PA Minefield ?

[flyfisher]

[quote name='barkin' timestamp='1374590442' post='2150584']
Nope.

Bluearan do various top hats and adaptors, in different lengths & diameters.
[/quote]

Thanks for that, but I've just checked sizes and the stands I tried to use seem to be 40mm instead of the 'standard' 35mm for PA speaker top hats.

The stands in question are usually used with a lighting bar for some LED parcans, so perhaps lighting gear uses 40mm as a standard?

Hmm. I don't have my usual speaker stands to hand, but I'm now thinking they'll probably fit the Wharfdales as well as the Mackies.

[tauzero]

I bought a pair of B-stock SRM450 V2s for £325 (there's still some going for a little more money on That Ebay, search for SRM450 B-stock). I use them with a small but perfectly formed Behringer Xenyx 1002B mixer (very small footprint but still has slider faders) for vocals. Still looking for decent (and cheap) monitors, currently using a pair of cheapo QTX PAJ-10As.

Avoid Behringer powered mixers - the power supplies are made of fragilium. However, if you want a bombproof power amp, the discontinued Behringer EP2500 is good (but heavy).

[njr911]

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1374616538' post='2151062']
I bought a pair of B-stock SRM450 V2s for £325 [/quote]

You mean £325 each ?

[ben604]

My brother bought some Behringer active cabs, one failed within a month, so I'd be wary if you're pushing them hard, might be worth looking at RCF or Mackie as suggested above.

Saying that, I've got a Behringer B205d which I use on my mic stand as a monitor and it's excellent, so that may be a foldback option for you, they're only £120 each.

I'd get a sub too, if you can stretch. We got a 15" Active Mackie SW1501 for £250 and it's ace. It'll really make a difference to your sound to get the kick running through the PA.

[njr911]

Damn! Ordered a pair of Behringer b grade 15's yesterday but they are sold out.

I'm thinking passive as it will work with our current head untill we can get the money for a powered mixer.

So should I go 8ohm speakers so i can add a sub later ?

Can you use powered monitors on a powered mixer ?

[Ian Savage]

[quote name='njr911' timestamp='1374672297' post='2151612']
Damn! Ordered a pair of Behringer b grade 15's yesterday but they are sold out.

I'm thinking passive as it will work with our current head untill we can get the money for a powered mixer.

So should I go 8ohm speakers so i can add a sub later ?

Can you use powered monitors on a powered mixer ?
[/quote]

Right, my 2p-worth - as everyone's switching to lightweight power amps these days, there's some proper bargains to be had if you don't mind lugging a bit of weight. I'd be going for a 600W+ US-made Peavey or UK-made Studiomaster amp, personally - with 8-ohm 'tops' (12"ers will be fine if it's just for vocals) you'd be pulling at least 200W into each speaker, which should be a massive improvement on what you have at the moment.

HOWEVER, if you're seriously looking at adding a sub at a later date, my personal preference would be a more powerful amp (say, 800W minimum), so that when you get your sub if you make it a four-ohm job (a single well-placed sub is often more effective than a spaced pair, for reasons I shan't go into here) you can run your tops from one side of the amp and the sub from the other, with an active crossover unit between amp and desk. This will ensure that you can pull full power from a single amp, and still have 'proper' separation of the frequencies between sub and tops.

Another benefit of this is that you can just run a cheap-and-cheerful little mixer (Behringer would fit the bill nicely here) with enough mic inputs for your vocals, then as and when you add a sub and start micing more stuff up you can upgrade your desk as required (and have the option of putting a tidy little rack together, with desk, crossover and amp all in one place).

For passive speakers, Peavey again are worth looking at (EuroSys/HiSys go pretty cheap these days), as are EV (pricier, but worth it), JBL (if you're VERY careful not to drive them too hard or let them feed back too much, they tend to have fragile horns) and Studiomaster again - avoid Skytec / Phonic and their ilk, usually under-specced tat.

I reckon with some judicious eBaying you'd get a very useable and (equally importantly) upgradable mixer/amp/speakers setup for less than £300, leaving you some spare wedge (pardon the pun) for monitors. To answer your last question, yes, you can use powered/active monitors with a powered head, as long as the head has some kind of aux send or at the very least a 'slave out'. With a 'proper' mixing desk you're almost guaranteed to have a proper pre-fader aux send as well though, means you can get a different on-stage mix to what the punters hear should you desire - another advantage of the 'separates' approach.

Phew, I ramble - I'll be back in a bit if you need anything explaining further

Edited July 24, 2013 by Ian Savage

[njr911]

very useful thanks.

So if we were to add a sub ata later date would 12"ers still be ok for putting the kick drum/bass through ?

[Ian Savage]

Well, they joy of doing it the way I've outlined above is that you can insert an active crossover between the desk and the amps. If you set a frequency (say, 80-100Hz or thereabouts) below which the signal goes to the sub and above which it goes to the tops, you keep the bass and kick out of your tops and the vocals etc out of your subs. Works a lot better and more efficiently than just relying on the passive crossovers which most subs have built-in.

[njr911]

so that's a yes. I'll get some behringer 12" for less than £100 a pop. They'll work for next weeks gig with our old PA head and can save for the rest of the gear.

Cheers!

[JTUK]

Buy well, buy once.

There are a LOT of horn failures on kit and you'll probably not have to go far to hear a pub band with a blown horn in their P.A which they don't/haven't noticed
JBL had a rep for this not so long ago as did HK surpisingly enough altho I wouldn't generally warn anyone off that gear.

PV are robust but then lower powered P.A can often get a beating as people drive it hard.
You will need very decent tops to put anything meaningful thru them aprt from vox without a big downgrade so I'd say don't try.

I'd avoid the lower end price point as you'll more than likely end up going thru the same exercise 6 months to a year later
as either the quality isn't there in the first place or you'll break something.

The Behringer monitors are decent enough for vox close up ( Mackie clones ,,? ) but I wouldn't have any of that sort of kit not on warranty...or BOG cheap and to get you out of a hole.

Phonix parts ends up in alot of stuff... PV, LD, Behringer..????

The point about weight in amps is good... you can get C audio cheap...but it is heavy.

Edited July 24, 2013 by JTUK

[flyfisher]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1374699032' post='2152183']
Buy well, buy once.
[/quote]

Indeed - the old John Ruskin principle:

[i]“There is hardly anything in the world that someone cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price alone are that person’s lawful prey. It’s unwise to pay too much, but it’s worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money — that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot — it can’t be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”[/i]