Talk To Me About Musicman Basses Please.......

[bagsieblue]

Musicman Basses - stereotype is the Stingray, a la Flea, Bernard Edwards etc.

What bass is the simplest route to the classic Stingray sound?

Would like to pick one up at some point, questions are?

Practical differences between 2Eq and 3 Eq?
Does a HH give a Stingray sound and more or is the Stingray sound comprised?
Are the neck profiles more P or J?
Same question on 5 string neck profiles?
What 'exactly' are Sterling basses - do they do the Stingray sound?
USA MM Subs - worth considering as a starting point?
.....on USA Subs, and real difference on those wired in series and those in parallel?

Any other basses that do the Stingray sound? - OLP?? - Ibanez ATK?? - Big Al??? Warwick Fortress MM??

Thanks guys

Edited August 9, 2013 by bagsieblue

[cloudburst]

Depends how particular you are to get a very specific sound.

Some folk get really anal about it.

2eq (some say original and best) has controls for Treble and Bass. 3eq has mid as well. I would not let that influence my choice.

If you particularly want the original Stingray tone - then H is the way to go. Multi pickup Stingrays have the bridge pickup relocated slightly closer to the bridge which messes with the tone. (EDIT: I'm talking crap here -apparently, it's the Bongo where this happens)

Neck wise, Stingrays are closer to a P. but you can get a SLO Special which has a neck that is narrower like a J.

A MM Sterling is a smaller bodied bass with different electronics. I love them. Very playable and I reckon you can get close to a SR tone.

Sterling by Musicman is a cheaper series of Stingrays etc. Well thought of too.
Subs are well thought of as well - prob a good starting point if cash is an issue.

My recommendation is to go to a shop and try them.

MM Bongo will also do the SR sound. My favourite basses. Awesome piece of kit.

There are a lot more knowledgable folk than me on the forum who will comment on the serial parallel nuances etc.

CB

Edited August 8, 2013 by cloudburst

[molan]

Whatever you do don't buy a new one - they plummet in value like a stone and prices of new ones seem to keep going up

[bagsieblue]

[quote name='cloudburst' timestamp='1375999768' post='2168566']
Depends how particular you are to get a very specific sound.

Some folk get really anal about it.

2eq (some say original and best) has controls for Treble and Bass. 3eq has mid as well. I would not let that influence my choice.

If you particularly want the original Stingray tone - then H is the way to go. Multi pickup Stingrays have the bridge pickup relocated slightly closer to the bridge which messes with the tone.

Neck wise, Stingrays are closer to a P. but you can get a SLO Special which has a neck that is narrower like a J.

A MM Sterling is a smaller bodied bass with different electronics. I love them. Very playable and I reckon you can get close to a SR tone.

Sterling by Musicman is a cheaper series of Stingrays etc. Well thought of too.
Subs are well thought of as well - prob a good starting point if cash is an issue.

My recommendation is to go to a shop and try them.

MM Bongo will also do the SR sound. My favourite basses. Awesome piece of kit.

There are a lot more knowledgable folk than me on the forum who will comment on the serial parallel nuances etc.

CB
[/quote]

Thanks for the comprehensive reply.

If I can shift something I may be able to look at picking one up.

Our experienced guitarist thinks it it the kind of sound we need in our mix.......
If anyone could point me in the direction of a good 'un via PM I'd appreciate it.

[Musicman20]

Quick note, the HH and HS basses have the traditional bridge humbucker in exactly the same place as the H models, APART from the Bongo.

Nothing sounds or feels like a Musicman. Nothing.

Yes, if you want a quick sale I agree they lose money, but if you bide your time and find someone after that model they keep their value (in my experience).

The prices have shot up, they aren't massively popular at the moment, but that will change as trends change. At the moment it's all 'oh I have a P bass in sunburst/rosewood/tort with flats and I've finally found my sound', yeah it sounds good but it's boring as hell.

[cloudburst]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1376002519' post='2168602']
Quick note, the HH and HS basses have the traditional bridge humbucker in exactly the same place as the H models, APART from the Bongo.
[/quote]

Sorry - I always mix this up :-) My bad.

CB

Edited August 8, 2013 by cloudburst

[Musicman20]

[quote name='cloudburst' timestamp='1376002823' post='2168605']


Sorry - I always mix this up :-) My bad.

CB
[/quote]

No worries man

[Lfalex v1.1]

The previous posts have covered MM pretty well, so I'll pick up two of the others..

I've tried several Ibanez ATKs. They get close to the sound, and are well made, but the necks seem quite large, even by my standards. Certainly larger than any Musicman model, which is what puts me off. One would be a bargain second-hand buy.

I own a Fortress Masterman 5. Another used bargain. Typically good Warwick build and materials. Balances and plays well. A bit odd aesthetically, but tons of variations around a good core tone.
But it's only hum-cancelling with the pan-pot in the centre position...

I've been through a Musicman SR5, OLP MM3, Ibanez SRX 700 and Zoot Chaser to get to the Fortress...

Whatever you do, try before you buy. And I would seriously advocate going second-hand.

You might also want to consider the Corvette FNA or the Streamer Jazzman, plus the Status Groove...

That didn't help much, did it?

[Lowender]

Quick summery -- MM's are loud, clear and clanky. They have a huge frequency range and are very "active" sounding. Great for slap. They have their own sound for sure.

Bennard got a sound that was very [i]Un[/i]-MusicMan. That was in part his technique along with dead strings and the use of the foam mute.

Not sure if you're referring to the Sterling bass or the Sterling series. (Very confusing and dumb on MM part to do that). The Sterling bass is like a Stingray with a J neck. The Sterling series is a cheaper product that seems as good as the American -- if you get a good one.

The Big Al is supposed to be more versatile because it has dozens of sounds, but to my ears, it has dozens of versions of the same sound. I can EQ my MM to do the same thing.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Lowender

[cybertect]

I'd hardly say my '79 MM Sabre is 'clanky', it's wonderfully warm - though I don't play slap, rarely use a pick and I use it most often with the neck pickup only or neck and bridge together.

That said, I know other people get a much toppier sound out of a Sabre than I do.

[nottswarwick]

The stingray is wonderful in a band situation, it just works. I love them although I haven't got one at the mo...

I've owned 3, and they can be clanky and cutting, or fat and warm. Check out chic at budokan for Bernard's stingray tone. Not clanky but still unmistakably stingray.

[Bolo]

It's pretty darn good for metal!

[Musicman20]

Oh, to add to this. If you want the classic Musicman tone, I'd go for one with alnico pickups, (ANY Stingray 4) 2 or 3 band EQ, (the 2 band has more deep bass and snap, the 3 band allows more mid control...both sound VERY similar) H, HS or HH, (they traditional bridge H sounds identical, trust me).

If you want a 5 string, all the latest (2008 ish onwards) Stingray 5's have alnico pups.

If you want to spend a little more on a posh neck, and old features, slab body etc, get a Stingray Classic 4 or 5.

FYI - The USA made Sterling is like a Stingray, smaller body, thinner neck (very quick neck), 3 band EQ only, ceramic magnet pups. The Sterling sounds MORE aggressive, more middy, very good at cutting the mix.

The Bongo is another animal. A very cool bass. It took me a few years to get used to the shape then I bought two. The H model has the H in the normal Stingray place, the HS and HH don't....but they sound great...and a different take on the tradtional Musicman tone.

The Big Al is a cool bass as well, more so the SSS version.

Then you have the Reflex, Gamechanger, etc.

[Musicman20]

..and another thing, stick a set of old strings on the bass, or even try old flats, roll the treble back, bump the bass, it sounds HUGE. Nothing like the normal Ray tone that people expect.

[Gust0o]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1376000068' post='2168569']
Whatever you do don't buy a new one - they plummet in value like a stone and prices of new ones seem to keep going up
[/quote]

You could buy my [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/206856-fsft-musicman-stingray-4-trans-teal-3eq/"]old one[/url] and let me hunt down a new Gibson

Fees all paid before someone reports me!

Molan does make a good point, though, the second-hand market is a good place to start looking for a first Musicman - unless you have to have something exactly how you want it, there's a terrfic premium to be paid going new.

[stingrayPete1977]

Once you get your head around the various rays my collection makes more sense, I have a classic with all the old features plus it's alnico and two band, my 2010 is 3 band alnico, 2007 is 3 band ceramic, both have pickup switching selectors, if the ceramic in single coil mode with the mids boosted won't cut through nothing will, forget the p bass! Those three basses cover all the various single pickup versions , if I had to keep just one it would actually be the ceramic SR5 that was after ten years of avoiding ceramic equipped ones

Edited August 9, 2013 by stingrayPete1977

[Dingus]

As other folks have said , there are so many Stingrays about of various vintages on the used market for very reasonable prices , and that isn't likely to change any time in the forseeable future , so buying a new one seems a bit of a waste , unless you have your heart set on a brand new one for whatever reason , of course . That said , that Stingray sound is , along with the Precision and the Jazz , one of the quintessential bass guitar sounds in popular music and is perenially popular . So many great players have used them and so many great records have featured that distinctive tone . They are a bit of a one trick pony , but it's a great trick and one that's entertaining enough to keep most folks amused . Stingrays never go out of fashion , and probably never will .

My own take is that lots of basses will do" the Stingray thing " , not just ones that say Musicman on them . The characteristic sound of that parrallel-wired humbucker in that sweet-spot position isn't that difficult to replicate , and I've played many Music Man - inspired basses that captured the sound of a Stingray admirably well . The other side of the coin, however , is that the overall feel and " vibe "of the instrument is significantly different on a lot of those other basses by virtue of the fact that many are a different design and body shape , ect , so that is something else to consider . I am a big fan of Warwick's take on the Musicman sound , for example , and I think that MEC MM - style humbucker sounds way closer to the pre - EBMM vintage Music Man pickups that the ones on the current EBMM's , but one you put it on a Warwick bass the overall experience is significantly different to a traditional Music Man bass . My own opinion is that you shouldn't get too hung up on the whole anlico versus ceramic thing . It makes far less difference than you might think , and much less than if the bass is series or parrallel -wired , which is an option on certain MM basses such as the Sterling ,Reflex and Big Al , which are themselves a bit more versatile as a result . Bongos sound great too ,and a bit more defined and articulate than the Stingray but still with a big dollop of that signature Musicman sound . The bottom line is that [i]any[/i] Musicman is usually a good addition to someones collection of basses , and one that very few players regret .

[KevB]

I have to admit I never really got on with mine and after a lot of extra expense trying to get it as good as it could be I decided to move it on, never regretted it. And considering it was a 4-string stingray the g wasn't that piss-weak outputwise either.

[Stan_da_man]

G&L - the improved Stingray.

[BassTractor]

It has been said, I think.

My own noob take, and relayed here before, is that while I lurve my Bongos and StingRay, the RockBass Corvette of the last two years is a lot closer than the price difference might seem to indicate. Dunno about the other brands mentioned, but I read that with keen interest.

For me personally, the Bongo's 4 band EQ is the most important of the differences - - coz of my pet peeve of bass and treble knobs being less important to the timbre shaping than the two mids are.
imho.

best,
bert

[stingrayPete1977]

I think the Ceramic Vs Alnico makes more difference than you think (I have both identicle other than the pup basses hanging right here, strung the same too), that said the 3 EQ with the ceramic sounds kind of like a 2 band but with controllable mids, this might be why I like it so much?

[Dingus]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1376066072' post='2169312']
I think the Ceramic Vs Alnico makes more difference than you think (I have both identicle other than the pup basses hanging right here, strung the same too), that said the 3 EQ with the ceramic sounds kind of like a 2 band but with controllable mids, this might be why I like it so much?
[/quote]

My point , Pete , is only that , regardless of their respective merits , they both sound unmistakably like a Stingray .

Edited August 9, 2013 by Dingus

[Lozz196]

Having had a 3-band Stingray, and a 3-band Sterling By Musicman Ray34, if buying new I`d get the SBMM. Not much in them at all. Of course if you buy 2nd hand you can get a real Stingray for roughly the same as a new SBMM, then there`s no depreciation. And then, a 2nd hand SBMM would be even more reasonable. Great basses, but ultimately, I only like the sound of them when others are playing them.

[Roger2611]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1376070521' post='2169407']
, I only like the sound of them when others are playing them.
[/quote]

+1 to that

[bagsieblue]

Thanks all,
If I was to pick one up it would be second hand