Effect loop output Voltage, impedance and the like

[BassTractor]

This is a noob question, I know, but noobs do still exist, so ...

I've often wondered what type of Voltage and output impedance can be found in amp's effect loop outputs, and what type of effect gear builders think of when building amps with these.

I understand there's a difference between feeding an "effected" signal to the preamp or sending an pre-amped signal to an effect unit, but that is not what I'm trying to ask about here. It's just about the electronics in this: voltages, impedances and whatever else that is linked to it.

I'd noobly assume that say a Boss floor effect will do nicely with both hot and less hot pups/built-in preamps, but then, does the average preamp in the amplifier change any voltage at all? I'd assume most head preamps do not actually amplify, but that some do.
I'd also noobly assume that a unit like a TC Electronic G# or M350 would expect say a 1V signal with low output impedance, and might not do well with a cold passive pup.
These assumptions may be on Mars for all I know.


So, does it matter at all (remember: voltage and impedance wise that is - I'm still not talking about preamp settings affecting the signal before or after an effect unit), where in the chain you put your different units?


Thanks for any info that helps my poor brain.


best,
bert

[xgsjx]

The loop in most amps is a lower level compared to the signal from a bass & is normally more suited to rack effects.
Envelope & dirt pedals are the ones that would most likely sound different with the posibility that the envelope wouldn't get a hot enough signal to trigger it fully.
Experimentation is the way to go.
I tried it & it meant I was running an extra wire to the pedalboard & not getting as good a drive sound & if I us the auto filter on the LPF, it hardly did anything.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

The output voltage of a loop typically runs 1v at 600 to 1000 ohms. That makes it not a good match for floor pedals that expect maybe 100mv with the 25kohm output impedance of a bass.

[BassTractor]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1373747793' post='2141285']
The output voltage of a loop typically runs 1v at 600 to 1000 ohms. That makes it not a good match for floor pedals that expect maybe 100mv with the 25kohm output impedance of a bass.
[/quote]

Thanks, guys!
In my head, this means I assumed right then.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

b,
b

[Dave_the_bass]

These are the kind of questions that I usually think of in the middle of the night, but by the time I wake up in the morning I've forgotten all about it.

And I've just realised the answer to my follow up question. Yay me! The answer is phase shift!

[BassTractor]

Hehehe. Great answer to your follow up question!
Me, I'm now gonna put every effect I own in the loop, like Kaoss Pads and studio stuff and the like. Those, and Kaoss Pads. I feel secure they'll work just fine there, and might just do something nice in addition.
One never knows.
To be sure though, I'll add an extra Kaoss Pad.


b,
b

[Dave_the_bass]

Just to clarify, my follow up question was:

When using my octave pedal on one of the channel effects loops, in mix mode (Shuttlemax amp), why do I get a delay/echo effect?

[BassTractor]

OK, I admit I had no idea that it was an octave pedal you were thinking of, but the rest was evident though. In this case, the question [i]had[/i] to be where the delay came from when using the loop.

b,
b

[umph]

[quote name='Dave_the_bass' timestamp='1374002272' post='2144170']
Just to clarify, my follow up question was:

When using my octave pedal on one of the channel effects loops, in mix mode (Shuttlemax amp), why do I get a delay/echo effect?
[/quote]

thats a strange one

[Dave_the_bass]

I found it rather strange too, not entirely unpleasant, but definitely strange!

It did convince me to go bass - octave - amp, thus saving a cable and potential failure point.

[pete.young]

[quote name='Dave_the_bass' timestamp='1374002272' post='2144170']
Just to clarify, my follow up question was:

When using my octave pedal on one of the channel effects loops, in mix mode (Shuttlemax amp), why do I get a delay/echo effect?
[/quote]
Because you have a parallel effects loop, and you're getting a blend of the clean and effected signal.

[JapanAxe]

Pah! Effects loops are for wimps!

**scuttles off and hides under bed**

[BassTractor]

Why hide, Axe? We're wimps! We aren't gonna harm you!?!?



Must say I have a hard time getting all of this. I'd think a typically 1V / 600 Ohm output would give me a signal fitting for say one of my Kaoss Pads, but no matter what I try, I get no sound.
Maybe it's about time Bert stopped trying to understand stuff, and tried to learn bass instead of linking every box in the house.

b,
b