Pimp my room! - home studio acoustics help

[Mornats]

So, I've been watching the videos that Skej21 mentioned on here ([url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/211770-studio-rescue/"]http://basschat.co.u...-studio-rescue/[/url]) and I've been reading Mike Senior's brilliant book - Mixing Secret for the Small Studio ([url="http://cambridge-mt.com/MixingSecrets.htm"]http://cambridge-mt....xingSecrets.htm[/url]) and I'm going to tackle the first major issue - my room.

So here are a couple of photos of my current set up and a list of things that I think/know are a problem right off:[list=1]
[*]I'm in the corner of the room. This is a big no-no but I don't have the space to position my desk anywhere else without basically turning my living room into nothing but a recording studio. The wall on the right would be ideal but it has a radiator on it (problems with blocking heat in the winter and also my PC is a gaming PC and heat doesn't mix well with it).

[*]My speaker stands for my BX5As are my Tannoy E11s! I'm pretty sure this isn't ideal however it does put them at around head height.

[*]I have no acoustic panels/bass traps.

[*]Whilst seated, I've got the wall immediately to my right and over to the left (8-9 feet away) is a patio door with a blind over it.
[/list]
In terms of what I can do room wise, I could move the desk away from the wall by about 6 inches and move it to the left around a foot. I can put some acoustic foam and bass traps up.

I mix mainly on headphones (Superlux HD 662F - made by the company who makes the components for AKG and they look remarkably similar to some AKGs. They sound very similar to my m-audio monitors too which helps. I also sense-check the mix against my Tannoy E11s which go through a Rotel RA-930 AX amp (both over 20 years old and still rocking out). I heard that the Tannoys used to be used for studio monitors due their very nice flat response. These are unique however as the Tannoy rep and my older bro took them apart, rewired them and sealed up the cabs.

My two most recent mixes (to get an idea of where some problems exist) are:

[url="http://soundcloud.com/mornats/when-things-come-out-at-night"]http://soundcloud.co...me-out-at-night[/url]
[url="http://soundcloud.com/beautiful-skin/missing-busses-1"]http://soundcloud.co...issing-busses-1[/url]

Room pics:

[attachment=138557:room1.jpg]

[attachment=138556:room2.jpg]

Edited July 7, 2013 by Mornats

[Skol303]

Excellent idea Paul! I'll be following this thread with interest

I mix solely on headphones, mainly because the room I work in doubles as Skol Jnr's play room and there's no way I could acoustically treat it to any worthwhile degree (plus I tend to work late). However, I'm planning to set up a more dedicated 'music room' when we move house, so this thread will hopefully be a good source of inspiration for that.

PS: [i]Sound on Sound[/i] magazine run regular features on how to set up a home studio. Work having a look over some back issues or their website.

[BigRedX]

SOS also have a [url=http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=DESIGN]whole section of their forums dedicated to studio design and acoustics[/url].

[Mornats]

Oooh brilliant, some reading material - cheers! Good job I've got the week off

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

Looks like you have a similar problem as me. (I also have my stuff in a corner of living room) .
Have you thought of getting a long computer desk and ditching the one you have?

[Mornats]

Well, I've got two DVD stands that are the same height as my desk which could make for some makeshift speaker stands. The main problem I have (and I suspect you have too Ray) is getting out of the corner without taking over the entire room!

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1373276103' post='2135458']
I mix solely on headphones, mainly because the room I work in doubles as Skol Jnr's play room and there's no way I could acoustically treat it to any worthwhile degree (plus I tend to work late).
[/quote]

Same here on both counts. So that could be the solution you know. Your mixes sound great so nothing wrong with mixing on headphones then. Do you use monitors for checking stereo width mainly? I think 5imon uses these: [url="http://www.studiospares.com/headphones-studio/studiospares-m1000-headphones/invt/448760"]http://www.studiospares.com/headphones-studio/studiospares-m1000-headphones/invt/448760[/url] (although I think he called them H1000s?) and I'm more than happy to go with his recommendation.

So here's the option. I could try making my living more centred around music production, i.e. moving it so that the computer desk is more of a focus than the TV (I live on my own so it's only me that would be upset by that) and get some acoustic pads to place around the room. I think I'd always be compromising somewhere though. Or I could invest more in headphones and use my monitors more for stereo mixing stuff (see, I know all the technical terms).

So if the latter is the case, is there still anything that I'd need to do to the room to help with the stereo stuff?

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

When I get a mo' this evening, I'll take a pic of my situation ,and you'll see where I'm coming from. May help both of us

[51m0n]

Stuck in a corner is a total no no, you cant compromise the stereo reproduction more than that!

You can try bridging the corner with the desk to make a trianglular gap behind it though, that can help, especially if you build a bass trap into that triangle between the back of the desk and the corner. This also can work becaues the sound reflecting off the wall bounces out into the room rathre than back into your ears out of phase with the direct to your ear sound, so you lose all that nasty confusing comb filtering.

Leaving the desk where it is is a recipe for disaster though, download Room Eq Wizard and get hold of a little Behringer measurement mic and test your room to see for sure, but I guarantee you wont get anythinglike a real stereo image and the comb fiultering will ruin any chance of good eq decisions too.

And yes its the M1000 I use for headphones, and they are exceptional value for money IMO.

[Skol303]

[quote name='Mornats' timestamp='1373287644' post='2135637']Same here on both counts. So that could be the solution you know. Your mixes sound great so nothing wrong with mixing on headphones then. Do you use monitors for checking stereo width mainly? [/quote]

Cheers mate! That's good to know

Yeah, I always give my mixes a final listen on one or all of the following:

- 'Hifi' system: old Tannoy speakers and an even older Cirrus amp
- Boombox: a little all-in-one thingy that we have in the kitchen
- iPhone: both earbuds and built-in speaker
- Car stereo
- Mate's systems (including pestering people on here for feedback - 51m0n included )

...each of these gives a different response that I use to tweak my final mixes.

That said, my most reliable reference is my headphones. That's not a recommended solution by any means - it's just that I've got to know my cans very well (I've been using the same pair for nearly 3 years) and so I trust the results I get on them. Or to put it another way: I know their inadequacies and do my best to compensate.

My next step is definitely to invest in some proper monitors and room treatment, but as mentioned that'll have to wait until we move house.

[Mornats]

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1373289914' post='2135695']
Yeah, I always give my mixes a final listen on one or all of the following:

- 'Hifi' system: old Tannoy speakers and an even older Cirrus amp
- Boombox: a little all-in-one thingy that we have in the kitchen
- iPhone: both earbuds and built-in speaker
- Car stereo
- Mate's systems (including pestering people on here for feedback - 51m0n included )

...each of these gives a different response that I use to tweak my final mixes.

That said, my most reliable reference is my headphones. That's not a recommended solution by any means - it's just that I've got to know my cans very well (I've been using the same pair for nearly 3 years) and so I trust the results I get on them. Or to put it another way: I know their inadequacies and do my best to compensate.
[/quote]

I use my Superlux HD662F headphones, my M-Audio BX5as (through my Guitar Rig I/O), my Tannoy E11s through a Rotel RA-930AX (with a signal taken from my Soundblaster X-Fi sound card), my Galaxy S2 with the Superlux headphones then also my AKG K313 earbuds on the Galaxy and finally my crappy Logitech 2.1 PC speaker system that I've got in my kitchen. It's waaaay too bassy and boomy and tinny all combined. I've only just started listening in the car too (I can never hear any bass in the car which is a tell-tale sign).

So my next question... well two... 1. is it worth sticking with the Superlux headphones if I'm used to them? Or will upgrading to the Studiospares M1000s give me a whole new perspective on my mixes? 2. Do bass traps need to fixed to the wall? I live in rented accommodation and even those pictures I've got hanging on my wall are technically against the rules I'll move my desk around today, and see about getting a bass trap. I'm sure I've seen some for £25 which is worth a punt at least.

Finally (so actually 3 questions), will I notice a big difference with facing the corner and putting a bass trap in or will it be a subtle (yet still important) change? I guess a lot of people are put off from fixing their rooms because they can't "picture" (or hear) the difference it will make. You can notice the difference a new set of more expensive monitors with bigger woofers straight away so I guess it's tempting to go for that first. But I've been reading Mike Senior's book and listening to advice on here and I know that the room is the way to go first! I don't want to make a lot of big changes only to find that I can barely tell the difference - and I think many others would initially think the same.

[51m0n]

A sinbnlge bass trap will make some difference, no it need not be attaqched to the wall, in fact a gap behind it will make it more efficient, there are many good variations on bass traps documented on the web, one in each corner, floor to celing is the way to do it really.

Moving the desk around should immediately help stereo image from the monitors, noticeably so in fact. Thats before you get on to basstraping/absorption.

Will treating the room have a noticeable difference?

In short, if you cant tell the difference you would have to be virtually deaf IME.

[Ian Savage]

What S1mon said (see what I did there? ) - maximising the symmetry of your room is studio design 101. If you absolutely have to be in the corner, yep, get yourself a corner desk of some sort or at the very least angle what you have into it, and bass-trap the corner. Something like this: http://www.the-product.co.uk/malibu-corner-desk---pine-effect-11824-p.asp, a bit of high-density Rockwool and a few quids' worth of wood to build some kind of frame and you'll have improved your room sound immeasurably.

[Mornats]

Righto, I'll get cracking with this then. I'll start with moving the desk. Out of interest, does this look any good? [url="http://www.dv247.com/studio-equipment/dv-studio-acoustic-treatment-bundle--201753"]http://www.dv247.com/studio-equipment/dv-studio-acoustic-treatment-bundle--201753[/url]

Oh, and sorry for all the questions (but hopefully others will be thinking of the same ones) but if you can see my speaker setup (Tannoy on the bottom, then an acoustic foam isolator pad, then my BX5a) - is this something that needs tackling? I do have another pair of those isolation pads.

[51m0n]

You'd be far better off buying rockwool and some simple wood to make frames and do some DIY.

A 4" thick floor to ceiling panel of rockwool across each corner, with some soft fluffy insulation behind it and some acoustically transparent material ( a hessian for instance - if you can blow through it its acoustically transparent) to cover it in a very simple frame will cost less and do more.

[51m0n]

There are many many DIY builds of basstraps on the interweb, you dont need to do make full on [url="http://nagasakisound.com/how-to-build-corner-bass-trap/"]Superchunk [/url]style basstraps - these definitely work but require a great deal of rockwool - the corner crossing type I have described function as well as superchunks, since these type of absorption traps work by slowing down the moving air, not by soaking up the energy in the pressure wave. As such they work best off the wall, not agaiunst it, and therefore the superchuinks are wasting a lot of material that is inefficiently placed.

[Mornats]

Step 1 complete:

[attachment=138599:newsetup.jpg]

It takes up much more room so I'll look at getting a corner desk like Ian suggested. One thing I have to watch out for is getting one with enough space for my full tower PC - that's the aircraft carrier sized thing on the bottom right.

Off for a listen to some tracks with (what I thought was) good stereo effects now

[51m0n]

Heh, good sound takes room, that is a given I'm afraid!

Next trick, with a friend and a mirror they can move around.

Whilst sat in the critical listening position get them to hold the mirror on the wall, if you can turn your head and see a reflection of a speaker in the mirror you need an absorber on the wall there. With the walls and speakers angled as they are you may find it very hard to find any reflection points, but its still worth double checking!

[Mornats]

I'll do that next (once I find a friend, by which I mean, they're all at work at the moment!). So am I looking out for any part of the speaker or just the cones? For example if I can see the side or back of one do I still need to chuck an acoustic pad up there?

[51m0n]

Cones really, the thing is sound below 150Hz is omnidirectional, but you havent got the space in there to stick anything up capable of dealing with any reflections that low anyway, so if it isnt straight from the cone you cant hope to do much to sort it. Does that make sense?

[lurksalot]

I have saved a couple of old duvets that I can throw over a lighting bar that I use occassionally that seems to help as a measure that I can put away after I have finished , but SWMBO has design criteria that will look quite good but may not help the room , but I have a angular vaulted ceiling and that helps to reduce some of the box shape of the room . I may get a chance to do a bit of adapting , but it has to look the part

[Mornats]

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1373301003' post='2135864']
Cones really, the thing is sound below 150Hz is omnidirectional, but you havent got the space in there to stick anything up capable of dealing with any reflections that low anyway, so if it isnt straight from the cone you cant hope to do much to sort it. Does that make sense?
[/quote]

Yep, makes sense, cheers. So I may or may not need more acoustic treatment based on whether I can see any cones in the mirror. So for now, I just need a bass trap. I wonder if I can hang a duvet over something like Lurkalot's doing... (at least until I can get/make a bass trap).

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

Here is pic of my corner ..

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

..if. I had a long table, it would fit keyboad , ipad and monitors all on one level

[Mornats]

I'd get your desk off the ceiling first! (Or in other words, your photo's upside down.)

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

[quote name='Mornats' timestamp='1373312515' post='2136074']
I'd get your desk off the ceiling first! (Or in other words, your photo's upside down.)
[/quote]

One of them days ( see my new post)