Even the best luthiers have their off-days...

[Dingus]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1376410314' post='2173563']
Alternatively, you can post your experience on Talkbass and have it resolved in about 24 hours for free.
[/quote]

That doesn't make it right , though . It just means it's an effective way of bullying . How long until someone without a legitimate grievance does the same thing out of spite or greed and gets a result again st some poor sod slaving away in a workshop hour after hour for less than minimum wage ? Would that be a victory for consumer rights ? It's the bass guitar equivalent of "vigilantes "lynching people who are accused of being sex offenders . Sooner rather than later, innocent people become the victims .

Edited August 13, 2013 by Dingus

[spongebob]

He should have saved his money and bought a Rickenbacker......






......er, hang on......!!

Edited August 13, 2013 by spongebob

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1376410932' post='2173575']
That doesn't make it right , though . It just means it's an effective way of bullying . How long until someone without a legitimate grievance does the same thing out of spite or greed and gets a result again st some poor sod slaving away in a workshop hour after hour for less than minimum wage ? Would that be a victory for consumer rights ? It's the bass guitar equivalent of "vigilantes "lynching people who are accused of being sex offenders . Sooner rather than later, innocent people become the victims .
[/quote]

Eh? Have you never heard of TripAdvisor? Read a review on Amazon? Taken note of feedback on eBay?

Or would you rather all this went on behind closed doors?

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1376410932' post='2173575']
That doesn't make it right , though . It just means it's an effective way of bullying . How long until someone without a legitimate grievance does the same thing out of spite or greed and gets a result again st some poor sod slaving away in a workshop hour after hour for less than minimum wage ? Would that be a victory for consumer rights ? It's the bass guitar equivalent of "vigilantes "lynching people who are accused of being sex offenders . Sooner rather than later innocent people become the victims .
[/quote]

From my experience of 'reasonable' forums like TB and BC, the truth eventually is outed and someone sprouting shyte about something and generally bullying someone else re. a sale/trade/transaction is shown for what they are. It has happened on more than one occasion where someone has stated that there is a problem with a product and by reasoned debate by the lynch mob as you call them, the truth has been reasoned.

I in no way condone the idiots who may or may not have contacted JC re. that bass, that is reprehensible. However, there are plenty of level-headed people who contribute to such debates and that generally offsets the fools who dive in feet first.

[stingrayPete1977]

I appreciate that some folk on here know JC in person and love his work but man that bass is a sack of sh*t regardless of who built it, It should never have left the workshop in one piece. We all stand up for people or products we like but thats easily the worst top end bass I have ever seen albeit in pics but even still. I would have wanted my cash back within days of JC receiving the bass back at the shop, end of.

[Dingus]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1376411106' post='2173585']
Eh? Have you never heard of TripAdvisor? Read a review on Amazon? Taken note of feedback on eBay?

Or would you rather all this went on behind closed doors?
[/quote]

I've heard of all of them , but I've never read any of them . What you are describing is exactly the phenomena I am talking about - trial by internet . Trip Advisor , for example , is often highlighted as a culprit for the kind of one-sided and unqualified criticism that Jimmy Coppollo has been subjected to over this debacle . When you start making the assumption that because people say something enough that it must be true , you are heading down a slippery slope .

Edited August 13, 2013 by Dingus

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1376411106' post='2173585']
Eh? Have you never heard of TripAdvisor? Read a review on Amazon? Taken note of feedback on eBay?

Or would you rather all this went on behind closed doors?
[/quote]
Unfortunatley the Fanbois of products like this get wrapped up on a personal level because understandably they are often run by one guy or a small family business, if those same people had an amp delivered for £3000 and it was faulty they would be on here in a flash if they were refused a refund from a big corporate company.

[thodrik]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1376411786' post='2173605']
Unfortunatley the Fanbois of products like this get wrapped up on a personal level because understandably they are often run by one guy or a small family business, if those same people had an amp delivered for £3000 and it was faulty they would be on here in a flash if they were refused a refund from a big corporate company.
[/quote]

I wonder how quickly it would have taken Larry Hartke to solve such a problem...

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1376391914' post='2173143']
Unfortunately Jimmy is a complete one-man show - he selects the woods, carves them, hand-winds the pickups, puts all the electronics together, does all the sanding and finishing, sprays and lacquers etc. etc. about the only thing he brings in is hardware (and even some of that is custom built for him).

He spends pretty much his entire life building instruments and is really not a PR guy at all.

In all my experience with him he's been very open and honest. When there's an issue he's accepted it and sorted things without a single quibble. He's also sold some things with obvious flaws and, again in dealings with me, he's explained these very clearly in advance.

He's a very, very passionate guy and wears his heart on his sleeve - what you see is what you get with him and I've never had a problem with this.

His rebuttal on TB in the face of a lynch-mob is pretty strongly worded and may not be the most PR-friendly way to respond but I can imagine how he felt on discovering that there was a tirade of abuse being fired at him in such a public way and from a bunch of people who'd obviously decided to hang him out to dry.

Personally if I had the sort of problems the buyer had I'd get on the phone to Jimmy immediately and, again from personal experience, I'm sure he would have sorted everything without any bother.

I can't help like the guy. He absolutely loves what he does and he makes some amazing instruments and puts his all into his, really quite small, business. It seems a shame that so many people on TB seem to be happy to put all kinds of labels on him without actually knowing him or how he works
[/quote] Have you ever worked in catering? Worked on a busy week, say christmas, with a chef?
So they are passionate, and brilliant at their job and really really good- but in my experience stick one and a sous chef and a KP in a dark hot little room for a week, working fast under pressure and they will (90% of the time) turn into utter swear-words. I wonder about these one man shop builders, stuck there with an order list as long as their arm, buyer of custom instruments constantly pestering them and bothering them, and trying to have a life as well... and mess ups and mistakes and stress induced bad customer service is probably going to result. I can't help thinking that if you get to that stage you may be better trying to take staff on, or using a shop as a customer centre.
Thing is though with custom basses- I've looked at the videos that warwick put up on their website where they show how they build their basses - all computer controlled high precision small batch production -how people expect a single luthier to have (or be able to have) that sort of precision I don't know.
[quote name='molan' timestamp='1376396421' post='2173258']
Jens Ritter is one of the few guys that always builds something really special for each major show he's at. He guards them with his life though and makes sure they are incredibly well looked after.
[/quote] mind you he can point people round the corner to play a chinese version of them..... (google for the video if you don't know what that's a reference too)

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='thodrik' timestamp='1376412230' post='2173616']
I wonder how quickly it would have taken Larry Hartke to solve such a problem...
[/quote]
I love my Rays but I also know what a cock SB can be in these situations, I just dont feel the need to defend him like I would if I knew him personally I suppose but then again this is not a tiny scuff or a slightly larger than hoped for neck pocket, it is a pile of donkey poop

[thodrik]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1376412610' post='2173623']
I love my Rays but I also know what a cock SB can be in these situations, I just dont feel the need to defend him like I would if I knew him personally I suppose but then again this is not a tiny scuff or a slightly larger than hoped for neck pocket, it is a pile of donkey poop
[/quote]

Its funny that my first thought when reading the JC reply was Sterling Ball must have phoned to give JC some friendly advice on how to deal with 'forum stuff'.

We can't expect everybody to act live a saint at all times. However online rants, even if they are prompted by overwork, stress or unwarranted attacks, generally won't help a businessman/woman with their business.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1376410558' post='2173568']
I can genuinely see how you come to that conclusion - it might be my gut instinct too - but that is not justice . Jimmy Coppollo is supposed to be good at building basses , not neccesarilly at representing himself against slander on the internet . He is possibly not the most articulate of men , or the most adept at public relations , but neither of those things would neccesarilly mean that he was guilty of these accusations or that he is fundamentally deceitful or dishonest . That is for a disinterested third party to decide .
[/quote]

Litigation works both way. I would want to be very sure that all the evidence back me up before doing what the OP on TalkBass did.

[Dingus]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1376413151' post='2173632']
Litigation works both way. I would want to be very sure that all the evidence back me up before doing what the OP on TalkBass did.
[/quote]

You are very astute , in that case . I would do the same .

[Dingus]

The big lesson for all of us in this tale of woe is , if you are buying a bass that actually exists already ( rather than ordering a custom build ) then don't let your excitement and enthusiasm get in the way of you going to whatever lengths you can to check the bass out properly before you hand over your cash . One man's "mint condition " is another man's "are you f***in' serious ? "

Edited August 13, 2013 by Dingus

[Musicman20]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1376411106' post='2173585']


Eh? Have you never heard of TripAdvisor? Read a review on Amazon? Taken note of feedback on eBay?

Or would you rather all this went on behind closed doors?
[/quote]

I think ultimately reviews of service will always exist, no matter what people do.

If its a bad service, you should be allowed to discuss it but the extent of the AC thread is mind boggling. Threats? Bullying? Far too much.

[Conan]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1376411691' post='2173603']
I've heard of all of them , but I've never read any of them . What you are describing is exactly the phenomena I am talking about - trial by internet . Trip Advisor , for example , is often highlighted as a culprit for the kind of one-sided and unqualified criticism that Jimmy Coppollo has been subjected to over this debacle . When you start making the assumption that because people say something enough that it must be true , you are heading down a slippery slope .
[/quote]

Would you buy from a new member (with no feedback) on here? Even worse, would you buy from someone who had been given poor feedback in the past? Or would you prefer to deal with sellers who have a significant quantity of (written) feedback that other members have written relating to their experiences with the aforementioned seller?

Although I have bought from and sold to noobs on here, I generally prefer to deal with those with a track record. YMMV of course.

Is it really all that different to what you describe?

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1376420118' post='2173752']
I think ultimately reviews of service will always exist, no matter what people do.

If its a bad service, you should be allowed to discuss it but the extent of the AC thread is mind boggling. Threats? Bullying? Far too much.
[/quote]

It's the internet - idiots are never far away. You just have to ignore 'em.

[Musicman20]

...and I also think some of us would be much less critical of the situation if they owned an AC, knew the chap and could vouch for him, had a part in the dealings, or indeed had a 'deal' or friendship which they want to keep. I doubt the pitchforks would be out like this if it was a UK builder, UK amp manufacturer, or a UK store/business.

[Conan]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1376420118' post='2173752']If its a bad service, you should be allowed to discuss it but the extent of the Bongo thread is mind boggling. Threats? Bullying? Far too much.
[/quote]

Fixed!

[Musicman20]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1376420255' post='2173754']


It's the internet - idiots are never far away. You just have to ignore 'em.
[/quote]

Agreed.

[Conan]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1376420262' post='2173755'] I doubt the pitchforks would be out like this if it was a UK builder, UK amp manufacturer, or a UK store/business.
[/quote]

Have you ever read any of the Barefaced threads??

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1376420268' post='2173757']


Fixed!
[/quote]

Not required Conan. Not at all. See my previous post re: previous threads of this nature.

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1376420262' post='2173755']
...I doubt the pitchforks would be out like this if it was a UK builder, UK amp manufacturer, or a UK store/business.
[/quote]

Really! My memory isn't what it was but I can recall several occasions in the recent past when members of this forum have pulled up UK builders/manufacturers/businesses and the same mentality was displayed; off-set by the moderate majority!

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1376420322' post='2173759']


Have you ever read any of the Barefaced threads??
[/quote]

Of course, and I've commented on them but I've been informed lots has changed at BF recently so things I didn't like probably don't exist now...

The threads never got like this, and owners are very defensive of BF.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1376420519' post='2173767']


Really! My memory isn't what it was but I can recall several occasions in the recent past when members of this forum have pulled up UK builders/manufacturers/businesses and the same mentality was displayed; off-set by the moderate majority!
[/quote]

The response was nothing like this, and I think various OPs were 'told off' for raising the issue by those who might then do exactly the same.

Hence I think it should cool off because none of us ultimately know the facts and/or are involved.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Musicman20