wateroftyne Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 [quote name='Lew-Bass' timestamp='1376353754' post='2172819'] Jimmy's reply: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f8/my-horrible-alleva-coppolo-experience-1006426/index36.html#post14719935 [/quote] It's not great, is it? Photoshop? Let's not forget that the only reason this made it to the pages of TB is because the OP hit a brick wall. Ask yourself: If you were £3300 in the hole, and the same happened to you, what would you do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I was wondering what your take on this all would be Molan - as I know you've had a few AC... it's all a bit of a mess really - best bet would be Jimmy take it back - refund and then spend a few hours sorting it out and he can resell it again. Mind you suggesting that "the buyer knows how to take photos that will show the flaws" and this isn't on is a bit out.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Actually from putting guitars on ebay, I know how very difficult it is to show flaws in a guitar as they often don't show. Its good that he is now offering the money back, but if he had done that in the first place maybe they wouldn't have had this issue and that thread (and the other part in that thread of someone else who couldn't get his money back). But that front horn and stomach cut area, hmm.. I could do that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Just read Jimmy's reply (not looked at the rest of the thread after that)... As WoT says 'Photoshop' and literally accusing the guy of applying (or allowing someone to apply) glue to the neck or to say that it is possibly oil residue; not the response that I anticipated. I can go with camera angles and flash but no mention what so ever of the headstock, gash routing etc! Glad the guy is getting a refund. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 [quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1376378433' post='2172896'] Just read Jimmy's reply (not looked at the rest of the thread after that)... As WoT says 'Photoshop' and literally accusing the guy of applying (or allowing someone to apply) glue to the neck or to say that it is possibly oil residue; not the response that I anticipated. I can go with camera angles and flash but no mention what so ever of the headstock, gash routing etc! Glad the guy is getting a refund. [/quote] Oh dear. JC's response reads more as a stream-of-consciousness, get-me-out-of-here thing than a reasoned and reasonable reply. This whole thing has been a serious disappointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 The whole thing is a complete train wreck. And if that really is Jimmy Coppolo in the reply he really doesn't do himself any favours. Goes to show that no matter how good you are at the thing that earns you money you really have to have some basic business skills to back it up. The high-end Fender clone market isn't one that really interests me, but there appears to be an awful lot of competition out there, so you really can't afford to piss of any of your existing customers or potential new ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pobrien_ie Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 [quote name='Lew-Bass' timestamp='1376353754' post='2172819'] Jimmy's reply: [url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f8/my-horrible-alleva-coppolo-experience-1006426/index36.html#post14719935"]http://www.talkbass....ml#post14719935[/url] [/quote] Worst attempt at damage limitation I've ever seen. My favourite quote of the thread: "....the professional luthier's attempt to reverse blame and his complete disregard for paragraph structure don't do him any favors, imo." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jono Bolton Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Crikey, having seen that JC had replied I was expecting nothing more than "you're right, this isn't good enough, I'm arranging for the bass to be sent back and a full refund will be issued". Trying to imply that the OP spunked 5 grand on a bass and then proceeded to go out of his way to make it look like a dog's dinner in unbelievable, really poor show. And as Warwickhunt said, nothing to address the damage to the headstock or the routing/contouring. Still, at least the guy's getting his money back, which is the least he deserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 [quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1376377742' post='2172890'] But that front horn and stomach cut area, hmm.. I could do that [/quote]Indeed, and not even mentioned in the reply. I'm no carpenter, but I could've got a smoother finish on that horn with just sandpaper, never mind whatever specialist tools your average luthier has. Photoshop? My hairy backside! The excuse for his no return policy is beyond belief, its hard to believe that, given the size of the US, there is no distance selling legislation there. Anyway the chap is getting a full refund so it's all good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 My favourite so far [quote][color=#000000][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]Note to self, Don't let Dug Pinnick play my bass.[/font][/color][/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 [quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1376376736' post='2172882'] I was wondering what your take on this all would be Molan - as I know you've had a few AC... it's all a bit of a mess really - best bet would be Jimmy take it back - refund and then spend a few hours sorting it out and he can resell it again. Mind you suggesting that "the buyer knows how to take photos that will show the flaws" and this isn't on is a bit out.... [/quote] I don't think that bass can ever be sold no matter how much more work is done to it - at least not to anyone whose seen the TalkBass thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 (edited) Wow. Interesting response from JC! Kinda with molan on this too.. alot of people ready to pitchfork when they have no experience of AC basses. Certainly, the pics which are on show on TB are not in keeping with the quality of AC that I have seen. Can't really say much more but I am still surprised by the response of JC. For me, it's kinda up there with the people that say, "my bass is better than a Fodera... or finished better than a Fodera... etc." when these people making such claims have never seen one, yet alone played one, in the flesh so to speak. Were the people that say, JC never going to have a penny from me, ever going to buy an AC anyway? It's all kind of sad. Edited August 13, 2013 by EBS_freak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thodrik Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 [quote name='Lew-Bass' timestamp='1376353754' post='2172819'] Jimmy's reply: [url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f8/my-horrible-alleva-coppolo-experience-1006426/index36.html#post14719935"]http://www.talkbass....ml#post14719935[/url] [/quote] That is quite the reply: passive aggressive, accusatory, condescending, poor paragraph structure. I understand that there are two sides to every story, but Mr Coppolo isn't exactly helping himself here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocco Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 [quote name='molan' timestamp='1376348086' post='2172759'] I've owned several of Jimmy's basses, maybe 5 or 6 over the years and every single one has been absolutely superbly finished and I'm more than happy to vouch for his build quality. I've met him a couple of times and he has a, near obsessive, desire to build the highest quality instruments that deliver not only amazing tonal qualities but also, near perfect, aesthetic original design ethics. I genuinely don't think there's another builder out there that comes remotely close to Jimmy when he's on his game. He really cares about his customers as well. I recently bought the 2nd bass he ever made and the owner had removed the original pickups and replaced them with, rather nasty, Seymour Duncans. As soon as I told Jimmy he offered to replace them with his own hand wound originals completely free of charge - this is not the type of guy who screws with his customers and doesn't care about after sales service! I find the fact that he hasn't replied to this thread somewhat revealing and wonder if there's something kicking around in the background that we don't know about and that he doesn't feel a public web forum is the right place to respond. . . [/quote] I wouldn't respond if I'd built that and sold it to an unsuspecting player for 5 months wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 At least the OP gets his cash back. I am a little confused as to how it got to him in that condition. I still think something isn't right. There are now posts saying 'AC basses will lose value' or similar; probably by someone who doesn't own one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 [quote name='molan' timestamp='1376352113' post='2172806'] I'm loving the stuff from people saying things like this thread has been posted for x number of days and Jimmy hasn't bothered to reply so that means I'll never buy one of his basses. Meanwhile the thread was posted on a Friday and, I'm guessing like a lot of working folk, Jimmy won't even have seen it until today. This is on of the hardest working luthiers I've ever met and I know for a fact that he doesn't spend his days aimlessly poring over web forums because, you know, he's like, making basses for a living. . . Talkbass loves nothing more than a good slagging off session and, in recent times, it feels like BC is heading the same way [/quote] I would be just about able to forgive the absolutely shoddy quality of that bass---just about, at a push---because I don't know the full story. I also didn't think it was unreasonable that he hadn't posted in that thread. However, once he did decide to participate JC's public response is completely and utterly unforgivable. He may well create fantastic basses (I've never seen one in the flesh, never mind played one) but he doesn't seem to have a clue about PR. There's more to running a good business than making good gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliasMooseblaster Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 (edited) I just feel a bit sorry for the guy who then posted "so are we done here?" At the bottom of page 36. That was optimistic... Edited August 13, 2013 by EliasMooseblaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 The problem is, you often have three-four types of customer service. A. Unbelievably helpful service, followed by after service, which means you go back time and time again. B. You then have the more 'arrogant' aggressive service, which basically means the buyer has little control or say, and some will walk away quite easily, purely because they know they'd have a fight on their hands if an issue arose. C. You then have the more everyday service, who tend to follow the rules and expectations, but won't go beyond anything else. D. Poor service, poor communication, leading to lost sales. There aren't many places who deal with people as per A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thodrik Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1376385045' post='2172997'] Wow. Interesting response from JC! Kinda with molan on this too.. alot of people ready to pitchfork when they have no experience of AC basses. Certainly, the pics which are on show on TB are not in keeping with the quality of AC that I have seen. Can't really say much more but I am still surprised by the response of JC. For me, it's kinda up there with the people that say, "my bass is better than a Fodera... or finished better than a Fodera... etc." when these people making such claims have never seen one, yet alone played one, in the flesh so to speak. Were the people that say, JC never going to have a penny from me, ever going to buy an AC anyway? It's all kind of sad. [/quote] I don't think that it is necessary to have played an AC bass to realise that something is seriously wrong here. Alleva Coppolo are considered as one of the premier US 'boutique Fender-designed basses' alongside Sadowsky, Nordstrand, Mike Lull etc. It is not necessary to have played an AC bass to recognise that the bass in question is not of the quality expected from such a brand. The most shocking thing is not so much that a substandard bass has managed to escape from the workshop (it happens), but rather the response of the luthier to the problem, in addition to the lengths that the purchaser had to go in order to have the problem resolved. Something may well have happened to the bass between it leaving the shop and it being delivered to the purchaser, however for Mr Coppolo pretty much accuse the the purchaser of trying to engineer the situation with underhand graphic design and photography skills is about as poor as you can get in terms of customer relations. After that, my immediate impression is that I don't particularly feel that I need to play an Alleva Coppolo bass, even if the basses are usually exceptional or if Mr Coppolo is a seriously nice guy in real life and this situation is not a fair reflection of his reputation. It is a real shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1376389307' post='2173076'] The problem is, you often have three-four types of customer service. A. Unbelievably helpful service, followed by after service, which means you go back time and time again. B. You then have the more 'arrogant' aggressive service, which basically means the buyer has little control or say, and some will walk away quite easily, purely because they know they'd have a fight on their hands if an issue arose. C. You then have the more everyday service, who tend to follow the rules and expectations, but won't go beyond anything else. D. Poor service, poor communication, leading to lost sales. There aren't many places who deal with people as per A. [/quote] If you're the Ferrari of the bass world, the only type in this list should be A That's part of the reason people are willing to pay £3300 for one of your instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 It's a puzzle that JC can sell a bass in that condition, and at that price, to a customer and expect that there will be no come back. After refusing to refund did he expect the customer to just go away? His reply was an eye opener and trying to accuse the customer of photoshopping the pictures of the bass made me wonder about his grip on reality. There were people putting up silly posts and many more who didn't so it's easy to ignore the idiots. When the customer posts that he has the money in his hand I'll be happy that the case is closed, but a feeling of disappointment will remain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1376389846' post='2173091'] If you're the Ferrari of the bass world, the only type in this list should be A That's part of the reason people are willing to pay £3300 for one of your instruments. [/quote] Indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molan Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 [quote name='Cairobill' timestamp='1376260938' post='2171562'] Yes, just been perusing this thread. I had the opportunity to play a blocks and binding AC at the gallery a while back and came away thinking that the bass was a nasty piece of work and a colossal waste of money. [/quote] I know that bass It was a show demo item and had flaws in the final build and, most noticeably, the blocks were aligned in an odd way. When Jimmy sold it he, very clearly, identified the issues and reduced the price considerably. When it was sold over here it was, again, clearly marked as being a show demo with some build flaws (none of which affected playability or the core tone - although it was built for Aguilar and had all of their pickups and electronics so it didn't sound like a typical AC). At some point in its history the mentions of these flaws seem to be have been 'forgotten' and it was marketed without any mention of them and at a much higher price than it was probably worth. Someone obviously bought it because it doesn't seem to be for sale any more. It's a good example of why builders should probably not let these types of instruments out on the market. Potentially the first buyer can snag a bargain that might sound good but has cosmetic flaws but if they move it on and mention of the flaws is removed from the for sale notices then people think they are an accurate representation of the brand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busccini Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 but jimmy what was you thinkig ??? you are only loosing with this deal , me myself was having the idea of buying a coppolo ,not anymoore. thanks to post this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molan Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 [quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1376388324' post='2173051'] I would be just about able to forgive the absolutely shoddy quality of that bass---just about, at a push---because I don't know the full story. I also didn't think it was unreasonable that he hadn't posted in that thread. However, once he did decide to participate JC's public response is completely and utterly unforgivable. He may well create fantastic basses (I've never seen one in the flesh, never mind played one) but he doesn't seem to have a clue about PR. There's more to running a good business than making good gear. [/quote] Unfortunately Jimmy is a complete one-man show - he selects the woods, carves them, hand-winds the pickups, puts all the electronics together, does all the sanding and finishing, sprays and lacquers etc. etc. about the only thing he brings in is hardware (and even some of that is custom built for him). He spends pretty much his entire life building instruments and is really not a PR guy at all. In all my experience with him he's been very open and honest. When there's an issue he's accepted it and sorted things without a single quibble. He's also sold some things with obvious flaws and, again in dealings with me, he's explained these very clearly in advance. He's a very, very passionate guy and wears his heart on his sleeve - what you see is what you get with him and I've never had a problem with this. His rebuttal on TB in the face of a lynch-mob is pretty strongly worded and may not be the most PR-friendly way to respond but I can imagine how he felt on discovering that there was a tirade of abuse being fired at him in such a public way and from a bunch of people who'd obviously decided to hang him out to dry. Personally if I had the sort of problems the buyer had I'd get on the phone to Jimmy immediately and, again from personal experience, I'm sure he would have sorted everything without any bother. I can't help like the guy. He absolutely loves what he does and he makes some amazing instruments and puts his all into his, really quite small, business. It seems a shame that so many people on TB seem to be happy to put all kinds of labels on him without actually knowing him or how he works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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