So what is 'tone' actually made of?

[Happy Jack]

The answer is "lavender".

Or maybe "pale green".

Depends really ...

[iceonaboy]

Tone is made of an amalgomation of tonelets and noisers. The tonelets get excited by the noisers and propogate which gives you a treblier sound. If you turn your knob the other way this phenomenon is repeated, but another participant , the oompher is added, which gives a bassy sound

[the boy]

[quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1374015098' post='2144369']
Any one else just plug in then turn knobs til it sounds good?!
[/quote]
Absolutely, this is what it's all about.

90% of tone etc is all bollix. So is all the talk and spew that comes out of people's mouths trying to describe what they are hoping to achieve. This is the nerd element of this game and something I have in the past exhausted my self with until I realised that you will only ever achieve good tone when you stop caring. Perfect tone is a myth and a scam generated by people trying to sell us gear and gives us gas.

Oh yeah another thing I've learned over the years is that the key to good tone is having volume to spare.

[operative451]

[quote name='iceonaboy' timestamp='1374055319' post='2144666']
Tone is made of an amalgomation of tonelets and noisers. The tonelets get excited by the noisers and propogate which gives you a treblier sound. If you turn your knob the other way this phenomenon is repeated, but another participant , the oompher is added, which gives a bassy sound
[/quote]

Oddly, that makes complete sense!

[xilddx]

[quote name='the boy' timestamp='1374058657' post='2144729']
Absolutely, this is what it's all about.

90% of tone etc is all bollix. So is all the talk and spew that comes out of people's mouths trying to describe what they are hoping to achieve. This is the nerd element of this game and something I have in the past exhausted my self with until I realised that you will only ever achieve good tone when you stop caring. Perfect tone is a myth and a scam generated by people trying to sell us gear and gives us gas.

Oh yeah another thing I've learned over the years is that the key to good tone is having volume to spare.
[/quote]

Part truth, part bollocks. Most of the bassists we talk about worked hard and evolved their tones and sounds. It's really important that your band sounds the best it can and projects a sonic attitude, unless you don't care if you sound like Bill sh*tt*r & The Shittones down the Twat & Cabbage on Tuesday night before the meat raffle.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1374060321' post='2144773']
Part truth, part bollocks. Most of the bassists we talk about worked hard and evolved their tones and sounds. It's really important that your band sounds the best it can and projects a sonic attitude, unless you don't care if you sound like Bill sh*tt*r & The Shittones down the Twat & Cabbage on Tuesday night before the meat raffle.
[/quote]
A tad harsh, Nigel, imo...

'...It's really important...' Really important to whom..? To the player..? Why not. To his/her band mates..? Often; not always. To the audience..? Maybe, to some; certainly far from the majority, methinks. This is not a slur on them, or anyone, merely my personal opinion and experience. Some folks care about wholemeal bread, others just eat sarnies and know not what they're eating. To each his own..?
'...unless you don't care if you sound like...' Surely this is not the only alternative..? Too binary for me, I'm afraid. Not being a tone geek, to me, does not automatically make all sounds emitted bad (or worse...). You plug in, turn on and play and 'Lo..!' the sound is good..! Out of the box..! Miracle..! If one is not interested in spending any more time than that on the subject, and the result is amply adequate for the occasion, I wouldn't call that a bad result. As for it being the 'local': it could well be adequate for the Royal Albert Hall, too.
I'm not suggesting that one should not try to improve any or all aspects of one's playing, but to denigrate in the manner posted seems, to me, to be somewhat exaggerated.
No malice intended; respect.

[Lowender]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1374054530' post='2144649']


Frequencies are frequencies. I'm specifically referring to the complete harmonic spectrum of a sound. When you play a note on the bass guitar you don't hear a single frequency, you hear dozens all piled up on top of each other.



Yes, because the[b] time-varying harmonic (frequency) spectrum of the instruments is different. [/b]



In terms of sound produced all that wood and electronics and shape of bass do is to alter the variation of the harmonic spectrum. This is how modelling amps and guitars work. Its not semantics, its basic physics.
[/quote]

Way to state the obvious yet still make it sound imperious.

[the boy]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1374060321' post='2144773']


Part truth, part bollocks. Most of the bassists we talk about worked hard and evolved their tones and sounds. It's really important that your band sounds the best it can and projects a sonic attitude, unless you don't care if you sound like Bill sh*tt*r & The Shittones down the Twat & Cabbage on Tuesday night before the meat raffle.
[/quote]
"A sonic attitude" now you see that's exactly the kind of bollix I'm going on about. What does that even mean. A band may have a signature sound ie "he has always used chorus" or "she has always gone for overdrive". Details like that I find acceptable however the rest if it is a mixture of OCD and vanity. I normally rely on you old boy for sane rationality however it would seem that the blood sucking bastards have sank their fangs into you too, and alas I have lost a true ally to this mad world of "low end" and "sonic attitude". I guess it won't be long before they come for me. Resistance will be futile but I won't let the bastards take me without a fight. What's that noise? I think I hear them on the stairs now, quick where is my corkscrew? I would rather gouge out my eardrums than be tones whore.........

Hello? Hello? No this is not "the boys" apartment. He lives next door but I think he's out. What are you doing? I've told you I am not he!! Stop this at once!! Ooohhhh? Stoppit! Now cut it out, seriously you guys this isn't cool!!!!! Oh actually, show me that one again. Oh right? So what you're saying is, if I flick the modulator while stepping on the flange drive assuming off course I'm using your pickups and your amp and his pedal....... I should get the sound in my head......... Oh my god that's amazing. Let me get my credit card. Can I get you guys a drink? You must be really thirsty after kicking my door down............... No, I'm out of Cinzano but I've got some west coast cooler.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1374061379' post='2144796']
A tad harsh, Nigel, imo...

'...It's really important...' Really important to whom..? To the player..? Why not. To his/her band mates..? Often; not always. To the audience..? Maybe, to some; certainly far from the majority, methinks. This is not a slur on them, or anyone, merely my personal opinion and experience. Some folks care about wholemeal bread, others just eat sarnies and know not what they're eating. To each his own..?
'...unless you don't care if you sound like...' Surely this is not the only alternative..? Too binary for me, I'm afraid. Not being a tone geek, to me, does not automatically make all sounds emitted bad (or worse...). You plug in, turn on and play and 'Lo..!' the sound is good..! Out of the box..! Miracle..! If one is not interested in spending any more time than that on the subject, and the result is amply adequate for the occasion, I wouldn't call that a bad result. As for it being the 'local': it could well be adequate for the Royal Albert Hall, too.
I'm not suggesting that one should not try to improve any or all aspects of one's playing, but to denigrate in the manner posted seems, to me, to be somewhat exaggerated.
No malice intended; respect.
[/quote]

Good points. We play in [u]bands[/u] don't we and people come to hear a [u]band[/u] don't they? Who goes to a band to listen to the tone of the bassplayer - apart from other bassplayers perhaps!

I've seen bands (without a desk) set themselves up by each spending ages fiddling with their amp and pedal settings until they are all individually happy and then start playing without any reference to the overall mix for the audience. I guess they sound good to themselves on stage but the results can be crap for the audience.

[the boy]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1374067774' post='2144912']


Good points. We play in [u]bands[/u] don't we and people come to hear a [u]band[/u] don't they? Who goes to a band to listen to the tone of the bassplayer - apart from other bassplayers perhaps!

I've seen bands (without a desk) set themselves up by each spending ages fiddling with their amp and pedal settings until they are all individually happy and then start playing without any reference to the overall mix for the audience. I guess they sound good to themselves on stage but the results can be crap for the audience.
[/quote]
Bravo!!!!!

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1374047621' post='2144500']
On an amp with a passive tone stack "flat" is with the tone controls on maximum.
[/quote]

That isn't true. The passive James stack is flat in the middle, the Fender type one that's on most valve amps is flatish with the mid on full and the bass and treble right down.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1374061379' post='2144796']
A tad harsh, Nigel, imo...

'...It's really important...' Really important to whom..? To the player..? Why not. To his/her band mates..? Often; not always. To the audience..? Maybe, to some; certainly far from the majority, methinks. This is not a slur on them, or anyone, merely my personal opinion and experience. Some folks care about wholemeal bread, others just eat sarnies and know not what they're eating. To each his own..?
'...unless you don't care if you sound like...' Surely this is not the only alternative..? Too binary for me, I'm afraid. Not being a tone geek, to me, does not automatically make all sounds emitted bad (or worse...). You plug in, turn on and play and 'Lo..!' the sound is good..! Out of the box..! Miracle..! If one is not interested in spending any more time than that on the subject, and the result is amply adequate for the occasion, I wouldn't call that a bad result. As for it being the 'local': it could well be adequate for the Royal Albert Hall, too.
I'm not suggesting that one should not try to improve any or all aspects of one's playing, but to denigrate in the manner posted seems, to me, to be somewhat exaggerated.
No malice intended; respect.
[/quote]
[quote name='the boy' timestamp='1374063522' post='2144833']
"A sonic attitude" now you see that's exactly the kind of bollix I'm going on about. What does that even mean. A band may have a signature sound ie "he has always used chorus" or "she has always gone for overdrive". Details like that I find acceptable however the rest if it is a mixture of OCD and vanity. I normally rely on you old boy for sane rationality however it would seem that the blood sucking bastards have sank their fangs into you too, and alas I have lost a true ally to this mad world of "low end" and "sonic attitude". I guess it won't be long before they come for me. Resistance will be futile but I won't let the bastards take me without a fight. What's that noise? I think I hear them on the stairs now, quick where is my corkscrew? I would rather gouge out my eardrums than be tones whore.........

Hello? Hello? No this is not "the boys" apartment. He lives next door but I think he's out. What are you doing? I've told you I am not he!! Stop this at once!! Ooohhhh? Stoppit! Now cut it out, seriously you guys this isn't cool!!!!! Oh actually, show me that one again. Oh right? So what you're saying is, if I flick the modulator while stepping on the flange drive assuming off course I'm using your pickups and your amp and his pedal....... I should get the sound in my head......... Oh my god that's amazing. Let me get my credit card. Can I get you guys a drink? You must be really thirsty after kicking my door down............... No, I'm out of Cinzano but I've got some west coast cooler.
[/quote]
[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1374067774' post='2144912']
Good points. We play in [u]bands[/u] don't we and people come to hear a [u]band[/u] don't they? Who goes to a band to listen to the tone of the bassplayer - apart from other bassplayers perhaps!

I've seen bands (without a desk) set themselves up by each spending ages fiddling with their amp and pedal settings until they are all individually happy and then start playing without any reference to the overall mix for the audience. I guess they sound good to themselves on stage but the results can be crap for the audience.
[/quote]
[quote name='the boy' timestamp='1374068288' post='2144924']
Bravo!!!!!
[/quote]

What I mean is, you should try to ensure your tone/s fit the band's music, that they complement the band, and if you so wish you can build your personality into them as well. All the band members need good sounds and they all need to work together, in the studio and on the stage. Why this is so hard to understand is beyond me. If you don't care about your tone, that's fair enough, but don't be preaching that mantra to others, that they're mugs for caring.

[the boy]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1374070111' post='2144960']





What I mean is, you should try to ensure your tone/s fit the band's music, that they complement the band, and if you so wish you can build your personality into them as well. All the band members need good sounds and they all need to work together, in the studio and on the stage. Why this is so hard to understand is beyond me. If you don't care about your tone, that's fair enough, but don't be preaching that mantra to others, that they're mugs for caring.
[/quote]
You see, that's much nicer. You can be nice when you try. Noones calling you a mug. Stay with me a while. Do you mind if I sit beside you? Aaaaahhhhhh that's nice. You are really such a nice boy. I wasn't cross with you earlier, really I wasn't. You mustn't ever think that, but I must say I didn't like your "TONE".

[xilddx]

[quote name='the boy' timestamp='1374071840' post='2144979']
You see, that's much nicer. You can be nice when you try. Noones calling you a mug. Stay with me a while. Do you mind if I sit beside you? Aaaaahhhhhh that's nice. You are really such a nice boy. I wasn't cross with you earlier, really I wasn't. You mustn't ever think that, but I must say I didn't like your "TONE".
[/quote]

Eewww! Creepy bastard.

[the boy]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1374072243' post='2144982']


Eewww! Creepy bastard.


[/quote]

[BassTractor]

This thread is Beauty and Beast in one!
Not that we don't condone it - it's all good - but I do believe it's about time someone mentioned that:
If you have frequencies in your body, there's loads of alternative medicine treaters that can do away with them, or at least treat them. I'm not joking either: the whole alternative scene seems to be dealing in frequencies these days. Me, I just tell them to stay well away from MY frequencies.

That important note aside, and I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but:


Extremely inportant for the timbre of a tone are the time related changes in harmonic and non-harmonic content during the very first few milli- or centi-seconds of the tone.
In other words: remove the attack from a tone, and the listener will have a hard time recognising the instrument.
(Side note: this awareness was used in, and is what lifted the 80s Roland D-50 synthesizer well above its price range and above its terrible, terrible simplicity.)


Just thought it might be good to mention it. Sorry if it was brought up earlier.


best,
bert

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1374054843' post='2144655']
The answer is "lavender".

Or maybe "pale green".

Depends really ...


[/quote]

[Lord Sausage]

[quote name='the boy' timestamp='1374058657' post='2144729']
Absolutely, this is what it's all about.

90% of tone etc is all bollix. So is all the talk and spew that comes out of people's mouths trying to describe what they are hoping to achieve. This is the nerd element of this game and something I have in the past exhausted my self with until I realised that you will only ever achieve good tone when you stop caring. Perfect tone is a myth and a scam generated by people trying to sell us gear and gives us gas.

Oh yeah another thing I've learned over the years is that the key to good tone is having volume to spare.
[/quote]
I can appreciate! i want to have a good sound that fits with the band but i don't need one tone to do it. It's Tone de Jour as far as I'm concerned. Dependant on the room, the life in my strings and what the guitar player. I just plug in and fiddle for a bit til it's reet, i thin i usually have a good sound that fits with what i'm doing but couldn't for the life of me explain it.