New to pedals

[Jobiebass]

Afternoon,
Ready for the noob question of the century?
I have a zoom b2.1u and had it for a while, I dont wanna get rid of it but I feel I need something more. I think.

With the zoom I just use 2 presets, c2 for destortion and c4 for everything else. forgot what c4 was, something like a stringray effect, although I have a stringray.

I really have no clue where to start with pedals, I want to be able to flick from 1 to the other effortlessly, so it looks like I need more.

This is where the noob question comes in.

Is there a guide to effects anywhere? explaining what each effect does to the sound. Wah, destortion and a few others are self explained but the magority arnt as easy unless explained.
I have an octive thing on my amp, which im still confused about as I dont hear much diffrence.
an EQ pedal.. to me EQ is the Bass Mid Trebble. but I have that on my amp and bass so id guess that its just for mid song changes to eq?
Looking to get some pedals and just use the zoom as a volume and or expression pedal for the distortion, and also for tuning.
Hard to explain what I want because I dont know what I want, so feel free to mock and poke fun at the effect noob while saying lots of jargon I wont understand.

Regards
Confuzzed Noobz aka Chris

[BOD2]

Start here [url="http://www.rolandus.com/products/subcategories.aspx?ParentId=13"]Roland Boss FX[/url]

Have a look through their "Compact Pedal" range. You'll get an idea of what's out there and a clue as to what they do.

Then have a look here [url="http://behringer.com/02_products/group_index.cfm?mid=2&ID=600&lang=ENG#STOMP%20BOXES"]Behringer.com[/url]

Have a look through their "Stomp Box" range (and note the similarities, lol)

Don't believe everything you read at either site, but use that information to ask some more specific questions or investigate further. Behringer stomp boxes are very cheap to buy. Some question their longevity but they do offer a cheap way to try things out.

Finally - remember there are loads of other brands out there e.g.

[url="http://www.digitech.com/bass.php"]Digitech[/url]
[url="http://www.ehx.com/2008/"]Electroharmonix[/url]

[cheddatom]

I think you don't really need any more pedals. You need to read the manual for your B2.1U!! If you had it set right, you would have a load of patches set up instead of the individual pedals you want, and then you could make it easy to switch between patches.

I would:

Wipe some patches clean on your Zoom.
patch one - Set up nothing but an octave effect
patch two - set up nothing but a phaser - play with the rate and depth of the phaser, as well as the mix function.
patch three - set up nothing but delay - play with the controls

save all of these patches individually, and then switch between them a bit.

Try adding your favorite amp model, or your favorite distortion setting to all of these patches.

If you don't know how to do any of these things, read the manual. If you've lost it, download it. If you can't find the Zoom site, use google. etc


I learned (almost) everything I know about effects and pedals from using my zoom GFX707, and now I am confident knowing exactly what sounds I want and exactly how to create them.

[dannybuoy]

[url="http://www.harmony-central.com/Effects/effects-explained.html"]http://www.harmony-central.com/Effects/eff...-explained.html[/url]

[thisnameistaken]

I think your earlier respondents already covered everything else:

[quote name='Jobiebass' post='216293' date='Jun 10 2008, 04:34 PM']an EQ pedal.. to me EQ is the Bass Mid Trebble. but I have that on my amp and bass so id guess that its just for mid song changes to eq?[/quote]

Or for changing EQ between songs, maybe dependant on which pedals you've got enabled (perhaps more of a bassy tone when you switch on your octave effect, or more treble with your fuzz to get a raspier sound, etc.). I don't have one on my board but I can imagine they come in handy if you use more than one bass sound in your set.

[cheddatom]

Maybe another important point would be - know what you want your sound to be. Have a listen to some of your favorite sounding CDs and try to pick out the bass tone. Maybe there's a section where it gets really distorted, or maybe some chorus, or maybe there's loads more low end in the chorus section. Try to figure out what's going on with the bass tone, and try to figure out why they're doing that to the sound, and then you should be able to figure out what you need/want to do with yours.

[Jobiebass]

thank you all for your imput, looks like I have a lot of reading up to do.

thanks for all your imput, it helped quite a lot, gonna stick with the zoom and play about with it more first before deciding if I need more. Ive set my own presets up in the past so I guess its just a matter of moving them together so I have say Destortion, chorus, slap.

thanks guys.

[cheddatom]

A good way to work with just two footswitches, is to work in banks of 3, with the 2nd patch always the same. So, if you have a main sound (could just be clean), get that right, then copy this to every other patch on your zoom, and fill in the gaps with the other patches you create. This means that you should always be able to switch to and from your clean sound, and should mean that 90% of the time, you can set yourself up to switch to any sound. If I have two sounds that I need to switch between without going to clean first, I will program this, but that's specific to individual songs/players.

[Jobiebass]

Hummm.. Im liking the sound of the Roland GEB-7: Bass Equalizer. Be nice to have that boost without pressing the one on my amp... infact.. I wont have one on my new head I dont think. looked on the Behringer site at the BASS GRAPHIC EQUALIZER BEQ700, which looks the better option.

Also LMB-3: Bass Limiter/Enhancer
Been needing something like this for a while, going from fingerstyle to slap and back, the peaks playing slap are massive. Behringer site has BASS LIMITER ENHANCER BLE100, which looking at it also looks like the better option.

anyone have any opinions on these???

[Jobiebass]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='216895' date='Jun 11 2008, 02:29 PM']A good way to work with just two footswitches, is to work in banks of 3, with the 2nd patch always the same. So, if you have a main sound (could just be clean), get that right, then copy this to every other patch on your zoom, and fill in the gaps with the other patches you create. This means that you should always be able to switch to and from your clean sound, and should mean that 90% of the time, you can set yourself up to switch to any sound. If I have two sounds that I need to switch between without going to clean first, I will program this, but that's specific to individual songs/players.[/quote]

I tried that once, had 1: Destortion, 2: normal, 3: tinny/trebble so I could flick from 2-1-2-3 etc.

would you suggest playing more with the zoom or will I get more out of single pedals?

[cheddatom]

Well, you're on about a limiter and an EQ. You could try the limiter on the zoom. I like it! IMHO I would set up your zoom:

1. dist
2. clean
3. your clean patch with treble/slap sound/whatever
4. clean
5. your clean patch with phaser
6. clean
7. your dist patch with phaser
8. clean
9. your clean patch with digital delay

and so on....

If the limiter on the zoom is good enough for you, I would tend to apply this to EVERY patch. If it's not good enough, the boss pedal is great and would stay on all the time after your B2 if you so wished.

If you want an EQ pedal to boost, why not set up a boosting patch on the Zoom?

I'm only saying all this because I have gone through a rather expensive route of finding my sound, and I think most people can avoid this.

[Hamster]

I stumbled across this and found it to be a reasonable explaination if you're starting from scratch with effects. It's an e-book with a .pdf guide and .mp3 sound files of all the effects explained. It's written for guitarists, but the effects are basically the same.

[url="http://rs156.rapidshare.com/files/54299538/Getting_your_Sound.zip"]http://rs156.rapidshare.com/files/54299538..._your_Sound.zip[/url]

Hamster

[Jobiebass]

I have the limiter on full on the zoom. doesnt really do what I need from it. I play quite softly on my bass because when I attack hard I get fretbuzz (this is intentional) and when I slap its way way too loud. Im guessing the pedal will solve that? im not after a flat volume but if the slap can be as loud as the harder attack, it would be perfect.

I find with the zoom the noise of my fingers hitting the strings is way too loud, played with a pick for the first time in years the other day and (apart from realising I suck with a pick now) the noise of the pick on the strings was soooo loud. this just a traight with zoom or is there a way to get rid of that??

[cheddatom]

I wouldn't have the limiter "on full". Read the manual and play with the limiter as though it's a single pedal - you should be able to calm the spikes of your slapping without effecting your fingerstyle.

The noise of your fingers hitting the strings, pick, and slapping etc is just high frequencies. Maybe what you think is a dry patch actually has some top end boost in the EQ section? If not, why not EQ out some highs? There's nothing built into the Zoom that will make you always have a "clicky" sound.

[BOD2]

Are you saying that with the Zoom in between your bass and amp you find that finger noise and fret click is louder than with your bass plugged straight into the amp ?

If so then it can only be a setting on the Zoom that's doing that. "Compression" could do that, depending on how it has been configured. I'm not familiar with the Zoom so i don't know if it's likely that this would be switched on.

I'd be inclined to go back to basics with the Zoom and do as cheddatom suggests - create a good basic sound through the Zoom that has the minimum of FX switched on. Aim to keep all settings for this sound fairly flat - nothing too extreme. This would then become the basis for your "clean" sound. Get that right first then store this.

Once you have it stored, copy it to another patch. Now edit this new patch, adding the FX you want to the basic clean sound. Once you have something good save this.

Go back to the "clean" patch. Copy it to another (unused) patch. Now edit this new patch, adding the FX you want to the basic clean sound. Once you have something good save this.

And so on....


A "limiter" is used to prevent your signal from exceeding a preset level (loudness) If you play softly you might never reach that level, therefore the limiter will never trigger.

[Jobiebass]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='216950' date='Jun 11 2008, 03:21 PM']I wouldn't have the limiter "on full". Read the manual and play with the limiter as though it's a single pedal - you should be able to calm the spikes of your slapping without effecting your fingerstyle.

The noise of your fingers hitting the strings, pick, and slapping etc is just high frequencies. Maybe what you think is a dry patch actually has some top end boost in the EQ section? If not, why not EQ out some highs? There's nothing built into the Zoom that will make you always have a "clicky" sound.[/quote]

bahh I am a total noob. Im not thinking about the limiter, its the noise reduction thats on full (to get rid of the finger noise) which it doesnt.

Found a limiter on ebay for £14 posted. thought id treat myself. can always flog it on if its not what I want/need.

see this is where the noob bit comes in, I have dont really have a clue what a dry patch is. and top end boost I guess is frequencies around 10 kHz???
I really am very noob like with effects. you'll have to explain most things.

thanks for all your help though, ive learnt a lot today!!

[Jobiebass]

[quote name='BOD2' post='216957' date='Jun 11 2008, 03:26 PM']Are you saying that with the Zoom in between your bass and amp you find that finger noise and fret click is louder than with your bass plugged straight into the amp ?



A "limiter" is used to prevent your signal from exceeding a preset level (loudness) If you play softly you might never reach that level, therefore the limiter will never trigger.[/quote]

Yes, plugged straight into my amp I hardly get any finger noise.


I put my amp loud enough for the soft parts, but if then it kicks in for a bit of slap I have to turn it down with the foot pedal. Looks like I definatly need a limiter then.

[BOD2]

[quote name='Jobiebass' post='216962' date='Jun 11 2008, 03:33 PM']Yes, plugged straight into my amp I hardly get any finger noise.


I put my amp loud enough for the soft parts, but if then it kicks in for a bit of slap I have to turn it down with the foot pedal. Looks like I definatly need a limiter then. [/quote]

EQ or compression on the Zoom would amplify finger noise.

For the limiter you probably need to REDUCE the control on the limiter. That will adjust the threshold level for when the limiter triggers and limits your sound. Experiment at your normal slap volume and turn the limiter control down until you can hear it starting to effect your sound.

(a limiter is just like having a very fast sound engineer riding the volume control, turning it down when things get to loud then bringing back up when things get back to normal)

[Jobiebass]

Cool and the gang!

so with the limiter sorted, I just need to sort out the EQ, and your saying if I drop the high frequencies a little it should help, and I should be able to do this on the Zoom.

sweeeeet.

I love basschat, ive never met so many helpfull people in one place.

Getting the limiter in a few days, quick question, do I put this between bass and zoom, or between zoom and amp?

[cheddatom]

It depends. I would read a couple of the links people have put here to get you more aquainted with EQ and compression.

I would put the limiter between Zoom and amp.

On the Zoom, there are several different "modules" - drive, Eq, modulation, reverb ......(I forget them all)

To get a totally dry patch, you have to go through each module and turn it off. I would do this to a new patch, and see if your clickiness is still there after. Basically, with all of the effects modules set to off, you should have the same sound coming out of the amp as you do when there's no zoom in between. What about when you use the zoom's bypass (pressing both switches at the same time)?

[Jobiebass]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='216993' date='Jun 11 2008, 04:09 PM']It depends. I would read a couple of the links people have put here to get you more aquainted with EQ and compression.

I would put the limiter between Zoom and amp.

On the Zoom, there are several different "modules" - drive, Eq, modulation, reverb ......(I forget them all)

To get a totally dry patch, you have to go through each module and turn it off. I would do this to a new patch, and see if your clickiness is still there after. Basically, with all of the effects modules set to off, you should have the same sound coming out of the amp as you do when there's no zoom in between. What about when you use the zoom's bypass (pressing both switches at the same time)?[/quote]

ahh yeah, bypass=tuner yeah? cant say ive noticed if it stops or not. confident enough to say it doesnt though. But not as loud. But TBH im guessing you would need some type of setting to get rid of it totaly. Like what you suggested with the EQ.

I cant remember ever seeing where the EQ was in the settings, I only played about with it for a few weeks then stuck with the presets as there was 1-2 which were better then the 10-15 settings I got off other people that they made and the 1-2 I made. Ill have a look on the weekend.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='Jobiebass' post='216999' date='Jun 11 2008, 04:25 PM']ahh yeah, bypass=tuner yeah? cant say ive noticed if it stops or not. confident enough to say it doesnt though.[/quote]

Lol! Give it a real try. I would also turn off the noise reduction just in case, then put it in bypass. It shouldn't be any different to your standard clean tone. You shouldn't need to EQ it at all.

[Jobiebass]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='217020' date='Jun 11 2008, 04:47 PM']Lol! Give it a real try. I would also turn off the noise reduction just in case, then put it in bypass. It shouldn't be any different to your standard clean tone. You shouldn't need to EQ it at all.[/quote]

Ill give it a try, not gonna be home till the weekend though.

Thanks for all your help guys. Im sure ill have 1000 more questions by the weekend lol.

[BOD2]

Have you got the user manual ? If not you can download it here [url="http://www.samsontech.com/products/productpage.cfm?prodID=1856"]Samsontech.com[/url]

There's a Low EQ (LE) and High EQ (HE) setting on it.

The Limiter (LM) has got a "Level" adjustment. This adjusts the overall volume AFTER the limiter. If this is set high then this would increase the overall volume when playing through the Zoom.

The limiter has three settings - Threshold, Ratio, and Level, all go from 0 - 10. To set it up I'd initally set Threshold to 10, Ratio to 10 then adjust the Level until the volume is the same as the bypassed volume. Now bring the Threshold down and play hard. As the Threshold is lowered you should start to hear the volume being limited as you play hard - playing harder doesn't result in an increase in volume. Set the Threshold so that this only happens when you play hard and nothing happens when you play softly. Experiment with the Ratio so to see how this affects the limiting. Lower values should let some peaks through to a degree. Once you're happy, adjust the Level to maintan the overall volume.


Unless you're actually wanting to use a Zoom patch as a volume boost, I would recommend keeping the overall level similar to that when the Zoom is bypassed. Too much gain introduces extra noise (this might be the finger and pick noise you're getting).

So, when editing patches you'll find that some FX use the "knob number 3" as a "level" or "gain" setting. Try to adjust this to avoid massive jumps in volume. This also means if you choose to bypass the Zoom while playing you won't get a sudden drop in volume.

You'll find that all multi-FX units are a bit fiddly to program at first but once you get into the way they work they're usually fairly intuitive.

[cheddatom]

That's a very helpful post! Listen to Bod2!