Even the best luthiers have their off-days...

[molan]

[quote name='Ghosts Over Japan' timestamp='1376506837' post='2175216']
and in one very sly swoop he has lost a LOT of trust and that will lead to a HUGE loss in custom.
[/quote]

There's a 2 year waiting list for a new Alleva Coppolo. . .

[stingrayPete1977]

So?

[steve-soar]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1376506242' post='2175197']
I had a custom - order Status bass and in my experience Rob and Dawn are two of the most decent and honest people you will ever meet in this business . You can place an order with them with the knowledge that they won't be happy until you're completly happy with the bass you get from them , and they will be there to help with any future problems you have with it . I would say buying a Status is a [u]very [/u]low risk in comparison to many other builders .
[/quote]
I agree. Their basses are immaculate. The one I own, even though it's 10 years old, been around the world, courtesy of its previous owner, is stunning and plays like a dream.

Edited August 14, 2013 by steve-soar

[Dingus]

[quote name='steve-soar' timestamp='1376515496' post='2175448']
I agree. Their basses are immaculate. The one I own, even though it's 10 years old, been around the world, courtesy of its previous owner, is stunning and plays like a dream.
[/quote]

I think a lot of the dissappointments that people experience with exotic custom - order basses from the States is that , after duty , tax and shipping costs they end up paying over the odds for what they actually end up with . A bass which would be the equivalent of £1900 -£2250 in the States can easily set you back three grand or more by the time you get it in your hands here in the U.K . You aren't getting a £3000 -quality bass for that money . With a Status or similar , you are getting a lot for your money , by comparison .

Edited August 14, 2013 by Dingus

[martin8708]

I have had the pleasure of owning an Alleva , and it was truly a wonderful bass , very well finished and incredibly playable and I would buy another without any hesitation .

Life has taught me there are two sides to every story , we have heard an awful lot from the purchaser .
Dealing with the public for nearly 30 years has also taught me you can't please all the people all the time . Stories and events become twisted and manipulated over time .

With this outcry of disgust and horror , I eagerly await a wave of A-C basses to appear in the for sale section , so I'm off to raid the piggybank and click on wonga to pick up some bargains . But , I somehow doubt that will happen , as those that own one of Jimmy's bass's know just how good they are .

I can't help but thinking those doing the most slagging off are people who have never owned or played an A-C bass and never have any intention of owning one .

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='martin8708' timestamp='1376518866' post='2175543']
I can't help but thinking those doing the most slagging off are people who have never owned or played an A-C bass and never have any intention of owning one .
[/quote]

What kind of insight would owning an AC lend to the debate about how Jimmy handled this particular transaction?

[molan]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1376510845' post='2175319']
So?
[/quote]

So there won't be a huge loss in custom - it's pretty basic economics. His instruments are so over-demanded that even a big drop in short term demand will not damage his business.

He'd have to make bass after bass after bass that was sub-standard and have each one heavily publicised for him to see any long term effect.

In the main his instruments are so highly demanded that they hold value incredibly well on the used market and his new ones will sell just as well, partly because of the cost of the used ones (it's classic restricted-supply, desirable product, scarcity value = high prices and demand type theory).

[thisnameistaken]

Conversely, it seems everybody who is so keen to defend the guy owns one of his basses. Worried about resale values much?

[molan]

[quote name='martin8708' timestamp='1376518866' post='2175543']

With this outcry of disgust and horror , I eagerly await a wave of A-C basses to appear in the for sale section , so I'm off to raid the piggybank and click on wonga to pick up some bargains . But , I somehow doubt that will happen , as those that own one of Jimmy's bass's know just how good they are .

[/quote]

I'm sorely tempted to put one of mine up for sale to test the theory

The last one for sale here sold at about £3K in just a few hours and the most recent one I've seen for sale in a retail outlet sold at full asking price in just a few days.

Maybe all the publicity will actually push values up - it wouldn't be the first time I've seen this happen!

Edit - Also a pair of brand new ones were offered up to the dealer network in the past week. They sold in minutes at full price - I'm willing to bet a sizeable chunk of money they won't be appearing at discount prices any time soon

Edited August 14, 2013 by molan

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='martin8708' timestamp='1376518866' post='2175543']
I can't help but thinking those doing the most slagging off are people who have never owned or played an A-C bass and never have any intention of owning one .
[/quote]

The quality (or lack thereof) of his work has literally nothing to do with his utterly piss-poor public handling of the situation.

I can't help but wonder if those giving it the "two sides to every story" spiel have actually bothered to read his public response on TB. Its completely embarrassing.

[molan]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1376519185' post='2175553']
Conversely, it seems everybody who is so keen to defend the guy owns one of his basses. Worried about resale values much?
[/quote]

Shock horror - people who own basses and have had personal, and very friendly, dealings with the people who made them actually like those people, whatever next?

Better alert the media, I'm sure this hasn't happened before. . .

There's been so many people saying that, in the main, his basses are fabulous but this one was an aberration that it will have brought the 'brand' in front of lots of new potential customers. those customers may well be looking a lot closer at each individual instrument before but just watch prices start to rise because of all the publicity

[LukeFRC]

This thread seems to be going around and around without actually getting anywhere.... AC makes lots of very good basses, everyone likes them - he makes one dog, sells it, turns out customer service isn't a strong point. Every tom dick and harry chimes in with their opinion, some of which are interesting, some of which arn't. Twelve pages later the same things go around and around again. So... we learn every luthier in the world can have a bad day, and one man band luthiers may be crap at customer service. Beyond that... it just all become so negative....

[quote name='E sharp' timestamp='1376505687' post='2175185']
Was saving up for my dream Status and probably looking close to 3k . Although this thread is only about A.C. , it surely must make anyone think long and hard about a new build . Certainly made me think , and I'm not even questioning Rob's work .
[/quote] don't be daft. Ask around - now for each maker you'll meet one or two who maybe get something with major or minor issues.... and hundreds of happy customers. I'm pretty sure you could spend £3000 on anything status, overwater, ACG, sei, shuker, or the other british builders and have no problem at all. (Also EU legislation protects you from defects better)

[molan]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1376520892' post='2175582']
This thread seems to be going around and around without actually getting anywhere.... AC makes lots of very good basses, everyone likes them - he makes one dog, sells it, turns out customer service isn't a strong point. Every tom dick and harry chimes in with their opinion, some of which are interesting, some of which arn't. Twelve pages later the same things go around and around again. So... we learn every luthier in the world can have a bad day, and one man band luthiers may be crap at customer service. Beyond that... it just all become so negative....

don't be daft. Ask around - now for each maker you'll meet one or two who maybe get something with major or minor issues.... and hundreds of happy customers. I'm pretty sure you could spend £3000 on anything status, overwater, ACG, sei, shuker, or the other british builders and have no problem at all. (Also EU legislation protects you from defects better)
[/quote]

Totally agree - on both points

[Dingus]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1376519185' post='2175553']
Conversely, it seems everybody who is so keen to defend the guy owns one of his basses. Worried about resale values much?
[/quote]

I haven't got one , and never have had . I played a couple when they first came out , but that must be going on for ten years ago now . I am trying to get away from the ubiquitous active Jazz -style bass , so I am very disinterested in owning one , except maybe the stubby little short scale one he makes to play in front of the T.V to annoy Mrs Dingus . Jimmy Coppollo , if you are reading this , they were all saying terrible things about you but I stuck up for you . If you want to show your appreciation by giving me a bass then send me a P.M and we will arrange delivery . You owe me . Those short scale ones are the cheapest ones you make , so it's not really much to ask . Just make sure it's not ex-show stock .

Edited August 14, 2013 by Dingus

[risingson]

Just been on the Alleva Coppolo website. I'd still like one.

[Dingus]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1376520892' post='2175582']
This thread seems to be going around and around without actually getting anywhere.... AC makes lots of very good basses, everyone likes them - he makes one dog, sells it, turns out customer service isn't a strong point. Every tom dick and harry chimes in with their opinion, some of which are interesting, some of which arn't. Twelve pages later the same things go around and around again. So... we learn every luthier in the world can have a bad day, and one man band luthiers may be crap at customer service. Beyond that... it just all become so negative....

don't be daft. Ask around - now for each maker you'll meet one or two who maybe get something with major or minor issues.... and hundreds of happy customers. I'm pretty sure you could spend £3000 on anything status, overwater, ACG, sei, shuker, or the other british builders and have no problem at all. (Also EU legislation protects you from defects better)
[/quote]

Yes , Luke . All I have been trying to say is the nearly all builders / manufacturers will have had experiences like this if they are in business for any length of time . Genuine misunderstandings and sincere disagreements happen , but it doesn't make them villans whose work becomes worthless overnight .

[Dingus]

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1376522935' post='2175615']
Just been on the Alleva Coppolo website. I'd still like one.
[/quote]

I might be getting a free one !

[charic]

Sorry guys, I think Dingus just won the thread with 'just make sure its not ex show stock'

[ezbass]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1376520892' post='2175582']
This thread seems to be going around and around without actually getting anywhere....
[/quote]Yes, it's been like this for a few pages now. On the one side we have those who think the bass in question had faults, but these things happen; on the other side we have those who think that for that kind of money it should never have left the workshop. No one's position has moved and I doubt it ever will. Time for us to move on?

[Musicman20]

Ay, tiring thread. Hopefully the OP now had the funds on the way back to him, and he can plan his next purchase!

For THAT kind of money, I'd be straight onto Roger Sadowsky for a custom 5 string. Guaranteed it will be perfect.

[Toasted]

Pretty much. You'd get a lot of change too.

[ezbass]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1376560706' post='2175908']
For THAT kind of money, I'd be straight onto Roger Sadowsky for a custom 5 string. Guaranteed it will be perfect.
[/quote]This has been my thought all along; when the dust settles I can't help thinking that this will have served his business well without him having to have lifted a finger, or spent a cent.

[risingson]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1376560706' post='2175908']
For THAT kind of money, I'd be straight onto Roger Sadowsky for a custom 5 string. Guaranteed it will be perfect.
[/quote]

I wanted to love Sadowskys but I was consistently underwhelmed with 80% of ones I've tried, both NYC and Metro. I even swung by the new shop in Queens a few months back. Some lovely stuff but almost nothing to justify me spending. The exception are the (relatively) new Will Lee models with the mid boost. Really helped the preamp along and so easy to play.

Mike Lull stuff is doing it for me at the moment.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1376580542' post='2176410']
I wanted to love Sadowskys but I was consistently underwhelmed with 80% of ones I've tried, both NYC and Metro. I even swung by the new shop in Queens a few months back. Some lovely stuff but almost nothing to justify me spending. The exception are the (relatively) new Will Lee models with the mid boost. Really helped the preamp along and so easy to play.
[/quote]

All the NYC Sadowskys that I've played sounded better to me with the pre-amp turned off.

[Dingus]

[quote name='ezbass' timestamp='1376562652' post='2175942']
This has been my thought all along; when the dust settles I can't help thinking that this will have served his business well without him having to have lifted a finger, or spent a cent.
[/quote]

I think folks might be surprise how little difference this little spat makes to AC's order book . A lot of the pontificating about how they would never trust Jimmy Coppollo with their money is by people who were never , ever going to order one any way ! That fact shouldn't be overlooked . It's a phenomena that workd both ways in terms of positive publicity , too . Part of the reason Jimmy Coppollo and Roger Sadowsky don't give basses away to big -name players is because they have found from experience that the kind of exposure doesn't neccesarilly directly equate to increased sales and more overall profit . You don't make any money from people dreaming about buying your basses . It's only the people who actually hand over their cash that really matter . Once a builder has a certain profile , it can even become much more of problem to keep up with demand rather than to court new customers .