Neck relief check

[Greggo]

Sorry if this has had a definitive answer before, but when checking neck relief using a capo at first fret, is it the last fret you also press to check relief at 7th fret or at the fret where neck joins body?

I've read different things so not sure what to believe!

Thanks

[Evil Undead]

I always use the last fret

[stingrayPete1977]

I press down the first fret with my left hand then press down the 12th fret with my right thumb, using the right index finger I like to be just able to get a note to ring, too bouncy needs less relief and choked needs a bit of releif adding. The capo is a good idea but I have never needed to use one, I have never heard anyone pressing down the last fret to check the relief always the 12th IME? or am I reading it wrong?

Edited July 3, 2013 by stingrayPete1977

[Badass]

First and last fret for me

[franzbassist]

First and last.

[voxpop]

First and twelfth for me.

[BassBod]

I go for 12th...most necks only give from there due to the body join area supporting the top of the neck. That doesn't mean other things can't happen at the top end mind!

[Greggo]

[quote name='BassBod' timestamp='1372876970' post='2131103']
I go for 12th...most necks only give from there due to the body join area supporting the top of the neck. That doesn't mean other things can't happen at the top end mind!
[/quote]

Yes that does make more sense that from the neck join out the neck would bend from that point. I've got relief a business card thickness from measuring 1st and last and action is low without buzz but when chording an interval for example my fingers push the lower string into the frets causing a clicking. Wondering if adding more relief to neck will minimise this.

Checking 1st and 15th fret (where neck meets body on mine) there is no gap whatsoever at 7th fret!

[Andyjr1515]

1st and 16th looking for just perceptible movement at 8th fret - same as on a 6 string

[booboo]

first and last for me, it gives you a clear picture of relief at around frets 7-9. I find the relationship between relief and string height really changes the whole feel of my basses for better and worse.

[Andyjr1515]

[quote name='booboo' timestamp='1372891926' post='2131442']
first and last for me, it gives you a clear picture of relief at around frets 7-9. I find the relationship between relief and string height really changes the whole feel of my basses for better and worse.
[/quote]
Yes - I certainly agree with the last bit . It affects the feel much more than just string height...especially on a fretless

[Greggo]

Is the string tension generally a bit higher on a straighter neck?

[Andyjr1515]

[quote name='Greggo' timestamp='1372968554' post='2132335']
Is the string tension generally a bit higher on a straighter neck?
[/quote]
No - a bit like a stratocaster floating bridge, the bend on the neck is balanced against the string tension so is in equilibrium at a certain pitch. However. the distance you have to press the string is different depending on the straightness of the neck and that affects both the probability of fret buzzes and also the feel of the bass.

[stingrayPete1977]

This thread left me wondering how many others check at the last fret as all the top setter uppers (thats a technical term you know) use the 12th fret, I found this link which goes into great detail about checking at the 1st and last fret of the neck, it even has a photo with the explanation of where to check at the first and last fret below it yet clearly shows the guy using my method of no capo and the 12th fret

[url="http://www.fretnotguitarrepair.com/repair/acoustic-guitar/truss-rod.php"]http://www.fretnotgu...r/truss-rod.php[/url]

I think its best to get the neck right from the 12th up to the nut then try a straight edge against the whole neck, if the releif then becomes too much overall it needs a shim at the neck joint before doing anything else, testing and adjusting at the last fret wont help as the truss rod wont alter that end of the neck and in some cases will actually hump up or ruin the neck if you go too far, thankfully mine have always gone back down after releasing the tension but I have seen plenty of humps around the 10th fret or so, no adjusting saddle screws will get you over a hump!

Edited July 6, 2013 by stingrayPete1977

[gary mac]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1373097207' post='2133627']
This thread left me wondering how many others check at the last fret as all the top setter uppers (thats a technical term you know) use the 12th fret, I found this link which goes into great detail about checking at the 1st and last fret of the neck, it even has a photo with the explanation of where to check at the first and last fret below it yet clearly shows the guy using my method of no capo and the 12th fret

[url="http://www.fretnotguitarrepair.com/repair/acoustic-guitar/truss-rod.php"]http://www.fretnotgu...r/truss-rod.php[/url]

I think its best to get the neck right from the 12th up to the nut then try a straight edge against the whole neck, if the releif then becomes too much overall it needs a shim at the neck joint before doing anything else, testing and adjusting at the last fret wont help as the truss rod wont alter that end of the neck and in some cases will actually hump up or ruin the neck if you go too far, thankfully mine have always gone back down after releasing the tension but I have seen plenty of humps around the 10th fret or so, no adjusting saddle screws will get you over a hump!
[/quote]

I've always used the last fret but will now try this method as it does seem to make sense

Before making a final decision I may head off and ask MDP for his advice

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='gary mac' timestamp='1373098266' post='2133643']
I've always used the last fret but will now try this method as it does seem to make sense

Before making a final decision I may head off and ask MDP for his advice
[/quote]
No dont do that!

I will also try the other method of last fret but you can see what I am saying as the last bit of the neck never moves anyway so the only thing other than major router work is either a shim to tip the neck up at the body end if the lowest possible truss rod setting is still too high for a low action or just a playable action on a bad bass, or raising the saddles if the neck is already too high in the pocket compared to the bridge when the desired relief is set. Everyone has a personal taste too so lots of relief but a fairly low saddle height suits some folk even if its technically not right, quite a few people I know would hate a bass set to the [i]perfect[/i] Fender factory settings!

[wrinkleygit]

As the truss rod runs for more or less the length of the fretboard, this would be it's effective working length, in reality any movement the truss rod will make will occur between the point that the neck joins the body & the first fret position,check the neck relief by fretting at 1st & wherever neck joins the body,look at gap between top of fret & underside of string at mid point & decide how low or high you want your playing action, for realy low, gap should be the thickness of a business card but for correct playing action there always needs to be a gap, this method has worked for me for over 40 years on guitars & basses, mike b.

[stingrayPete1977]

By the time you would notice any movement on frets near the neck joint the hump around the 7th fret would be massive though, or possibly even buggered the truss rod. The way of adjusting 40 years ago wont allow for some of the super low actions some people like these days, I am lucky that I dont mind a bit of height but I know loads of players that would find even a business card to be classed as high action!

[wrinkleygit]

think you have misread my post you need to check the relief at the mid point between the first fret & the point where the neck joins the body, on most instruments this would be around the 7-9th fret

[tedmanzie]

[quote name='wrinkleygit' timestamp='1373114769' post='2133858']
think you have misread my post you need to check the relief at the mid point between the first fret & the point where the neck joins the body, on most instruments this would be around the 7-9th fret
[/quote]
+1
i go for an almost dead straight neck with the tinniest bit of relief around the 7th fret. barely a thin business card (there must be something more generally available and of standardised width?!)

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='wrinkleygit' timestamp='1373114769' post='2133858']
think you have misread my post you need to check the relief at the mid point between the first fret & the point where the neck joins the body, on most instruments this would be around the 7-9th fret
[/quote]
Ah I see what you are saying now yes I still prefer to hold down between the 1st and 12th fret, I dont use a gauge either as I find getting that area to the point just after it would choke is as good as any neck can ever be without a microtilt adjustment or a shim. Like I said before everyones tastes are different so if you like the typical Fender manual settings for string height and releif etc then my way will probably end up too straight anyway.

[BILL POSTERS]

Is it all that critical ?

My way. Thumb of left hand on 1st fret, Ring finger if the right hand at about the 16th fret, and push down at around the 7th or 8th with my thumb. Get it straight, then increase the relief a bit at a time till it plays nice, usually about 2 thicknesses of fag packet, but never really measured it.
Point is, when it plays right - its right. Surely which fret, and how much relief depends on what works.

Edited July 6, 2013 by BILL POSTERS

[Greggo]

I had another go at setting neck relief but realised my bass feels much nicer with a straighter neck, albeit the bridge saddles need to go up a bit.

One thing I can't shake with a low action is an annoying clicking when playing a note on a string when string below is fretted, because my fingers are pushing string below one into frets. Probably a technique thing though anyone else experienced this?

[stingrayPete1977]

That sounds like a technique issue to me, I am quite a clicky player and stingrays have an inherant click anyway but I just had a play to see where it comes from and I am not playing any other strings, try getting a better angle with your fingers or pick more over the top rather than brushing over maybe, also I dont know what anyone else does but I think I tend to mute with my left hand in some subconcious way other than the note I want?

[Greggo]

I think the way pluck seems to be diagonally through string which seems to smack the string below. If the string below is fretted it clicks if it's not fretted (or muted) it makes an audible thud. I may need to relearn my finger style techniques perhaps. I reckon it's probably always been the case but I've only in last year been practicing bass at home solo, in a band situ I think it's probably not noticeable which is when I've only really ever played bass.

What is a better technique for plucking?