What's a boy to do if Darkglass isn't dirty enough?

[Scotticus]

I'm looking for some advice, either from people who own Darkglass dirt pedals, or people who used to and decided to move theirs along.

So, originally I owned a B7K. It was meant to replace my Tech 21 VT, which is almost always on adding a touch of grit/clank. Once in a blue moon, I do use that VT as a distortion too, so it seemed like the perfect substitute. I got the B7K, recorded with it and really dug it in that context, but when it came to gigs, I found the EQ in particular to be a bit tame. With a nice cab and/or nice PA, it was ok, but the types of gigs my band play make both of those things a rarity, and I found myself missing that harsh EQ on the VT that can cut through anything and seems to force some life back into knackered old cabs. Well, I figured I had enjoyed the B7K when I was recording, and I couldn't get the VT to emulate what the B7K could do in that environment, so perhaps scaling down to the B3K, using the B3K as purely a distortion and keeping the VT always on would be the one-rig-fits-all solution. As it happens, I got a bit carried away and acquired a B3K and a Vintage, just in case.

Now the point I'm at is that, tbh, I can't quite see why/how so many heavy bands have gone nuts over these pedals. When I get the blend set so that there's no loss of lows, I can't coax enough filth out of either of them to be adding anything more than a sprinkling of distortion. Don't get me wrong, it's a really good sounding sprinkle, but I was hoping for something more along the lines of really good sounding puddles of spectator face.

My signal is this:
Warwick $$ 5er -> tuner -> EBS MultiComp -> Tech 21 VT -> Darkglass stuff -> GK MB500 head -> various cabs (some nice, some nasty, but all exhibiting the same disappointing result)
I mainly play with my fingers, but have also done a few rehearsals with a pick... no difference other than additional loss of lows because I pick like a bit of a nancy.
I've tried going just bass -> Darkglass dirt - head - decent cab, and I'm still underwhelmed assuming I want to keep the low end in tact.
I've swapped out power, patch cables (Diego Powerstation and Lava cable are the usuals) just in case, but no difference.
I've tried switching the chain around, gone with and without each individual pedal... no light at the end of that tunnel.

Chaps, what am I missing? Any advice appreciated.

Scott

[bakerster135]

You probably need to get a Fuzzrocious Rat Tail or Rat King. Think they'll do the trick!

[Sibob]

Yup, Rat Tail with LED clipping
Or just have the Compressor pushing a bit harder?!

Si

[Kev]

I think you may just need to maybe consider the fact that you just don't like the pedal, or it doesn't suit your playing style/setup. Just because it is so well received by many (for me it is a very aggressive drive and I love it! Much prefer to the VT) doesn't mean it will suit you!

[phil.i.stein]

i'm currently using a b3k (thin mode with blend halfway) going into an FEA dual-band-distortion (also blended), into amp.

it really fills out the clanky edge of the b3k and is a tweakers paradise.

if i want fizzy distortion layered over the top, i'll use a blender pedal with a Bogner Uberschall too.

Mahoosive !

[Bolo]

Get you to a shop and try Zvex stuff.
Go at a quiet time like a weekday morning, bring your gear and try various cabs. Then ask everyone in the shop for advice. Try the stuff they come up with.
Purchase when certain, but make sure you get a money back warranty should it not work out.

Or test the fuzzrocious gear at a near BCer.

[Scotticus]

Sibob - yup, tried getting the multicomp to push more than usual, and even tried using the VT as a hefty volume boost pre Darkglass. Both make a difference of course, but the MultiComp wasn't able to push hard enough to make a noticeable change once the whole band are playing, and the more I boost beyond what the MultiComp can provide using the VT, the less playable/musical the Darkglass starts to become. Plus, even if that did work, it'd mean having a separate compressor in a loop just to get these pedals working, because on those settings the MultiComp is stomping all over any cleaner sounds. I've been down that rabbit hole before...

Kev - LOL, fair point, maybe I just don't like it. It does seem odd though how I enjoyed the B7K so much in the studio environment but can't get these to have any mojo live, dontcha think? It's not like I'm a newb with pedals who's not used to tweaking. Should've probably pointed out that I didn't just hop on the Darkglass wagon willy-nilly - I listened to a ton of demos, talked to players I respect, saw a few bands live whose bassists are using them and figured out what it was specifically about the sound that I liked. I don't have the wonga to buy pedals on a whim these days, hence why I'm trying to figure out whether I'm missing something before I sell these on.

bakerster135 - just reading your thread, seems like you're having an issue that isn't a million miles away. Any sign of a resolution at your end?

[hamfist]

I have owned both B7K and B3K. I actually thought the 7 was far more usable than the 3, which had it's owned baked in sound, which you could either like or lump (personally, I got rid). The 7's EQ makes it far, far more flexible. However, I do understand your comments about it's limitations in dirt, because it simply can't go as dirty as many folks would like. I also found the pedals actually almost intolerably noisy at the limits of their distortion settings. I am so sorry to make negative comments about these almost worshipped pedals but that was my experience of them.
I think getting the right dirt pedal is hard, hard work and that there is no substitute for ......

1/ trying out as many as you possibly can

2/ getting a blend pedal, to blend in clean for those pedals which do not have their own blend.

My other observations are that I seem to almost always prefer two drive pedals stacked, running into each other, producing my heavier distortion (and fuzz) tones.
Personally, I have a pedal providing low drive/warmth, which is always on (in my case this is a Barber Gain Changer). Then stomp on extra pedals on top of that for heavier levels of dirt. I can't emphasise how useful having a blend pedal with a big knob (pardon the expression) has been at tweaking my dirt tones. It may be that another lowish drive pedal stacked either before or after your Darkglass pedal may transform it's potential in turns of usable drive.

You'll also find that people will fall over themselves recommending their own personal favourites, which may not work for you at all of course. I can say that I have also been impressed with the Fuzzrocious line, although have found their OCD-based range (the Demon and it's variants) to be much more usable (and modern in tone) than their Rat-based range (Rat Tail plus variants). Again, I have found a blend pedal essential.

Just a few thoughts there to mull over. Good luck !

[charic]

I think the B3k has a little more "grunt" to it. IIRC Alex webster (Cannibal Corpse) prefers the B3k in his setup for that reason. Ofcourse I could be making stuff up lol

[dannybuoy]

I read a similar thread on Talkbass recently where the OP was after something heavier than the Darkglass, and the Digitech Hardwire Metal Distortion was mentioned - might be worth checking out.

I have a Monte Allums mod kit ready to go into a Boss ODB-3 also - if that makes it fall into the same ballpark I'll let you know! This soundclip is promising: [url="https://app.box.com/s/gr8kucdgncp4k2vvaay3"]https://app.box.com/s/gr8kucdgncp4k2vvaay3[/url]

[bakerster135]

[quote name='Scotticus' timestamp='1375836606' post='2166399']
bakerster135 - just reading your thread, seems like you're having an issue that isn't a million miles away. Any sign of a resolution at your end?
[/quote]


Hey Scotticus! Well, I think my issue was just down to not having had enough time to play around with the B3K at practice room/gig volume. I've since found my way around it a bit!

I definitely think it can only really be used for "grit" though. I'm currently using my ARC BGP or a knackered old Turbo Rat in conjunction, to push it over the edge if needs be.

[hamfist]

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1375863102' post='2166498']
I have a Monte Allums mod kit ready to go into a Boss ODB-3 also - if that makes it fall into the same ballpark I'll let you know! This soundclip is promising: [url="https://app.box.com/s/gr8kucdgncp4k2vvaay3"]https://app.box.com/s/gr8kucdgncp4k2vvaay3[/url]
[/quote]

Nice clip. I have to say the general tone (except for 1:00 to 1:12) is a very similar sound to that which I get from my Fuzzrocious demon king and blender pedal. Although I can certainly get a tighter higher gain tone than that clip has between 1:00 and 1:12. Impressive for a modded ODB-3 though !

[fretmeister]

Blend pedal with a EHX Metal Muff. Brutal.

[tonyxtiger]

I've had a VT, a BK3 and a rat tail. All moved on. I can imagine the darkglass would work for studio but I agree its not got the balls Live. It's too "nice"
The VT works well but depends on your rig. I liked it to add some grind to an Aguilar750 head which is a round thick sounding head. It didn't work as well with a Boogie M6 as that head has a lot of mid already.
The rat tail I thought was just a terrible version of a Rat. Massively fizzy without the cut of the original. The OCD and stache seem better clones.

I also find a blend pedal helps but I prefer a 2 channel pedal like the Sheehan pedal with a clean channel and dirty. Much more controllable but ultimately allows the bottom end to stay solid while you increase the amount of drive/distortion. On that note the wounded paw black sheep overdrive is good because you have a clean channel then 3 (low,mid,hi) separate overdrive channels to blend in. Other multi band pedals like the brimstone crossover distortion and the iron ether qf2 are maybe worth trying. They're on my list.

I also agree sometimes two pedals together will get the job done.

Final rant... If you find you need to get some "clank,grind,poke,chunk,balls,insert others here" from a cab or pedal a good way is using an eq pedal. I have a stone deaf parametric eq which I recommend if you want to fix a problem. It's great quality and very musical. You can sweep from 65hz to 3000hz. Use it to cut real unwanted high end or boost the lows, add some more mids etc.
if you have a pedal that's almost there I reckon the PDF1 would sort it.

Hope this helps.

[flameboy87]

Been watching some videos on the B7k and I think I feel the same about something missing, I know the only way I would know properly is to try it for myself. Anyway, I'm also toying with the idea of getting the AMT Electronics Bass Crunch instead. Think it might have more in it.

[Prime_BASS]

Personally I think you getting lost in the muddle between sounding good solo and sounding good in a mix.

For me my sound from my board doesn't get changed, so foh get what I want it to get, and this the audience, the type of gigs I get I'm lucky to be Able to hear any bass at all et alone enough mids to hear the dirt but out front it should it is fine so I don't care too much.

Personally I would get that comp in a clean loop on its own and have the dirt in another blended in. So the darkglass is just pushing in dirt and it's not loosing its own dynamics from having a compressed signal pushed into it.

[CPBass]

Boss Mega Distortion! Awesome for bass.

[bjelkeman]

I just did my first band practice after the summer break, hardrock/metal, with my new Darkglass B7K, into a Mesa M6. Bass is an -84 Ibanez RB850 playing on the bridge pickup. Mid boosts all round. The drummer literally jumped up after the first song and shouted "It sounds so damn good!"

I know my sound isn't for everyone. But I am pretty damn satisfied.

Edited August 13, 2013 by bjelkeman

[Ruck]

Perhaps the location of the bridge pickup on the $$ is not giving you the treble grind you require to really push the Darkglass? Or the natural scoop of using both humbucker pickups on the $$ is numbing the required mid range? Maybe the battery in your $$ is running low and not giving you the output needed or the $$ is naturally low output? I stopped using Warwicks myself as I required a richer higher mid register for the tones and effects I am pushing. Mind you Dick Lövgren from Meshuggah gets the best distorted tone ever from his Dolphin, which has the bridge pickup right up by the bridge. I hope all this rambling helps to some degree or you find the solution I'm sticking with my B3K I can tell you that much for sure!

[Ruck]

Also as you've tried already I recommend not using compression before distortion. But each to their own! But if the Darkglass really isn't enough and you love your Warwick so, you'll have to go the old 'blend in a guitar distortion then boost' so you can keep you lows, distort has much as you want, then level it off. But this usually requires 3 pedals where as the B3k does it for me in one tiny one.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Ruck