Converting a 3/4 classical guitar into a Ubass.

[Maude]

Hello, this little build will be more about trying new things and giving me something to potter with than to create a masterpiece,
After a member, I'm sorry I can't remember who now, posted a link to this conversion I thought why not? I've often thought a Ubass would be handy for trips away and such like but never fancied spending so much money on something that would probably never be used in a band situation.
Also, as mentioned, it would give me a chance to try new things such as a de-fret without risking ruining an expensive instrument.
I started looking on good old Ebay for a 3/4 classical guitar with a scale length of as close to 21" as I could find, as I believe that is the scale length of a Kala Ubass. I messaged a few sellers about this measurement but none were forthcoming so while in Plymouth yesterday I went into the used equipment emporium known as 'Wants' armed with a tape measure. The best I could find was a 23" which would be fine as 'Road Toad' who make the Pahoehoe strings used on Ubasses do a long scale set designed for 22-24", so perfect. Also being a slightly larger body and longer scale should help the acoustic volume. It's still an experiment remember .
Anyway I bought the guitar for £15 so a nice cheap base (not bass yet )

[attachment=140755:030820131052_1.jpg]

[attachment=140762:030820131058_1.jpg]

Once home I set about pulling it apart, strings off, tuners out, nut removed. I prefer the fretless Ubass as this will be used more in conjunction with my acoustic band in which I play doublebass than the electric band so I pulled all the frets out as well.

[attachment=140757:030820131053_1.jpg]

[attachment=140758:030820131054_1.jpg]

[attachment=140760:030820131057_1.jpg]

Lifting the frets with a screwdriver has left little dents in the fingerboard but I'm not worried as I will obviously be sanding it after filling the fret slots. I may finish it with a glossy clearcoat but I'm not sure yet, it depends how the strings work with it.
I'm not sure which strings to use, the Pahoehoes or the Thunderguts but as the Pahoehoes are available for a longerscale I suppose it has to be them. Listening to soundclips I prefer the sound of the Pahoehoes as they have a deeper thump than the Thunderguts which seem to have a brighter top end but the Thunderguts are more stable after tuning and higher tension. Decisions, decisions. Also I assume if the Thunderguts are higher tension to start with and designed for a 21" scale then they will be even higher tension when fitted to a 23" scale, putting the guitar under possibly too much strain. Plus the Pahoehoes are black and I was planing on taking the finish off the front of the geetar and refinishing it in a nice dark wax or oil and the Thunderguts are bright white, more suited to an 80's flying V Ubass but that'll have to be someone elses project .
Anyway, I'll look into that some more.

Also ordered a set of black P bass tuners yesterday as they will fit across the vertical slots in the headstock, I probably won't fill the original tuner holes as it will add extra weight to the headstock which will be heavy enough once P bass tuners are fitted.

I'll update when some more happens .

[threedaymonk]

Is this the conversion you mean?

[url="http://ozbassforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=12037"]http://ozbassforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=12037[/url]

[Maude]

Nope, this one.

[url="http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-Bass-Uke/"]http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-Bass-Uke/[/url]

But it's all good reading, avoiding others pitfalls.

It's only a bit of fun and if it doesn't really work then it's not a lot lost and I'll make something else out of it, put a sweet vending twisty thing on it and fill it with Jelly Bellies .

[Myke]

I'm very interested in this as I plan to build one myself! So goodluck

Oh did it happen to be Andyjr1515? He's been a real help to me with regards to designing mine

[Maude]

Update time!
I sanded the brown finish off the front of the body back to the light plywood and sanded the fretboard down removing the black paint.
No pictures of the body, sorry, as I went straight ahead and put a coat of dark wax on it. I sort of knew the wax wouldn't work as I left some of the sealer coat on the plywood but I thought I'd try it and see what happens, it can always come off with some white spirit. As I smeared it on it made a fake wood grain of sorts which from a distance looks koa-esque .
A couple more coats may darken it up enough to get away with but we'll see.
Some shiney new black tuners turned up and were fitted after reversing two of them to get a 2+2 headstock. Reversing P tuners is really easy, just undo the screw on the back, remove the screw, gear and plate underneath, take out the 'elephant ear' worm drive and flip over, then refit the plate, gear and screw.

[attachment=141687:160820131092.jpg]

[attachment=141688:160820131093.jpg]

[attachment=141689:160820131095.jpg]

As I can't use the ferrules to take the strain off the tuning posts I fitted the lower two with the post resting against the lower edge of the headstock slots and the top two are fitted so that a piece of dowel can be slotted through the original tuner holes to take the strain off of them. I don't think it was needed as the strings are very low tension but better safe than sorry and it was an easy thing to do.

[attachment=141690:160820131097.jpg]

I've got some strap buttons on their way which I will screw through body into internal braces to take the strain of a strap, it's not heavy so should be fine. I think the neck strap button will have to go onto the back of the headstock to balance it, it will have massive neck dive in the conventional position.
I have a new nut to go on once the fingerboard is done, I'm just trying to decide what to fit into the fret slots before refinishing the board in black. Laminate shims or just fill them with a sawdust/glue slurry. Shims will be neater as the edges of the slots are a bit untidy.
The slots look worse in the flash of the camera but should be ok if shimmed and then stained black again.

[attachment=141691:160820131098.jpg]

That's it for a minute, as I said it won't be a thing of beauty but it should be functional and quirky .

As time allows I'll do some more and update.

Oh yeah, nearly forgot, I've just ordered some black Pahoehoes from Road Toad Music in a longer scale to fit the slightly larger than Ubass neck/body. These are what are fitted as standard to the Kala Ubasses.

See you all next time on 'Lets bodge a Bass up!'

Edited August 16, 2013 by Maude

[Maude]

Blimey, how long ago was this!

Right, I got some time over Christmas to finish this, eventually.

The wax never dried properly before as there was still some finish left on so the wax couldn't be absorbed, so off it came with white spirit.

I then sanded all the finish off the body and filled the fret slots in the neck and gave it all a nice rub down ready for waxing properly.

[attachment=151325:281220131330_2.jpg]



I first gave the body a coat of 'dark oak' water based wood stain, the stuff you put on sheds, to darken it up as I didn't want to put lots of wax on. I had the same stuff in black kicking about as well so I did the neck.

[attachment=151326:281220131332_1.jpg]



Another coat of black on the neck and a coat of dark wax on the body have made it just the colour I was after, the flash in the pictures make all the colours look a lot light than they really are.

[attachment=151327:281220131334.jpg]


After all this dried and a good buff up it was looking something like it.
String time, I had to file the E string slot out on the machine head so the fat Pahoehoe would fit in. I glued the new nut in place and fitted the E and G string and visually lined them up over the bridge so I could mark where the new holes needed to be drilled. I drilled new holes straight down through the saddle so the new strings could be fitted from inside the body and over the bridge. Once the E and G strings were done I then did the same with A and D strings, I didn't bother measuring any of the string spacings as it was simpler to do by eye due to the differing thicknesses of the strings. The strings really need stretching to close to pitch before fitting through the machine heads so as not to have too much string wrapped around the post. They are still stretching in so may need to be pulled through some more yet, I have just fed the strings through the post and not down the centre hole as the E,A and D won't fit. They hold in place nicely as to fit them you need to stretch them so they are slightly thinner, once released they grip well on their own.

[attachment=151328:010120141348.jpg]



Here it is all built up including a thumbrest I had spare, it plays really well and is surprisingly loud, it's only for at home anyway. Although I am going to order a peizo for under bridge so it can be amplified, I reckon it'll sound awesome amped up.
I'll take some nicer pictures in daylight to better show the colour but it wasn't ever meant to be a stunner, just a cheap Ubass for a bit of fun, which it definitely is.
I've also added a couple of strap buttons in case I need them.
A nice Christmas shot

[attachment=151329:311220131339.jpg]



Price up time,

Guitar £15
Tuners £15
Strings £20
Nut £2
Strap buttons £2
Thumbrest £2

Total £56

[Myke]

I like the look of that!

May see if I can pick up a cheap one of these!

[Grangur]

[quote name='Myke' timestamp='1388618544' post='2324201']
I like the look of that!

May see if I can pick up a cheap one of these!
[/quote] +1
what's the volume like? I know acoustic bass is never loud. So I'm not expecting anything much.

[Grangur]

I've been looking at strings too... the price of £20 is good. Maude, where did you get them from?

[Maude]

Volume wise it's not bad at all, plenty loud enough for playing at home.
I use 40watt near field monitors with my PC and it's loud enough to play along to music on there at a sensible level, obviously if you crank the volume it won't keep up, but at a 'normal' level it well within it's capabilities.
The larger body definitely helps.

Strings are direct from Road Toad Music, who I think make the Pahoehoe strings, if not distribute them. $31 inc postage.
[url="http://www.bassuke.com/string_store.html"]http://www.bassuke.com/string_store.html[/url]

You can get the white Thunder Guts, better name worse colour , which are a touch brighter, more articulate sounding according to my research but I'm happy with the Pahoehoes. I can't see there's a lot of difference anyway. The Pahoehoes do have more sustain than I expected but they have a very strong solid fundamental, think gut strung doublebass rather than steel strung doublebass.

[Maude]

A few more pictures



[attachment=151749:060120141361.jpg]

[attachment=151748:060120141359.jpg]

[attachment=151750:060120141353.jpg]

[Myke]

Sorry, I'm a bit confused. How did you fit the strings through the bridge?

[Grangur]

[quote name='Myke' timestamp='1389292290' post='2332513']
Sorry, I'm a bit confused. How did you fit the strings through the bridge?
[/quote]Have you bought an instrument to convert then Myke?

What I'm thinking of doing is drill in through the thicker bridge wood and pass in the strings and knot then inside.

[Myke]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1389309240' post='2332826']
Have you bought an instrument to convert then Myke?

What I'm thinking of doing is drill in through the thicker bridge wood and pass in the strings and knot then inside.
[/quote]

Not yet but I've seen a couple in the second hand shops near by so I was thinking of buying them once I get paid.

Knot them inside? Edit: OH I presume they don't have ball ends because they are uke strings?

Edited January 9, 2014 by Myke

[Maude]

I drilled through the bridge and fed the strings through from inside the body, like a string through body bridge would be on conventional electric bass.
You don't need to knot them, they come with a sort of rubber sleeve on the end which will stop them pulling through.
I'll take a couple of close ups tomorrow from inside and out so you can see, it's easier than trying to explain.

[Myke]

That would be brilliant, thank you!

[Grangur]

I went and bought a 3/4 sized on ebay. Went to collect it and it's in nice condition with a case etc. I also got talked into taking the 1/2 sized one they had too; case with that as well. So now I have a 23" and a 21".

Problem... Mrs G likes them as guitars and wants to play them!!

See Maude!!! Just look at what you've done now!!

[Myke]

Tell Mrs G, she can only have one and use which other one for the U bass

[Maude]

Sorry for the late reply! Bloody real life getting in the way of this internet lark .

On the bridge there is a recessed bit just in front of where the original nylon strings would pass through, I drilled downwards into the guitar body in this recess as it seemed a nice tidy place to do it.

[attachment=152096:110120141391.jpg]



This is from inside the body so you can see how the strings are terminated.
I was going to put a metal washer over the string first before threading through the bridge to stop it from pulling through but the strings are such low tension I didn't think it was needed.

[attachment=152095:110120141393.jpg]

[dannybuoy]

You should contact Aquila about getting a set of their new red strings. The Aquila dude has brought out a 23" scale bass and made these strings especially for them:

http://www.shortbassone.com/?cat=4&lang=en

Also La Bella are working on a set of their new transparent tapewounds designed for these type of basses too!

[Myke]

Fantastic! Thank you very much for those! Makes perfect sense now!

[Myke]

Done mine

[URL=http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/MikeWatkinsBass/media/WP_20140129_001_zps4111572e.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a487/MikeWatkinsBass/WP_20140129_001_zps4111572e.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[Grangur]

Hey Myke, nice bass!

My strings have just arrived in the post today. I'm a bit concerned about the length of the strings. My guitar is 23" from bridge to nut and the strings delivered are 29" long. There's not much length to play with. In fact the G string is only 25" long!

Is this how yours came guys?


Edit: Got my answer on this - yes this is normal

Edited January 30, 2014 by Grangur

[dannybuoy]

Btw, I anyone's thinking if putting together their own U-Bass on the cheap, you might want to look into this option first! £100 for a Kala clone:

http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_kahuna_clu_bass.htm

[Myke]

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1391116995' post='2353576']
Btw, I anyone's thinking if putting together their own U-Bass on the cheap, you might want to look into this option first! £100 for a Kala clone:

[url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_kahuna_clu_bass.htm"]http://www.thomann.d...na_clu_bass.htm[/url]
[/quote]

That's interesting, I haven't seen that before.

I think I spent £50 on mine and it does the job, sounds proper nice actually, very addictive to play!

The strings need some serious stretching, I didn't do that before I put them on so will probably just live with it for now but needs tuning every 10mins or so atm.