Bilbo Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Worth a watch if you are interested in Partch and his use of atonal instruments, this is a documentary on the making of Hal Wiliner's Mingus tribute album Weird N[size=4]ightmare.[/size] [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8b6KdnnM8Y&list=RD38sSuHTI7iKls"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8b6KdnnM8Y&list=RD38sSuHTI7iKls[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ras52 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 [quote name='dlloyd' timestamp='1374847194' post='2154019'] Father Charles Goes Down And Ends Battle [/quote] In my day it was "Father Charles goes down and eats bacon". I don't remember a mnemonic (!) for the flats, I think I just had "BEADG" learned by rote (at that stage of learning we didn't need to know about C flat and F flat). But when I saw "ends battle" I had to rack my brain to remember how I learnt it... once the circles of fifths and fourths are absorbed it becomes second nature and the mnemonics can be discarded. And then there's Every Good Boy Deserves Favour (or Fruit), and Good Boys Deserve Fruit (or Favour) Always... Have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I think the OP has a point. I am personally disgusted that I can't write a book without learning a language. It's just an excuse to oppress me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlloyd Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 [quote name='ras52' timestamp='1375197731' post='2158003'] In my day it was "Father Charles goes down and eats bacon". I don't remember a mnemonic (!) for the flats, I think I just had "BEADG" learned by rote (at that stage of learning we didn't need to know about C flat and F flat). But when I saw "ends battle" I had to rack my brain to remember how I learnt it... once the circles of fifths and fourths are absorbed it becomes second nature and the mnemonics can be discarded. And then there's Every Good Boy Deserves Favour (or Fruit), and Good Boys Deserve Fruit (or Favour) Always... Have fun! [/quote] All cows eat grass... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlloyd Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 [quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1375196688' post='2157986'] Worth a watch if you are interested in Partch and his use of atonal instruments, this is a documentary on the making of Hal Wiliner's Mingus tribute album Weird Nightmare. [/quote] Nice one... will watch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ras52 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 [quote name='dlloyd' timestamp='1375198354' post='2158011'] All cows eat grass... [/quote] Oh no they don't! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle_feeding Which makes me wonder whether Father Charles lied on his CV about the bacon-eating (or battle-ending). Or if that's even his real name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliasMooseblaster Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 [quote name='iconic' timestamp='1375012026' post='2155670'] ...a few things seems to going decimal, money, measurement and we only really have twelve notes at the moment a sort of imperial system if you want... and that is a fudge of sorts (equal temperment) I wonder what a 10 note system [i][b]would[/b][/i] sound like....I'll google that, someone must have done a video for that [/quote] I thought Holly already managed this in [i]Red Dwarf -[/i] a system of ten-note scales ([i]Do Re Mi Fa Sol La Ti Wo To Do[/i]), with the unfortunate consequences of "pianos the width of zebra crossings, and women banned from playing the cello." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 [quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1374949803' post='2155194'] Not really, just get rid of the black keys and have 11 white ones per octave [/quote] You're missing that seven white keys and five black keys is already the simplified version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cK4REjqGc9w Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Wow! Not seen one of them before! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 [quote name='iconic' timestamp='1374858729' post='2154194'] many thanks for the that I learnt this method first of all though, the erm, err, quick 'n dirty method I call it: [b]sharps....half step above the last sharp is the key signature flats........second to last flat is the key signature[/b] many thanks guys, you took some time out to explain that, grateful [/quote] I like this not sure how to work out the key from one flat but its still good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ras52 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1375203544' post='2158121'] I like this not sure how to work out the key from one flat but its still good. [/quote] There's no F-ing way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic Posted July 31, 2013 Author Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) [quote name='ras52' timestamp='1375213551' post='2158369'] There's no F-ing way! [/quote] beat me to it and stole my ffing thunder! Edited July 31, 2013 by iconic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic Posted July 31, 2013 Author Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) [quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1375198072' post='2158007'] I think the OP has a point. I am personally disgusted that I can't write a book without learning a language. It's just an excuse to oppress me. [/quote] Yes? I wrote a 'how to operate your FTIR gas analyzer' guide....i promise you that i didn't fully understand the engineering software langauge behind it though...so it is possible and had guys operating that mother whom couldn't cross the road and chew gum as we used to say......so there is hope. Edited July 31, 2013 by iconic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirky Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 The method I used is based on simple recurring patterns. For sharps (and major keys): C major has no sharps or flats. The fifth note in the scale is G... G major has one sharp - the new sharp is the 7th note in the scale (F#). The fifth note in the scale is D... D major has 2 sharps - the new sharp is the 7th note in the scale (C#). The fifth note in the scale is A... A major has 3 sharps - the new sharp is the 7th note in the scale (G#). The fifth note in the scale is A...etc etc So when you look at a key signature with sharps, to find the key just look at the last sharp in the key signature (which will always be the 7th note in the scale) and go up a semitone - hence the key signature with the last sharp as A# is B major. For flats and major keys: C major has no sharps or flats. The fourth note in the scale is F... F major has one flat - the new flat is the 4th note in the scale (Bb). The fourth note in the scale is Bb... Bb major has two flats - the new flat is the 4th note in the scale (Eb). The fourth note in the scale is Eb... Eb major has three flat - the new flat is the 4th note in the scale (Ab). The fourth note in the scale is Ab... etc etc So to work out the key for a key signature with flats, look at the last flat and go down a 4th. Not quite as straightforward as sharps but still pretty easy. For minor keys, the same pattern works but start on a different note: Sharps (minor keys): A minor has no sharps or flats. The fifth note in the scale is E - E minor has one sharp, which is the second note in the scale (F#). The fifth note in E minor scale is B - B minor has 2 sharps, the new sharp being the second note in the scale (C#). etc etc Flats (minor keys): A minor has no sharps or flats. The fourth note in the scale is D - D minor has one flat, which is the 6th note in the scale (Bb). The fourth note in the D minor scale is G - G minor has two flats, the new flat being the 6th note in the scale (Eb), etc etc You can also just go down a minor third from the major key, but that isn't always so easy to see (on a keyboard, at least). To work out whether the piece of music you're looking at is major or minor, you need to look for clues - the main clue is looking for the accidental that represents the raised 7th in the minor key associated with the key signature - for example if the key signature has two sharps (F#, C#) it will be in either D major or B minor. If there are lots of A# accidentals, its likely to be in B minor. Other clues are the chords (or notes) used to start and end the piece. I find that once you've got your head around the patterns/rules above, dealing with keys is easy. The hardest part of sight reading (I find with my piano pupils) is in reading rhythm/timing, especially dotted notes. Hope that's useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 [quote name='iconic' timestamp='1375251371' post='2158746'] Yes? I wrote a 'how to operate your FTIR gas analyzer' guide....i promise you that i didn't fully understand the engineering software langauge behind it though...so it is possible and had guys operating that mother whom couldn't cross the road and chew gum as we used to say......so there is hope. [/quote] Sarcasm squire! Sarcasm! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic Posted July 31, 2013 Author Share Posted July 31, 2013 [i]"To work out whether the piece of music you're looking at is major or minor, you need to look for clues - the main clue is looking for the accidental that represents the raised 7th in the minor key associated with the key signature - for example if the key signature has two sharps (F#, C#) it will be in either D major or B minor. If there are lots of A# accidentals, its likely to be in B minor. Other clues are the chords (or notes) used to start and end the piece."[/i] ......this bit here (well above ), would it be fair to say that if the key was the relative minor, there would have a disportionate of 3rd's in the tune too....as it's the 3rd that identifies if it's minor or major key? just a thought? again many thanks for all have taken time and effort out to help me clarify things.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic Posted July 31, 2013 Author Share Posted July 31, 2013 [quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1375261856' post='2158879'] Sarcasm squire! Sarcasm! [/quote] should that be 'Squier' in basschat thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirky Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 [quote name='iconic' timestamp='1375262210' post='2158887'] [i]"To work out whether the piece of music you're looking at is major or minor, you need to look for clues - the main clue is looking for the accidental that represents the raised 7th in the minor key associated with the key signature - for example if the key signature has two sharps (F#, C#) it will be in either D major or B minor. If there are lots of A# accidentals, its likely to be in B minor. Other clues are the chords (or notes) used to start and end the piece."[/i] ......this bit here (well above ), would it be fair to say that if the key was the relative minor, there would have a disportionate of 3rd's in the tune too....as it's the 3rd that identifies if it's minor or major key? just a thought? again many thanks for all have taken time and effort out to help me clarify things.... [/quote] Well, say we're in D major or B minor. The third in D major is F#, which is also the 5th in B minor. F# is probably going to appear a lot in both keys, so its not something I would use to differentiate. Or the 3rd in B minor (D) is also the tonic in D Major...not going to be very useful. The raised 7th accidental is your best clue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ras52 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Kirky' timestamp='1375262971' post='2158900'] The raised 7th accidental is your best clue. [/quote] That's good when you have the whole score (as in a piano piece) but as we all know bass players just play roots and fifths So identifying the tonic (home) may be a better bet: one sharp and the bass keeps returning to G suggests G major, one sharp and the bass keeps returning to E suggests E minor. *edited for basic stupidity* Edited July 31, 2013 by ras52 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirky Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Good point ras52. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic Posted July 31, 2013 Author Share Posted July 31, 2013 [i] [/i] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 [quote name='ras52' timestamp='1375213551' post='2158369'] There's no F-ing way! [/quote] Aha only just caught up with this thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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