fatback Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Have any of you taken grades in upright (or any other instrument for that matter) late on? Was it worth the effort? It occurred to me as a way of motivating myself for this bowing business. I'm slogging away, but with no prospect of ever needing to bow in the music I play it's in danger of seeming pointless. What do you think? A waste of time or an invaluable structure? A good excuse for going back to lessons? Thanks for ya thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Fakir Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Hi, As a matter of fact I have: like many bass players I started with classical guitar (self taught) about 40 years ago. I got to a pretty creditable standard on-and-off over the years, even though most of the opportunities to play have been on the bass. I taught myself to sight-read on bass about 30 years ago and if I chose (and had a complaisant enough wife) I could work every night. Anyway, I digress: about a year ago I finally got round to engaging a classical guitar teacher. He visits once a fortnight and we crank away at the various exercises. I took Grade 4 performance in April, Grade 5 theory in June and we are working towards Grade 5 performance this November. Has it made a difference? I think it has. The theory test has confirmed that I understand the basics of music theory (it's about the same as a GCSE apparently). The various exercises have definitely improved my control and timing on the classical guitar - and the vital thing is that the fingering exercises: you know, [i]i, m, a, p[/i] have made a real difference to my control when playing the bass pizzicato (which is what most bass playing turns out to be.) I would definitely recommend that you get a teacher for something technical like learning to use a bow. The other stuff will definitely help you in unexpected ways in my experience. Best of luck with it, anyway. OF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubassman Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Definitely worth doing. Bowing is a great way to sharpen intonation and the discipline of Grades will take your playing to areas that perhaps you wouldn't normally explore. Good luck with it ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MandShef Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 The advantage of grades is that they give you a means of measuring progress, plus they add some structure to your practice. The downside is putting yourself through the nerves of an exam, and the expense. I left learning the piano too late to achieve grade 8 when I was at school, and it's only now that I have set myself the goal of getting to Gr8 standard. I have, however, decided that whilst I'm going to work my way through the grades, I'm only actually going to take the final Gr8 exam (you don't have to do all the exams in order, so you can skip a few if that suits). My piano tutor is going to do mock exams for me for the grades prior to it. Perhaps you could try that? Or maybe putting yourself through an actual exam adds that extra motivation?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted July 31, 2013 Author Share Posted July 31, 2013 I didn't know you could skip grades; that's encouraging. The logistics of exams are very difficult for me, so doing the first few grades would be a pain. Doing the syllabus with a teacher though could be ok. Then maybe tackle a later grade. I do want to keep going with the bow, and it might help with motivation. At the mo bowing is all frustration and no payoff. Can't say it helps with intonation at all (as my tuner confirms). The change in posture just wrecks the reasonable intonation I do have, especially with big position changes. I would dearly love to be able to play some classical pieces though. A distant dream, I'm afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owencf Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Though i am still learning the basics my tute knows i have no intention as yet to follow the grading process. He teaches for the most part classical and traditional styles, but seems alright with the whole not doing exams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbie Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 I feel your pain. I get some great gigs as an upright player in popular music, I am happy with my playing and intonation in the non-academic musical genres. Then now and again I pick up the bow and I feel like a total plonker! I am useless at it! And you are totally right, bowing does not help intonation when you go back to lets say rockabilly, because it is a totally different standing and hand techniques. Still, surely a great bass player could do both? I say good for you for wanting to develop in that area! Best of luck if you go for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MandShef Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 [quote name='fatback' timestamp='1375284560' post='2159290'] I didn't know you could skip grades; that's encouraging. [/quote] Yes, the only thing you need to be aware of is that if you get on to doing the higher grades (6+) you also need to have passed your Gr5 music theory. Keep going, you'll get there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvin spangles Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Hi Fatback I did grades 5-8 one grade per year starting when I was 52 approx. It was a great move for me. I fell in love with the bowed sound so much so that I formed a string ensemble and we do a couple of concerts a year. It gave me a lot more confidence in my intonation. . Bizarrely I wasn't nervous at all because I went into the exams with nothing to lose. It opens a whole other window on bass playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oggiesnr Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 I'm currently working towards Grade 4 (the first one I'm taking) and I'm finding it very useful. Apart from anything else it pushes me outside my comfort zone and that in itself expands it. In my usual playing I don't use the bow but even there I'm finding the discipline of concentrating, listening and adapting useful, though very frustrating at times. It also gives my practice a sharper focus which then crosses over into the rest of the music I play. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philparker Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Plus 1 to all the above! I started just less than a year ago and could only find a classical tutor, but I've really enjoyed playing and practising in a progressive structure that the graded system provides. I have used this along side my own preferences although it does take a up a lot of my time, it has given me that target a d go that you seek. I've never spent as long on scales, arpeggios and studies/Boeing exercises on classic guitar, but it really has helped my all round ability and focus. I intend to come in at grade 6 and will take the exam after Christmas even if I'm ready before because of work commitments. Ish even try for 7 & 8 as well, but eventually I will shift my focus to pizz whilst trying to maintain some classical skill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubassman Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) [quote name='fatback' timestamp='1375284560' post='2159290'] Can't say it helps with intonation at all (as my tuner confirms). The change in posture just wrecks the reasonable intonation I do have, especially with big position changes. [/quote] [quote name='Rabbie' timestamp='1375285812' post='2159314'] And you are totally right, bowing does not help intonation when you go back to lets say rockabilly, because it is a totally different standing and hand techniques. [/quote] 'Change is strange' but it shouldn't take too long to figure out how to move up and down the fingerboard in a 'bowing position'. If its any consolation I play more sideways on doing a jazz pizz set than if I am playing in the orchestra where I am square on cello style. This bowing thing is well worth sticking with it all feeds back into everything else . The bow won't help your intonation ....only you can do that !! It is however a pretty unforgiving way test as to whether you have got your finger in precise enough a place ...pizzicato is way more forgiving! The notes on the fingerboard /instrument are in the same place whatever style and posture you adopt and left hand accuracy is a great thing that we all strive for in every note we play. Good luck with it! PS An interesting test of your current accuracy might be to play the simplest scale pizz, then bowed or to hit the D stop with your normal posture, then without moving your finger position, bow the D stop note and see if it still sounds good compared with the open D. Listening to the accuracy of your note with what you hear pizz with bowing hopeful will throw up some interesting results ! Edited July 31, 2013 by ubassman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBass Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 I'm having lessons (with the excellent Mandsheff) and am starting pretty much from scratch at 35. I've no real knowledge of classical music and no great desire to play it, but most of the pioneers of the kind of music I like had the versatility to slap, pluck or use the bow so I figure that should be my goal. I see grades as a great way of gradually building my know of theory, improving my intonation and arco technique and putting more subtle expression into my playing to a progressing, demonstrable standard. And maybe I'll learn a bit about a different musical genre on the way. I'm enjoying the process a lot, just wish I had more time to practice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbie Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 I will not get any good at arco any time soon: my wife doesn't let me practice with the bow because she says it scares the baby...possibly only scary when I play it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted August 1, 2013 Author Share Posted August 1, 2013 [quote name='Rabbie' timestamp='1375313734' post='2159779'] I will not get any good at arco any time soon: my wife doesn't let me practice with the bow because she says it scares the baby...possibly only scary when I play it... [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted August 1, 2013 Author Share Posted August 1, 2013 OK. Back to school for me in the autumn. I've collected up the RIAM syllabuses and nothing looks daunting until 5 and above. I see the Grade 5 theory requirement for performance grades above that. Luckily my theory is not too bad; it's making yer actual sounds that's my problem. Big thanks for all your thoughts on this. I'd always been put off by the idea that grades were for kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubassman Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 My misses says us blokes are all big kids anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBass Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 When I first started lessons I remember I'd played a decent paying gig the night before, then at my lesson looked at myself in the mirror as a bearded, tattooed adult struggling to bow "The Teddy Bear's Picnic". A healthy sense of humility always helps. Good luck with it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted August 1, 2013 Author Share Posted August 1, 2013 [quote name='AndyBass' timestamp='1375385262' post='2160671'] When I first started lessons I remember I'd played a decent paying gig the night before, then at my lesson looked at myself in the mirror as a bearded, tattooed adult struggling to bow "The Teddy Bear's Picnic". A healthy sense of humility always helps. Good luck with it! [/quote] Oh dear. I've already dumped one none too cheap bass book because it wanted me to play Twinkle Twinkle Little Star. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oggiesnr Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 [quote name='fatback' timestamp='1375389823' post='2160763'] Oh dear. I've already dumped one none too cheap bass book because it wanted me to play Twinkle Twinkle Little Star. [/quote] Nowt wrong with Twinkle Twinkle Little Star, I can play it on sixteen instruments! Mind you, on a number of them it's the only thing I can play Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbie Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Twinkle twinkle little star and Teddy bear's picnic are great tunes. Nothing to be ashamed of...au contraire...I wish I could write something half as good as them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted August 1, 2013 Author Share Posted August 1, 2013 Ah, but it's not the tunes as such that bothered me; it's that those tunes [i]played badly [/i]are especially horrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubassman Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 ...weve all been there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbassist Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 I have a jazz background &I found learning to use the bow and studying a classical music post grad had a HUGE effect on my playing. It might not be for everyone, but if you put the time in with a good teacher it will really help your playing in loads of ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazybirdpete Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I also come from a jazz background (as a sax player) but I'm concentrating on classical playing with the bass on which I'm pretty much a beginner. I'm having monthly lessons, aiming to go in for exams at some point starting at about grade 5 or 6 and have also joined a very good local amateur orchestra. This is only possible because they are always desperate for bass players. Any other instrument and I wouldn't have a chance of getting in! I'm looking out for opportunities to play other styles of music and have just got myself an amp with that in mind. I'm ambivalent about the grade thing but it does seem to be important to people in the classical world. My impression is that playing a lot with the bow does have a positive effect on intonation. Pizzicato playing seems very easy in comparison and incredibly relaxing after playing with the bow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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