Custom Jazz and P Basses - Consensus?

[chris_b]

This isn't confined to Fenders. Producers really can listen with their eyes!

I was on a recording session and used my Lakland on day 1, then as the day was scrapped due to a technical problem, I brought the Wal to day 2 and even though they EQ'ed both basses to pretty much the same sound, everyone agreed the Wal sounded better!

IMO, a little less EQ and it really would have sounded better.

[krysh]

in the 30+ years of being an active musician unfortunately I have found out that the "typical" brands and models are nothing for my taste. neither the playability/ergonomics nor the sound did fit to what I had in my mind.
so I ended up with some custom/rare/strange/unknown instruments and I love them, and the best is most people love the sounds I have to offer. for me a brand or age is meaningless if you can't express on them what you want to say with your fingers.

[thodrik]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1377013827' post='2182232']
This isn't confined to Fenders. Producers really can listen with their eyes!

I was on a recording session and used my Lakland on day 1, then as the day was scrapped due to a technical problem, I brought the Wal to day 2 and even though they EQ'ed both basses to pretty much the same sound, everyone agreed the Wal sounded better!

IMO, a little less EQ and it really would have sounded better.
[/quote]

Yeah, it does happen sometimes. I have seen sound engineers get into giddy levels of excitement when a fellow bassist took out a Warwick Thumb at a gig.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='thodrik' timestamp='1377013257' post='2182222']
It is complete rubbish but I have faced it enough myself to the point that I will always bring a Precision to my first rehearsal with a band and just take it from there.
[/quote]

I always make a point of bringing something weird to the first rehearsal. If the other musicians don't like it then it's obviously not the band for me. I find it a good way to weed out dull bands who won't have any idea of visual presentation and stagecraft.

[thodrik]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1377015396' post='2182255']
I always make a point of bringing something weird to the first rehearsal. If the other musicians don't like it then it's obviously not the band for me. I find it a good way to weed out dull bands who won't have any idea of visual presentation and stagecraft.
[/quote]

Interesting idea. I quite like that despite it being the complete opposite of my own approach. Although my own decision to take a Precision is usually out of waryness of other peoples ideas on visual presentation and stagecraft (ie, everything must look retro). Essentially I just use the Precision as a blank canvas and take it from there. I suppose in a way if I went to rehearsal and was told that a Precision is 'too boring' I'd know that it wasn't the right band for me, even though I know I could bring a modern five string if I wanted to.

[ChickenKiev]

[quote name='BenTunnicliffe' timestamp='1377011731' post='2182199']
playability and inspiration that comes from the slick hand-built designs is second to none, which i agree with.

[/quote]

I actually like the idea of basses that are a little harder to play; ones that you actually have to grab around the balls, a similar idea to those rodeo buffoons that think its wise to ride an angry bull!

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1377015396' post='2182255']

I always make a point of bringing something weird to the first rehearsal. If the other musicians don't like it then it's obviously not the band for me. I find it a good way to weed out dull bands who won't have any idea of visual presentation and stagecraft.
[/quote]

Great idea.

That's it. Next band practice I'm taking some bagpipes.

[JTUK]

In the studio, you need a good sounding passive bass.
The reason for this is that they aren't going to complicate things and they may well be the start-off point for the bass sound...you may not get much further on most dates.

I wouldn't take it personally...it isn't about you unless it is your track/album/cash..and your call.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1377022847' post='2182377']
In the studio, you need a good sounding passive bass.
The reason for this is that they aren't going to complicate things and they may well be the start-off point for the bass sound...you may not get much further on most dates.

I wouldn't take it personally...it isn't about you unless it is your track/album/cash..and your call.
[/quote]

In the studio you need to right bass to give the right sound in the context of the track.

JTUK if you go in with your attitude then surely it's already made you a second class citizen as musician. Now tell me with my producer's hat on why I should even both with you on the track and just go with some samples instead.

[krysh]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1377022847' post='2182377']
In the studio, you need a good sounding passive bass.
...
[/quote]

rubbish.

you only need the suitable tone, sound, feel and timing within the right notes for the song and a strong signal without too much noise.

[alstocko]

[quote name='BenTunnicliffe' timestamp='1375897002' post='2167146']
Janek Gwizdala said that he has forced himself to take his old P bass to any pop auditions rather than his Fodera because producers want to see whatever guitars were flavour of the month in MTV videos that particular month....
[/quote]
I remember having this conversation with Janek and he said that the first Precision that he ever owned was bought because he went to a Pop audition with his Wal, and they told him to go out and get a P, and then he would be on the tour!

Crazy, but I see their point...

Still, I have an insatiable lust for all things Precision Bass!

[LiamPodmore]

I have no problems playing either. Although I do like to keep my basses simple, keeping it simple doesn't have to mean P/J bass. At the moment my head is telling me to get a sparkly telecaster bass with a humbucker and a volume control, which to me is simple. Well, either that or a Bongo 5 HH....

Liam

[GrammeFriday]

Interesting quote from Mike Lull, who many folks say makes the best 'Fender 2.0' basses, on what he is trying to achieve as a boutique bass builder:

[left]"Bottom line, I’m a Fender guy. I have owned hundreds of basses. In the mid-seventies I collected everything. The prices back then made these things affordable. As a pro player, for me there is nothing better than a great pre-CBS Precision or Jazz Bass. There is no better bass to record or play live with. If you could compile a list of all the recordings made with these basses, it would be staggering. I wanted to take all the goodness, along with all the idiosyncrasies, and build a better bass. Leo was a genius, but the basses were built to a price point. I want my basses to sound as good but play better and be more consistent."[/left]

A Lull PJ5 for me, please!

Edited August 21, 2013 by GrammeFriday

[Musicman20]

I'd rather have a Stingray.

Funnily enough, I've seen and heard samples of the Sadowsky custom version of a Stingray 5, and it just doesn't have the balls of a Musicman.

[thodrik]

[quote name='GrammeFriday' timestamp='1377076741' post='2182921']
Interesting quote from Mike Lull, who many folks say makes the best 'Fender 2.0' basses, on what he is trying to achieve as a boutique bass builder:

"Bottom line, I’m a Fender guy. I have owned hundreds of basses. In the mid-seventies I collected everything. The prices back then made these things affordable. As a pro player, for me there is nothing better than a great pre-CBS Precision or Jazz Bass. There is no better bass to record or play live with. If you could compile a list of all the recordings made with these basses, it would be staggering. I wanted to take all the goodness, along with all the idiosyncrasies, and build a better bass. Leo was a genius, but the basses were built to a price point. I want my basses to sound as good but play better and be more consistent."

A Lull PJ5 for me, please!
[/quote]

I prefer the look of his boutique Gibson Thunderbirds myself. Nobody else is really doing them.

[GrammeFriday]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1377078956' post='2182977']
I'd rather have a Stingray.

Funnily enough, I've seen and heard samples of the Sadowsky custom version of a Stingray 5, and it just doesn't have the balls of a Musicman.
[/quote]

Er.... Lull doesn't do Stingrays. But in any case Lull and Sadowsky are very different propositions. Sadowskys [i]look[/i] like Fenders but [i]sound[/i] like Sadowskys. They have their own tone. It's a really, really nice tone, too, but not really very Fendery. Lulls tend to sound more like the originals. (Which makes me think that if Lull did do a Ray it would be awesome!)

[GrammeFriday]

[quote name='thodrik' timestamp='1377079239' post='2182988']
I prefer the look of his boutique Gibson Thunderbirds myself. Nobody else is really doing them.
[/quote]

Yes, a T5 is on my lustlist as well!

[chris_b]

I think Mark has a T5 at BassDirect.

[Muzz]

Our band leader will say to me "Oh, aren't you using the Stingray? I loved the sound you got from that on the album." I recorded 2 of the 11 album tracks with the Ray, the other 9 were the Fender P. I asked him which were his favourite bass sounds, the three he picked were all the P.

18 months later, he still fondly remembers the Stingray sound. Or not, as it happens...hearing with the eyes again...

[GrammeFriday]

[quote name='GrammeFriday' timestamp='1377080417' post='2183011']
Er.... Lull doesn't do Stingrays. But in any case Lull and Sadowsky are very different propositions. Sadowskys [i]look[/i] like Fenders but [i]sound[/i] like Sadowskys. They have their own tone. It's a really, really nice tone, too, but not really very Fendery. Lulls tend to sound more like the originals. (Which makes me think that if Lull did do a Ray it would be awesome!)
[/quote]

But on reflection, there's probably no need for Lull to do a Stingray anyway - what Lull is trying to do (as he says in the quote above) is improve on the J and P designs in subtle but clever ways, and thus offer the buyer a 'great pre-CBS' sound without having to pay £10,000 for a good (i.e. playable) example of the real thing. This is also the reason why he is now doing Thunderbirds, as mentioned by thodrik above. Hey presto, no more T-bird neck dive! But with Stingrays, in contrast, there is nothing really much to improve on. Never mind what people say about Pre-Ernie Ball MM, the quality of EBMMs is amazingly good and amazingly consistent for the price, IMO, so there is no need for a Lull-type builder to step in here. ... Unless he could figure out a way to deliver the Stingray sound whilst keeping the bass at Mike Lull weights (i.e. well below 4kg). If he could do that, I might even consider trading in my beloved Stingray, which has Death Star levels of sonic power, but which weighs a friggin ton! (Not a trivial issue for me as a chronic back pain sufferer!)

[GrammeFriday]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1377081107' post='2183022']
I think Mark has a T5 at BassDirect.
[/quote]

Yes, seen it in the flesh - drop-dead gorgeous it is, too ... oh dear ...

[thodrik]

[quote name='GrammeFriday' timestamp='1377082153' post='2183036']
But on reflection, there's probably no need for Lull to do a Stingray anyway - what Lull is trying to do (as he says in the quote above) is improve on the J and P designs in subtle but clever ways, and thus offer the buyer a 'great pre-CBS' sound without having to pay £10,000 for a good (i.e. playable) example of the real thing. This is also the reason why he is now doing Thunderbirds, as mentioned by thodrik above. Hey presto, no more T-bird neck dive! But with Stingrays, in contrast, there is nothing really much to improve on. Never mind what people say about Pre-Ernie Ball MM, the quality of EBMMs is amazingly good and amazingly consistent for the price, IMO, so there is no need for a Lull-type builder to step in here. ... Unless he could figure out a way to deliver the Stingray sound whilst keeping the bass at Mike Lull weights (i.e. well below 4kg). If he could do that, I might even consider trading in my beloved Stingray, which has Death Star levels of sonic power, but which weighs a friggin ton! (Not a trivial issue for me as a chronic back pain sufferer!)
[/quote]

I really think there is a lot more scope in terms of improving the designs of Gibson basses compared to Fenders. With Fenders all you need to do is improve the bridge and achieve consistency in production. With my Gibson EB3 for example you have neck drive, excessive weight, poorly thought out bridge system, set neck construction, tone pots which act as on/off switches rather than a gradual shift, unbalanced pick ups where the mudbucker generally dominates, pick up selections which make no difference regardless of the setting. If you are reading this Mr Lull please get started!

Edited August 21, 2013 by thodrik

[GrammeFriday]

Yes, that should keep him busy for a while!

[GrammeFriday]

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1377081244' post='2183026']
Our band leader will say to me "Oh, aren't you using the Stingray? I loved the sound you got from that on the album." I recorded 2 of the 11 album tracks with the Ray, the other 9 were the Fender P. I asked him which were his favourite bass sounds, the three he picked were all the P.

18 months later, he still fondly remembers the Stingray sound. Or not, as it happens...hearing with the eyes again...
[/quote]

[BigRedX]

[quote name='thodrik' timestamp='1377082658' post='2183051']
I really think there is a lot more scope in terms of improving the designs of Gibson basses compared to Fenders. With Fenders all you need to do is improve the bridge and achieve consistency in production. With my Gibson EB3 for example you have neck drive, excessive weight, poorly thought out bridge system, set neck construction, tone pots which act as on/off switches rather than a gradual shift, unbalanced pick ups where the mudbucker generally dominates, pick up selections which make no difference regardless of the setting. If you are reading this Mr Lull please get started!
[/quote]

What's wrong with a set neck?

[thodrik]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1377084199' post='2183087']
What's wrong with a set neck?
[/quote]

Nothing really. If I am paying for a £4000 boutique EB3 though I think I would want a neck-through design just for the sake of it. Generally I prefer bolt-on construction though as if something goes wrong with the neck, you can just replace it.