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bass on 'two tribes'

marcus bell

By marcus bell,
in General Discussion

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jazzyvee Mentor

jazzyvee

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Well I had heard years back that Norman Watt Roy was the bass player and his Alembic bass was recorded and then processed to get the sound that ended up on the record. The only reference to him on a quick search was this one.
[url="http://thequietus.com/articles/04077-frankie-goes-to-hollywood-welcome-to-the-pleasuredome-20th-anniversary"]http://thequietus.com/articles/04077-frankie-goes-to-hollywood-welcome-to-the-pleasuredome-20th-anniversary[/url]
Do a search for Norman Watt Roy and you will find an entry.

I have no idea how true it is. Maybe someone else may know more.

Jazzyvee

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risingson Mentor

risingson

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the oft repeated story is that Norman Watt Roy was invited by Trevor Horn to try out his new Fairlight CMI. Horn sampled NWR, they had a lot of fun and then the next time NWR heard what Horn had done with the bass he'd sampled it had turned up on Two Tribes, without his permission. It was meant to have been NWR's Alembic unless I'm mistaken.

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BigRedX Grand Master

BigRedX

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[quote name='jazzyvee' timestamp='1375802760' post='2165867']
Well I had heard years back that Norman Watt Roy was the bass player and his Alembic bass was recorded and then processed to get the sound that ended up on the record. The only reference to him on a quick search was this one.
[url="http://thequietus.com/articles/04077-frankie-goes-to-hollywood-welcome-to-the-pleasuredome-20th-anniversary"]http://thequietus.co...0th-anniversary[/url]
Do a search for Norman Watt Roy and you will find an entry.

I have no idea how true it is. Maybe someone else may know more.

Jazzyvee
[/quote]

Norman Watt Roy was involved at some stage of the Frankie recording sessions, but how much of his playing actually ended up on the finished product is debatable.

Most of the recording is the product of "Page R" on the Fairlight CMI. It is possible that some of the NWR recordings ended up as notes in the sequence. It is equally possible that it was actually Mark O'Tool or that it was one of the many samples that Trevor Horn and his production team had already assembled.

All this is mostly irrelevant since the important thing is that it's a brilliant song with a great production and a controversial video to promote it.

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BigRedX Grand Master

BigRedX

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[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1375804735' post='2165928']
the oft repeated story is that Norman Watt Roy was invited by Trevor Horn to try out his new Fairlight CMI. Horn sampled NWR, they had a lot of fun and then the next time NWR heard what Horn had done with the bass he'd sampled it had turned up on Two Tribes, without his permission. It was meant to have been NWR's Alembic unless I'm mistaken.
[/quote]

That story is most likely completely wrong. Trevor Horn and his production team had been using the Fairlight since 1981. It's all over the first ABC album and Art Of Noise Recordings and so could hardly have been considered "new" when he was making the first Frankie recordings in mid 1983.

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risingson Mentor

risingson

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[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1375805125' post='2165939']
That story is most likely completely wrong. Trevor Horn and his production team had been using the Fairlight since 1981. It's all over the first ABC album and Art Of Noise Recordings and so could hardly have been considered "new" when he was making the first Frankie recordings in mid 1983.
[/quote]

I guessed it was probably a bit of a myth, but it was certainly what I'd heard. I also like that particular version of the story.

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BigRedX Grand Master

BigRedX

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The story that I have seen in at least two different interviews with people involved with recording of Frankie Goes To Hollywood and have had confirmed by a friend with inside information, is that The Blockheads including NWR were asked to play on one of the early versions of "Relax". These recordings weren't used as they didn't have the feel that Trevor Horn was looking for.

By the time that both "Relax" and "Two Tribes" were released they had gone through multiple recordings and mixes. In the end the majority of the rhythm tracks had been created on the Fairlight CMI using individual note sampling and the Page R sequencer to create the actual performance. It my have been that some of those individual bass notes came from the NWR recordings, but by the time the tracks were completed but no-one knows or was willing at the time to admit to that. Besides having individual notes sampled and then re-sequenced into a new performance hardly counts as having played on the track. Remember this is in the days when sample memory was very limited and even on a very expensive state of the art instrument like the Fairlight, sampling was all about getting the most out of the shortest sample possible. Sampling a whole musical phrase was completely unheard of at the time. The basslines for Relax and Two Tribes could have been covered with 2-3 individual note samples and some clever programming.

The recordings for the first Frankie Goes To Holywood album were so much the product of the studio that TBH whose performances were used other than the vocals was largely irrelevant. The important part was the songwriting which shows in the strength of the singles and the relative weakness of the other tracks on the album where no amount of flash production can disguise the fact that some of the songs simply aren't very good.

Frankie Goes To Hollywood also played Two Tribes on The Tube a couple of weeks after their debut performance of Relax. The version aired had pretty much the same instrumental parts as the final recording that was released. All that was added to the recorded version was a tightening up of the arrangement and the big Trevor Horn production.

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The fasting showman Proficient

The fasting showman

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[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1375863794' post='2166513']
The story that I have seen in at least two different interviews with people involved with recording of Frankie Goes To Hollywood and have had confirmed by a friend with inside information, is that The Blockheads including NWR were asked to play on one of the early versions of "Relax". These recordings weren't used as they didn't have the feel that Trevor Horn was looking for.

By the time that both "Relax" and "Two Tribes" were released they had gone through multiple recordings and mixes. In the end the majority of the rhythm tracks had been created on the Fairlight CMI using individual note sampling and the Page R sequencer to create the actual performance. It my have been that some of those individual bass notes came from the NWR recordings, but by the time the tracks were completed but no-one knows or was willing at the time to admit to that. Besides having individual notes sampled and then re-sequenced into a new performance hardly counts as having played on the track. Remember this is in the days when sample memory was very limited and even on a very expensive state of the art instrument like the Fairlight, sampling was all about getting the most out of the shortest sample possible. Sampling a whole musical phrase was completely unheard of at the time. The basslines for Relax and Two Tribes could have been covered with 2-3 individual note samples and some clever programming.

The recordings for the first Frankie Goes To Holywood album were so much the product of the studio that TBH whose performances were used other than the vocals was largely irrelevant. The important part was the songwriting which shows in the strength of the singles and the relative weakness of the other tracks on the album where no amount of flash production can disguise the fact that some of the songs simply aren't very good.

Frankie Goes To Hollywood also played Two Tribes on The Tube a couple of weeks after their debut performance of Relax. The version aired had pretty much the same instrumental parts as the final recording that was released. All that was added to the recorded version was a tightening up of the arrangement and the big Trevor Horn production.
[/quote]I think that summarises what happened on the record well. There's very good interviews with Trevor Horn and Steve Lipson in Howard Massey's 'Behind the glass vol 2' that give good insight. Also good interviews with Trevor Horn and Paul Morley in Simon Reynolds' 'Totally Wired' and 'Rip it up and start again'. Apologies if this has been mentioned elsewhere.

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Raymondo Grand Master

Raymondo

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It's a great tune,fab bass line,but, is it only me that thinks there is no "feel" in that trevor Horn video? well his bass playing anyway!

Oh I know it's perfect note picking and sounds spot on but it feels slightly mechanical to me...

Maybe that's why he is a multi millionaire, recording songwriter/producer/performer and I only get to play at the Vollo when its closing down :D :blush:

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