Help me choose a cab! Schroeder, Dr. Bass, Genz & 2x12 musings...

[wateroftyne]

Hi all

Like the title says, I'm thinking out loud...

I've had a Schroeder 21012L for a couple of years, and done many, many gigs with it many different situations. It's been fab every time. Now, for the first time, I'm considering a change for two reasons.

1 ) GAS
2 ) My new head

With regards to 1 ) - yeah... I'm an idiot but I'm human and a like a change every now and then.

As for 2 ) - I recently bought a MESA MPulse 600 head which is fab'n'groovy and nice and round and tubey, just how I like it. However, it has big booty... as does the Schroeder. Put them both together, along with flatwound-strung Precisions, and it's MASSIVE, and possibly a little overpowering. It's not so much a problem with my fretted which is ace, but my Fretless P isn't as defined and growly as I'd like. It's there if I DI from the head to the FOH, but it's kinda lost via the cab.

I've been thinking of getting the board of my fretless epoxied to tighten it up, but.. I dunno. I also switched to rounds and half-rounds, but that gives me more of a 'boiiing' than a growl. Don't like 'em.

Anyway, to cut a long, rambling, story short... I quite fancy experimenting with a new cab. Probably a 2x12.

The general criteria is...

- Not too big (preferably with a depth of less than 44cm as that means it'll fit in the cupboard under the stairs during quieter times)
- Not too heavy (my Schro is 26kgs, so 30kg tops, say...)
- 600w @ 4ohm minimum
- Able to to the job as a standalone cab at a noisy pub gig, with a big'n'focused bottom end

Candidates (not all 2x12s!) include...

Schroeder 410
Schroeder 1210
Schroeder 1212
Dr. Bass 2460
Genz NeoX 212
Aggie 212
Epi UL212
TecAmp 212
EBS 212 NEO
Zoot 212

...and probably a million others.

I REALLY like the look fo the Genz and the DR. Bass, but are these good standalone cabs? I love Schroeder, and I'd be keen to see if the 410L has a slightly tighter bottom-end, too. Not much chance to try one, though.

I'd be interested to hear your opinions, even if it's 'Stick with the Schroeder you fool. It's just a GAS attack!'.

Thanks for not falling asleep yet.

Edited June 14, 2008 by wateroftyne

[Chopthebass]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='217564' date='Jun 12 2008, 01:07 PM']Hi all

Like the title says, I'm thinking out loud...

I've had a Schroeder 21012L for a couple of years, and done many, many gigs with it many different situations. It's been fab every time. Now, for the first time, I'm considering a change for two reasons.

1 ) GAS
2 ) My new head

With regards to 1 ) - yeah... I'm an idiot but I'm human and a like a change every now and then.

As for 2 ) - I recently bought a MESA MPulse 600 head which is fab'n'groovy and nice and round and tubey, just how I like it. However, it has big booty... as does the Schroeder. Put them both together, along with flatwound-strung Precisions, and it's MASSIVE, and possibly a little overpowering. It's not so much a problem with my fretted which is ace, but my Fretless P isn't as defined and growly as I'd like. It's there if I DI from the head to the FOH, but it's kinda lost via the cab.

I've been thinking of getting the board of my fretless epoxied to tighten it up, but.. I dunno. I also switched to rounds and half-rounds, but that gives me more of a 'boiiing' than a growl. Don't like 'em.

Anyway, to cut a long, rambling, story short... I quite fancy experimenting with a new cab. Probably a 2x12.

The general criteria is...

- Not too big (preferably with a depth of less than 44cm as that means it'll fit in the cupboard under the stairs during quieter times)
- Not too heavy (my Schro is 26kgs, so 30kg tops, say...)
- 600w @ 4ohm minimum
- Able to to the job as a standalone cab at a noisy pub gig, with a big'n'focused bottom end

Candidates (not all 2x12s!) include...

Schroeder 410
Schroeder 1210
Schroeder 1212
Dr. Bass 2460
Genz NeoX 212
Aggie 212
Epi UL212
TecAmp 212
EBS 212 NEO
Zoot 212

...and probably a million others.

I REALLY like the look fo the Genz and the DR. Bass, but are these good standalone cabs? I love Schroeder, and I'd be keen to see if the 410L has a slightly tighter bottom-end, too. Not much chance to try one, though.

I'd be interested to hear your opinions, even if it's 'Stick with the Schroeder you fool. It's just a GAS attack!'.

Thanks for not falling asleep yet.[/quote]


Hi mate,
As you may know I have 3 x Aguilar DB112s. Brilliant. Not sure if their 2 x 12 will sound any different than two 1 x 12s. A very good speaker if portability is your thing. Looks like I'm getting a fourth to go with my Epi 902c. A monster compact rig. Had an Epi 2 x 12 for a while. I'm just not that keen on Neo speakers. To me, they all seem to lack a bit of low end grunt. Not had any problems with the Agi's

Ian

[MythSte]

Yeah, after listening to your sound i think some aguilar would do you good

Edited June 12, 2008 by ste_m3

[warwickhunt]

Come round and try my 2x Aggie 1x12s see what they do for you; I also know of a pair of Berg HS 2x10s possibly going spare (not local though).

Better still isn't it time we got a bunch of cabs and amps together again?

[wateroftyne]

Cheers, chaps!

I had considered a couple of 12s... maybe I should revisit that.

In a moment of clarity(!), it's just occurred to me that maybe the problem is that the cab is so low, and I'm missing the definition of the fretless. Then again, I don't like lifting the cab off the stage unless the stage is really hollow and boomy.

Hmm... more to think about...

[cetera]

The Genz Benz NEOX212T is FINE as a standalone cab.... 600W ' 4ohms, lightweight and a full range sound. Check the reviews on Harmony Central and threads on Talkbass, then chat to Mark at Bass Direct. If that doesn't convince you I don't know what will....

[BassBod]

No help with cabs...too complicated. But don't epoxy the Pbass - if you like flats, stay with the rosewood board.

BB

[Clarky]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='217564' date='Jun 12 2008, 01:07 PM']Hi all

Like the title says, I'm thinking out loud...

I've had a Schroeder 21012L for a couple of years, and done many, many gigs with it many different situations. It's been fab every time. Now, for the first time, I'm considering a change for two reasons.

1 ) GAS
2 ) My new head

With regards to 1 ) - yeah... I'm an idiot but I'm human and a like a change every now and then.

As for 2 ) - I recently bought a MESA MPulse 600 head which is fab'n'groovy and nice and round and tubey, just how I like it. However, it has big booty... as does the Schroeder. Put them both together, along with flatwound-strung Precisions, and it's MASSIVE, and possibly a little overpowering. It's not so much a problem with my fretted which is ace, but my Fretless P isn't as defined and growly as I'd like. It's there if I DI from the head to the FOH, but it's kinda lost via the cab.

I've been thinking of getting the board of my fretless epoxied to tighten it up, but.. I dunno. I also switched to rounds and half-rounds, but that gives me more of a 'boiiing' than a growl. Don't like 'em.

Anyway, to cut a long, rambling, story short... I quite fancy experimenting with a new cab. Probably a 2x12.

The general criteria is...

- Not too big (preferably with a depth of less than 44cm as that means it'll fit in the cupboard under the stairs during quieter times)
- Not too heavy (my Schro is 26kgs, so 30kg tops, say...)
- 600w @ 4ohm minimum
- Able to to the job as a standalone cab at a noisy pub gig, with a big'n'focused bottom end

Candidates (not all 2x12s!) include...

Schroeder 410
Schroeder 1210
Schroeder 1212
Dr. Bass 2460
Genz NeoX 212
Aggie 212
Epi UL212
TecAmp 212
EBS 212 NEO
Zoot 212

...and probably a million others.

I REALLY like the look fo the Genz and the DR. Bass, but are these good standalone cabs? I love Schroeder, and I'd be keen to see if the 410L has a slightly tighter bottom-end, too. Not much chance to try one, though.

I'd be interested to hear your opinions, even if it's 'Stick with the Schroeder you fool. It's just a GAS attack!'.

Thanks for not falling asleep yet.[/quote]
there is an Epi UL212 FS on the Forum at a reasonable price - been sitting there a month or two so you will have to search back - its in London though

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='BassBod' post='217674' date='Jun 12 2008, 03:22 PM']No help with cabs...too complicated. But don't epoxy the Pbass - if you like flats, stay with the rosewood board.

BB[/quote]

Well, I've been considering it for a while. The woodgrain is stunning and it would be nice to have it sitting under a nice, clear glassy finish... we'll see.

[MythSte]

the only thing that stops me GASSING everytime i think of changing the schroeder is the volume it kicks out compared to most other cabs... i really dont have to push much into it to get extremely loud results, and i like that! plus the power handeling on them is huge! most 2x12s are 5/600 watts or so? This ones 1000!

[bassjamm]

I use Dr Bass cabs and i too am considering a 2460. I have an RX210 and RX1260 (the little brother of the 2460)...the 1260 i have is awesome, and i have no doubts that the 2460 would be equally so!!! Don't be put off by the low price tag, they're a contender without any doubt!

[wateroftyne]

I SO have Genz / Dr. Bass GAS.

GAH!

[wateroftyne]

And now I SO have GAS for a [url="http://www.tecamp.de/?id=103"]TecAmp M212[/url].

GAAAAHHHH (again)

[steve-soar]

My Jazz and Precision sound much, much better through the normal "heavy" speakers in the cab I have now, then they did through the neos in my AccuGrooves. Neos are, for me, a bit light in umph, and I found I liked 10's better than 12's.
It's a strange and frieghtening world of gas we live in, be on your guard at all times.

[bass_ferret]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='218771' date='Jun 14 2008, 11:24 AM']And now I SO have GAS for a [url="http://www.tecamp.de/?id=103"]TecAmp M212[/url].

GAAAAHHHH (again)[/quote]Looks like a cool cab - taller and narrower than most so easy to get through doors. I am loving my Genz Benz NeoX112T's

They are a bit larger than most 1x12 cabs so have a bit fuller sound. For non neo's look at the Berg's in addition to the Agi's. You could also get the Dr Bass and Zoot cabs with regular drivers.

[JPJ]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='218771' date='Jun 14 2008, 11:24 AM']And now I SO have GAS for a [url="http://www.tecamp.de/?id=103"]TecAmp M212[/url].

GAAAAHHHH (again)[/quote]

20kgs ffs.

Cheers WoT, I didn't have gas until I read this thread but now I bloody do!

Never thought you'd move away from the Schroeder mind. We should probably A/B your real Schroeder with my Eminence equipped clone. Now my speakers are played in, its probably the creamiest but well defined cab I've ever heard and I still haven't figured out how to wire in the horn yet?

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='JPJ' post='218798' date='Jun 14 2008, 12:28 PM']20kgs ffs.

Cheers WoT, I didn't have gas until I read this thread but now I bloody do!

Never thought you'd move away from the Schroeder mind. [b]We should probably A/B your real Schroeder with my Eminence equipped clone[/b]. Now my speakers are played in, its probably the creamiest but well defined cab I've ever heard and I still haven't figured out how to wire in the horn yet?[/quote]

Oh I feel a bit of a bash in the air... especially as I have the Aggie 1x12s

[chris_b]

Too many choices!!!!
I don't know how you would get to hear this, but 'm using a Bergantino AE112 for my acoustic gigs and add an AE210 for the bands. It has a great sound, deep, clear and punchy. I would say it's an aquired taste, not as naturally deep as Epifani but you can eq the bass into it with out loosing the punch, and it's light! I haven't heard a Schroeder cab so I can't compare the two. I have stuck with the Epifani 4x10 and add the AE210 for the very loud stuff. I think have the best of all worlds with this current set up.

[wateroftyne]

Cheers, all

I'm being such an anorak about all this. I've put the specs of loads of cabs in a spreadsheet for easy cross-referencing. If there's any interest, I'll stick a link up to it when I'm done.

Bass Ferret... the Genz look VERY appealing. I'm still considering the NeoX 212.

JPJ... I'm as suprised as you are, but I genuinely think P-basses, flatwounds and MPulse heads aren't the best match for the Schro's HUGE bottom end. Then again, it's 99% likely to just be a total GAS attack.

Well, the current favourite is the Dr Bass 2460, because:

- It's the right size & weight
- They seem to be well thought-of on 'other' forums (although I'd love to hear from any UK-based owners)
- I like the idea of having the 6.5" driver.. I could roll the tweeter right off still have a defined top-end.
- Mrs. WoT likes the price!

My reservations are:

- I haven't tried one! That's par for the course, though... I buy virtually everything unheard. I'm a bad, bad man.
- It's only slightly taller than my Schro. I kinda like the Genz / TecAmp 'vertical array' arrangement - the height makes them a little easier to hear (handy for the fretless).
- I'd like to be sure that it can cut it as a standalone cab in a noisy pub gig without PA support.

Lots still to think about.

Could someone in the know answer me this? The Schroeder 21012L's SPL & response is 104db / 35Hz-18kHz, and the Dr Bass's SPL & response is 101db / 42Hz-20kHz.

What would the difference between these figures be in the 'real world'? Especially the difference in the low-end response.. does this mean the Dr. Bass has a far lighter bottom end?

Steve-soar... I'm actually wondering wether, if I pull the trigger, to just go for the standard Dr. Bass rather than the NEO. The difference between that and my Schro is only 5kg....

Sorry folks. I'm rambling.

[bass_ferret]

See [url="http://wiki.basschat.co.uk/info:amps:lightweight_cabs"]the basschat wiki[/url] for info on 1x12 cabs.

[bass_ferret]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='218813' date='Jun 14 2008, 01:10 PM']Could someone in the know answer me this? The Schroeder 21012L's SPL & response is 104db / 35Hz-18kHz, and the Dr Bass's SPL & response is 101db / 42Hz-20kHz.[/quote]
You would definitely notice 3db - its the equivalent of having another cab. But specifications can be misleading. Schroeder are known for having a mid hump so this might be the frequency used to measure sensitivity. And the frequency response is meaningless on its own. What neither of them publish is actual frequency response and sensitivity graphs.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='218813' date='Jun 14 2008, 01:10 PM']I'm being such an anorak about all this. I've put the specs of loads of cabs in a spreadsheet for easy cross-referencing.[/quote]

It's a shame that the vast majority of these specs are fictitious, extremely optimistic or carefully incomplete, otherwise that would be a useful document. Whatever you do, don't let the makers' creative writing skills affect your final decision!

Alex

[wateroftyne]

Hi Alex!

Absolutely.. I'm taking the SPL and response info with a pinch of salt based on what the likes of yourself have said (I don't really know what it all means, anyway!).

I've got all the dimensions, weights, prices etc., on the spreadsheet, which is mainly what I'm using it for. It's handy for cross-referencing.

In other news, the Dr. Bass and Genz are still favourites, but just in case I've asked Don at [url="http://www.lowdownsound.com/customcabinets.htm"]Low Down Sound[/url] in Detroit for a quote. My ideal cab at the mo is two 12s in a vertical array, along with a 6" or an 8" and no tweeter. I'd also like the top half to be slanted back a bit to help me hear it when I'm near it. It might be a terrible idea for a cab - I dunno. I'll see what Don comes back with. You just never know.

[BB2000]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='219210' date='Jun 15 2008, 01:47 PM']It's a shame that the vast majority of these specs are fictitious, extremely optimistic or carefully incomplete, otherwise that would be a useful document. Whatever you do, don't let the makers' creative writing skills affect your final decision!

Alex[/quote]

+1

Unless they publish a SPL graph assume the figures are dreamt up by the marketing department (and the cabs are designed by the receptionist when she isn't answering the phones).

May as well stick EA cabs on your list (mine worked well with my walkabout when I had one). Haven't checked the Bowlus blog recently, perhaps he's revisited 12" cabs.

[BB2000]

Maybe PJB cabs as well? I know their reputation took a knock this forum due to an ill advised email allegedly from PJ to a member, but the small combos I've played through have been great. Allways wanted to try the Dalek cabs. Babbit is happy with his (ask him on his forum).