5]

Why not have side A play at 45rpm and B at 33rpm just to confuzzle people?

[Twigman]

[quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1372350902' post='2124735']
Why not have side A play at 45rpm and B at 33rpm just to confuzzle people?
[/quote]
I have a few 7" that do this......

[MisterFingers]

I don't think that spreading the grooves over the vinyl will necessarily give a cut more headroom, because you're still dealing with the stability of the cutting head and how much it can handle before the cut is ruined, even at 45 rpm. The loudest cuts I attended had peaks at +2dbFS, which didn't sacrifice too much dynamic range, but still had poke. It's actually a good thing if the music doesn't go right into the play-out grooves anyway as the end audio suffers from "diameter loss' which cutting engineers try and compensate for, but inevitably means that there is a loss in quality - that's why the last tracks on vinyl albums are often noticeably inferior.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1372350902' post='2124735']
Why not have side A play at 45rpm and B at 33rpm just to confuzzle people?
[/quote]

Absolutely not. I hate that. 7" singles should run at 45rpm IMO. Besides the initial advice we were given was that for the running time we wanted on the B Side, 45 with less level was preferable to 33 with less bandwidth.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='MisterFingers' timestamp='1372352392' post='2124757']
I don't think that spreading the grooves over the vinyl will necessarily give a cut more headroom, because you're still dealing with the stability of the cutting head and how much it can handle before the cut is ruined, even at 45 rpm. The loudest cuts I attended had peaks at +2dbFS, which didn't sacrifice too much dynamic range, but still had poke. It's actually a good thing if the music doesn't go right into the play-out grooves anyway as the end audio suffers from "diameter loss' which cutting engineers try and compensate for, but inevitably means that there is a loss in quality - that's why the last tracks on vinyl albums are often noticeably inferior.
[/quote]

But comparing our cut with some of my other singles that only have 3-4 minutes running time per side they are peaking a good 4dB higher. So the capability is there.

[tonyquipment]

press it as a 12''

and compress the hell out of it before pressing, sidechain everything = loudness war YEAAAAA WAAAT?

[BigRedX]

[quote name='tonyquipment' timestamp='1372354094' post='2124790']
press it as a 12''

and compress the hell out of it before pressing, sidechain everything = loudness war YEAAAAA WAAAT?
[/quote]

For a the kind of music it is a 7" single makes a lot more sense, and besides the sleeve artwork has all been done to that size and doesn't have the resolution to blow up to 12".

I realise that by putting almost 6 minutes of music on one side of a 7" single we are compromising what can be done as regards level, but there's room to manoeuvre on the other side so the question is should we use it?

[JapanAxe]

This takes me back to the EP days of the late 70s. Wish I had something more useful to contribute though!

[MisterFingers]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1372354414' post='2124793']
For a the kind of music it is a 7" single makes a lot more sense, and besides the sleeve artwork has all been done to that size and doesn't have the resolution to blow up to 12".

I realise that by putting almost 6 minutes of music on one side of a 7" single we are compromising what can be done as regards level, but there's room to manoeuvre on the other side so the question is should we use it?
[/quote]

The A side is your jump up and down to song I'd guess, so I'd say pump it!

[paul_5]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1372353915' post='2124785']


Absolutely not. I hate that. 7" singles should run at 45rpm IMO. Besides the initial advice we were given was that for the running time we wanted on the B Side, 45 with less level was preferable to 33 with less bandwidth.
[/quote]
fair do's, 45rpm is the quality choice!