Most of what I've said about playing bass on here is bollocks.

[xilddx]

I'm a decent player, I can write, play other instruments to a good standard, and I've got good ears. I don't know much theory and I don't read music well, but I thought my ears and experience compensated for those lackings. I play with some great musicians in amateur and professional bands. I've been playing for 30+ years.

I really thought I knew some sh*t about music and playing bass.

But having started taking lessons from Jake, I have had my brain fragmented, and we are in the process of putting it back together to create a new improved mass of grey sh*t in my bonce. I've realised that my lack of confidence was compensated for with a certain vanity, and a bunch of excuses. The fact is, I'm feeling like a musical baby now, starting with the very basics of music theory and building towards a proper understanding of my fretboard and harmony.

I've imparted a fair bit of 'wisdom' on this forum about playing bass over the last few years, but looking back, most of it is utter bullshit, rubbish, imparted from a position of blind ignorance and sheer laziness, and a lack of ability to perceive the benefits of learning music theory and notation. I think I'm beginning to understand now. I feel like I have wasted decades f***ing and fiddling around, trying to unlock the fretboard through pattern recognition and reading crap out of various books without understanding why. I could have spent a little money on a tutor, and some focused time and energy, and saved years of aimless pissing twattery. I'd be a helluva lot better now if I'd have done that, and I'd have talked a lot less f***ing bollocks on here.

[Clarky]

If people stopped talking b*llocks, there'd be no BassChat. Woz not, Nige!

[Lord Sausage]

Well I didn't want to say anything!

[charic]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1372859085' post='2130788']
I'm a decent player, I can write, play other instruments to a good standard, and I've got good ears. I don't know much theory and I don't read music well, but I thought my ears and experience compensated for those lackings. I play with some great musicians in amateur and professional bands. I've been playing for 30+ years.

I really thought I knew some sh*t about music and playing bass.

But having started taking lessons from Jake, I have had my brain fragmented, and we are in the process of putting it back together to create a new improved mass of grey sh*t in my bonce. I've realised that my lack of confidence was compensated for with a certain vanity, and a bunch of excuses. The fact is, I'm feeling like a musical baby now, starting with the very basics of music theory and building towards a proper understanding of my fretboard and harmony.

I've imparted a fair bit of 'wisdom' on this forum about playing bass over the last few years, but looking back, most of it is utter bullshit, rubbish, imparted from a position of blind ignorance and sheer laziness, and a lack of ability to perceive the benefits of learning music theory and notation. I think I'm beginning to understand now. I feel like I have wasted decades f***ing and fiddling around, trying to unlock the fretboard through pattern recognition and reading crap out of various books without understanding why. I could have spent a little money on a tutor, and some focused time and energy, and saved years of aimless pissing twattery. I'd be a helluva lot better now if I'd have done that, and I'd have talked a lot less f***ing bollocks on here.
[/quote]

If you want to get your head around musical theory without it seeming incredibly dull I recommend taking up keyboard as a side hobby mate. The bass is a great instrument but it isn't a visual one. When you have those keys in front of you something just clicks IMO

[ead]

Occasionally thought provoking, sometimes controversial, not convinced about the bollocks personally. I don't always agree with you but I do enjoy reading your posts. Don't beat yourself up, others may well be less conscientious.

[xilddx]

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1372859511' post='2130797']
If you want to get your head around musical theory without it seeming incredibly dull I recommend taking up keyboard as a side hobby mate. The bass is a great instrument but it isn't a visual one. When you have those keys in front of you something just clicks IMO
[/quote]

Thaks, I do mate, and I play guitar, bugger about with drums, and now beatboxing

Jake has made music theory fascinating to me, I always thought it would be, like maths, you just need the right teacher.

[charic]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1372859658' post='2130804']
Thaks, I do mate, and I play guitar, bugger about with drums, and now beatboxing

Jake has made music theory fascinating to me, I always thought it would be, like maths, you just need the right teacher.
[/quote]

Actually music theory and maths is a pretty good comparison

I've never found it interesting personally but I've got enough to get by should I need it and know enough to learn more by myself if I am so inclined. It's a good place to be. I did hit a point where I couldn't "let go" and think outside of the theory I knew which turned into a problem for a good while though

[Dad3353]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1372859085' post='2130788']Most of what I've said about playing bass on here is bollocks.[/quote]

So what's new..?

Seriously, though, I would put most of BC (and, indeed, most fora, worldwide...) in the same categorie. There are some (few, but some...) who can lend authority to their posts here, but in general there is more shadow than light in the 'expertise' offered. This is not a condemnation at all; it simply means that one has to have a great deal of salt for pinching when looking for 'real' stuff on the web in general. Gems are to be found (and, to be fair, Nigel, you may have unwittingly proffered one or two yourself..!), but all our differing needs, tastes, experiences and intellects mean that meat, to one, is gristle to another.
Don't despair. 30+ years, you say..? Another couple of decades and the blinkers [i]really [/i]come off. You'll enjoy that day, too..!

Edited July 3, 2013 by Dad3353

[Lord Sausage]

I had a few lessons of jake at college when was about 18. He won't remember me. In my youthful arrogance i stopped goin because i didn't feel i was learning anything. I had been learning theory (jazz) and reading from the day i started with my first teacher. I found myself doing spider patterns and being given and basic techniques things that i thought i was above. At the minute i've had to disassemble my playing and start from the beginning to iron out bad habits and i'm doing all that stuff again. So i wish i'd stayed around a bit longer. I'm not trying to dis him but at the time i didn't find the lessons very inspiring, unlike my previous teachers, but now i'm older i've realised you can always learn of great players which undoubtedly he is. He's probably much better since then and i know i'm worse. That's why i've started again. Luckily thru years of theory that i've constantly learned (being a geek for info, like a human Johnny 5 from short circuit) and stuff i learned at uni I'm in a position to teach myself and it's just technique i need to work on. but the first place i started was with the spider thing he showed me.

[Lord Sausage]

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1372859511' post='2130797']
If you want to get your head around musical theory without it seeming incredibly dull I recommend taking up keyboard as a side hobby mate. The bass is a great instrument but it isn't a visual one. When you have those keys in front of you something just clicks IMO
[/quote]I think it's the other way round. You always know how far a certain interval is away on bass, when playing keyboard you have to think within what key you are in. IMO. Luckily i was academic at school and blessed with a good memory so theory wasn't to difficult.

[Dave Vader]

Thank you, about time...

seriously true though, I was struggling with trying to sort out chords for an Alicia keys song on a guitar dep gig last week.
Though i needed 3 more fingers on my left hand, then stopped thinking about it like a guitar player, went back to first musical principles, found the 3 notes that needed to stand out inside the horn parts for each chord, and suddenly the whole thing was a piece of piss.
Patterns mess you up, knowing what notes you need to be hitting helps a lot more.

[Lord Sausage]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1372859658' post='2130804']
Thaks, I do mate, and I play guitar, bugger about with drums, and now beatboxing

Jake has made music theory fascinating to me, I always thought it would be, like maths, you just need the right teacher.
[/quote]
[quote name='charic' timestamp='1372859775' post='2130807']
Actually music theory and maths is a pretty good comparison

I've never found it interesting personally but I've got enough to get by should I need it and know enough to learn more by myself if I am so inclined. It's a good place to be. I did hit a point where I couldn't "let go" and think outside of the theory I knew which turned into a problem for a good while though
[/quote]I always found it was just like maths, just a beautiful and creative maths.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1372860350' post='2130816']
I always found it was just like maths, just a beautiful and creative maths.
[/quote]

Yeah exactly!

[KevB]

I'm sorry this just isn't a very scientific point of view. We really need the control data and to have a time machine to send Nige back to have lessons from Jake years ago and [i]then [/i]check to see if he wouldn't have just ended up talking bollocks anyway.

[acidbass]

Always nice to have lessons but never forget - you are the best bass player in the world at sounding like you! Everyone has their own voice and approaches and you shouldn't lose what you have already learned just to accommodate musical theory. In my experience it can make a player a bit more rigid.

[RhysP]

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1372861130' post='2130831']
I'm sorry this just isn't a very scientific point of view. We really need the control data and to have a time machine to send Nige back to have lessons from Jake years ago and [i]then [/i]check to see if he wouldn't have just ended up talking bollocks anyway.
[/quote]
I don't think we need to go to that much trouble for the answer to that question, do we?
It would just be evangelical pro-theory bollocks instead.

[xilddx]

[quote name='acidbass' timestamp='1372861174' post='2130832']
Always nice to have lessons but never forget - you are the best bass player in the world at sounding like you! Everyone has their own voice and approaches and you shouldn't lose what you have already learned just to accommodate musical theory. In my experience it can make a player a bit more rigid.
[/quote]
That what I used to think, but I feel completely the opposite now, there is nothing more rigid than ignorance.

Obviously if you have limited and uninteresting musical imagination, that needs to be improved too, but if you do have those imaginative qualities, how can learning how to get them out through your instrument going to make you rigid? That's the attitude that's been holding people like me back all these years.

Edited July 3, 2013 by xilddx

[Thurbs]

Congratulations on taking the difficult step of accepting where you are and having the courage to go outside your confort zone and improve.

As you say, this is often the hardest part and until any individual accepts where they are and has an open mind, they can not move forward.

As for the internet being full of bollocks... what took you so long

[thunderbird13]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1372859085' post='2130788']
I've imparted a fair bit of 'wisdom' on this forum about playing bass over the last few years, but looking back, most of it is utter bullshit, rubbish, imparted from a position of blind ignorance and sheer laziness, .
[/quote]

so lets get this right , is there such a thing as core tone ? and do you have to lock with the kick drum ?

I really wouldnt be too hard on yourself ( and I'm sure your not ) but if you had learnt more theory and reading before you mighnt have got it. I think that in learning new stuff we have all have times in our lives when we get it and other times when presente with the same information its more of a meh

Serious question why do you need a teacher for theory , I would have thought its the one area of music where you can teach yourself

Edited July 3, 2013 by thunderbird13

[xilddx]

[quote name='Thurbs' timestamp='1372861734' post='2130841'] Congratulations on taking the difficult step of accepting where you are and having the courage to go outside your confort zone and improve. As you say, this is often the hardest part and until any individual accepts where they are and has an open mind, they can not move forward. As for the internet being full of bollocks... what took you so long [/quote]

Thank you mate

[lowdown]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1372859085' post='2130788']
I'm a decent player, I can write, play other instruments to a good standard, and I've got good ears. I don't know much theory and I don't read music well, but I thought my ears and experience compensated for those lackings. I play with some great musicians in amateur and professional bands. I've been playing for 30+ years.

I really thought I knew some sh*t about music and playing bass.

But having started taking lessons from Jake, I have had my brain fragmented, and we are in the process of putting it back together to create a new improved mass of grey sh*t in my bonce. I've realised that my lack of confidence was compensated for with a certain vanity, and a bunch of excuses. The fact is, I'm feeling like a musical baby now, starting with the very basics of music theory and building towards a proper understanding of my fretboard and harmony.

I've imparted a fair bit of 'wisdom' on this forum about playing bass over the last few years, but looking back, most of it is utter bullshit, rubbish, imparted from a position of blind ignorance and sheer laziness, and a lack of ability to perceive the benefits of learning music theory and notation. I think I'm beginning to understand now. I feel like I have wasted decades f***ing and fiddling around, trying to unlock the fretboard through pattern recognition and reading crap out of various books without understanding why. I could have spent a little money on a tutor, and some focused time and energy, and saved years of aimless pissing twattery. I'd be a helluva lot better now if I'd have done that, and I'd have talked a lot less f***ing bollocks on here.
[/quote]

Good news....That means you won't be spouting any more of that "Hippy Bollox"...........
Bad news......Instead it will be "Jazz Bollox".............
But with good news.... hopefully all the bollox will have a Coda and Fine....rather than just a round & round until fade bollox.

Good luck with it all..


Garry

Edited July 3, 2013 by lowdown

[Fat Rich]

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1372861130' post='2130831']
I'm sorry this just isn't a very scientific point of view. We really need the control data and to have a time machine to send Nige back to have lessons from Jake years ago and [i]then [/i]check to see if he wouldn't have just ended up talking bollocks anyway.
[/quote]

Somehow I don't think we need to bother, I think we all know the answer!

Music theory is fantastic for stretching your ears and finding new things to play in any given situation, but the fact remains that playing the same old bluesy patterns, roots, octaves and fifths sounds great for most songs if played with some feeling and panache.

Some bass players seem to think learning theory will make them lose their identity and sound like a clone, but you don't have to apply all your music theory all the time. There's a lot to be said for keeping it simple, but it's all a bit crap if you've no choice but to keep it simple cos you know nowt.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Fat Rich

[xilddx]

[quote name='thunderbird13' timestamp='1372862131' post='2130847'] so lets get this right , is there such a thing as core tone ? and do you have to lock with the kick drum ? I really wouldnt be too hard on yourself ( and I'm sure your not ) but if you had learnt more theory and reading before you mighnt have got it. I think that in learning new stuff we have all have times in our lives when we get it and other times when presente with the same information its more of a meh [b]Serious question why do you need a teacher for theory , I would have thought its the one area of music where you can teach yourself[/b] [/quote]


I thought that too, but certainly it's not true for me. First you have to be shown WHY you need to learn it. Just one little thing Jake has shown me has unlocked a big chunk of fingerboard for me. I have to memorise it in all 24 keys, but that's just repetition. It's like the floodlights have been turned on. There is simply just too much information to make sense of unless you're a genius and able teach yourself to a high level of knowledge, you would need enormous motivation and time and a clear sense of application.

[canarybass]

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1372859511' post='2130797']
If you want to get your head around musical theory without it seeming incredibly dull I recommend taking up keyboard as a side hobby mate. The bass is a great instrument but it isn't a visual one. When you have those keys in front of you something just clicks IMO
[/quote]

+1. I learnt piano before playing bass, and I still find it much easier to visualise scales, triads, chords etc by reference to a keyboard.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Fat Rich' timestamp='1372862485' post='2130854'] Somehow I don't think we need to bother, I think we all know the answer! Music theory is fantastic for stretching your ears and finding new things to play in any given situation, but the fact remains that playing the same old bluesy patterns, roots, octaves and fifths sounds great for most songs if played with some feeling and panache. [b]Some bass players seem to think learning theory will make them lose their identity and sound like a clone[/b], but you don't have to apply all your music theory all the time. There's a lot to be said for keeping it simple, but it's all a bit crap if you've no choice but to keep it simple cos you know nowt. [/quote]

Exactly. I'm actually learning THROUGH jazz, even though I don't like almost all jazz I've heard. It's great fun to play walking bass over complex changes, which is what I've started learning. I thought I could improvise, but it was only over changes with little or no modulation, and now I see that even that was pretty pathetic compared to the possibilities I can see now. It's opened my ears too, it's like finding a goldmine.