njr911 Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 On my Ashdown and on many other Amps I look at there's an effects loop. Since playing guitat through vintage amps I have always put all my pedles in a chain from my guitar to the amp input. What is the benifit of using a seperate loop ? All I can see is that you increase the number of cables on stage from 1 to 3 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 (edited) It's all about signal chain placement and impedance matching. Some effects sound better post pre-amp drive and amp EQ (especially if you have a valve pre-amp and use lots of gain) in particular chorus, delay and filter/gate effects. Having an effects loop on the amp gives you more versatility in placement of these effects in the signal path. Remember that technically valve drive and EQ are both effects and aren't always best placed at the end of the chain. If you use rack mounted effects units some of them will expect line level signals and impedances. Again having an effects loop gives the option of using these units an driving them with the best signal levels and at the right impedance. In many ways using the effects loop on your amp can actually improve reliability. I run a Bass Pod XT Pro from the effects loop of my amp. Both units are rack mounted and permanently wired up with short good quality cables (from OBBM). No mess no fuss. Because these cables aren't trailing all over the stage they are extremely unlikely to get damaged and fail. The whole rig takes less than 5 minutes to set up from arriving in the stage area. Edited July 16, 2013 by BigRedX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Also, if your guitarist is using a valve amp to overdrive the signal then putting the delay effect in the loop will sound different to putting it in front of the preamp. Well, slightly different anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njr911 Posted July 16, 2013 Author Share Posted July 16, 2013 So I have a couple of overdrives, tuner, phaser, and a DI out. All on a pedle board Are these best in the effects loop of the Ashdown (soon to be range bass terror) or is in the chan ok ? Best to try them in both I guess and see if you can hear a difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 [quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1373963169' post='2143536'] Also, if your guitarist is using a valve amp to overdrive the signal then putting the delay effect in the loop will sound different to putting it in front of the preamp. Well, slightly different anyway... [/quote] IMO it sounds completely different. Delay before valve overdrive just turns into a horrible sonic mush. Delay after valve overdrive gives you a controllable effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 [quote name='njr911' timestamp='1373965891' post='2143575'] So I have a couple of overdrives, tuner, phaser, and a DI out. All on a pedle board Are these best in the effects loop of the Ashdown (soon to be range bass terror) or is in the chan ok ? Best to try them in both I guess and see if you can hear a difference [/quote] Have you got EQ on the DI? Do you already have a preferred order for these effects? Does the Ashdown have a valve pre-amp or any kind of drive circuit built in? IME normally I'd put all of these between the bass and the amp, but if the amp has valves I'd experiment with trying the phaser in the effects loop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njr911 Posted July 16, 2013 Author Share Posted July 16, 2013 Ashdown is solid state. Not using the EQ on the DI box at the moment. Guess they will be ok in the chain until I get a valve pre amp on the OBT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 In that case I'd stick all the pedals between the bass and the amp. However if you run the phaser after the distortions then experiment with it in the the effects loop to see if it makes a difference. Personally I'd run the DI (what make and model is it?) from a post EQ line out on the amp - if it has one - so it's not in the main signal path at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njr911 Posted July 16, 2013 Author Share Posted July 16, 2013 It's the Beringer BDI21 one. I got it mainly as a gain pedal but it doesnt give enough breakup on the Ashdown so I only have it as an emergency DI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 If it's not contributing anything to the sound of the bass and is only there other than to supply a DI feed to the PA don't have it in the main signal path. Run it from a post EQ line out on the amp instead. Doesn't your amp already have a DI out? If the front end of your amp doesn't have any valves then a gain pedal won't really do anything other than make the signal louder. They work properly with valves because they drive the valves harder and therefore giving you more nice sounding valve distortion, but the sound of transistors being driven hard isn't anywhere near as nice. It might be worth trying again with the OBT, but don't use it as a DI because then the signal to the PA won't benefit from any of that nice valve tone from the amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njr911 Posted July 16, 2013 Author Share Posted July 16, 2013 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1373975352' post='2143703'] If it's not contributing anything to the sound of the bass and is only there other than to supply a DI feed to the PA don't have it in the main signal path. Run it from a post EQ line out on the amp instead. Doesn't your amp already have a DI out? If the front end of your amp doesn't have any valves then a gain pedal won't really do anything other than make the signal louder. They work properly with valves because they drive the valves harder and therefore giving you more nice sounding valve distortion, but the sound of transistors being driven hard isn't anywhere near as nice. It might be worth trying again with the OBT, but don't use it as a DI because then the signal to the PA won't benefit from any of that nice valve tone from the amp. [/quote] It's at teh end of the path just incase the amp goes down. I can tehn DI to the PA and still use my effects (in theory, never had to try in anger luckly) Thanks for all your advice btw! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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