Even the best luthiers have their off-days...

[Lew-Bass]

I find it quite pathetic the lengths people who obviously have their dream instruments from A-C will go to to defend the brand, even in the light of this obvious cock up/screw job.

[charic]

[quote name='Lew-Bass' timestamp='1376480879' post='2174464']
I find it quite pathetic the lengths people who obviously have their dream instruments from A-C will go to to defend the brand, even in the light of this obvious cock up/screw job.
[/quote]

People get loyal to a brand and knowing a the builder personally will definitely put a skew on how you feel about something like this. Lets try and stay objective please

[EBS_freak]

I had a similar experience with a (very popular) builder that was less than rosy. I chose not to make it public on this forum (or any other forum as it happens) as I knew the fanbois would defend to the max. I was close to doing so though - why? I was heavily out of pocket, left with a pos and it was looking like I was not going to get any resolution to the situation. The luthier was not listening and was questioning my ability of knowing anything about the constuction of instruments and how they should or shouldn't be.

I managed to get the situation resolved and get a replacement... albeit only when a third party got involved. Pretty sad that luthiers tend to be highly defensive of their work, reply on the uber offensive and basically treat their customers as dick heads. The only thing that makes the experience a bit sweeter is that I never put in my 4k order with said luthier and never had to deal with the possibility of beind lumbered with a substandard pos.

I can fully sympathise with the OP on TB. I'm still surprised at JC... I read it back again today and my jaw is still on the floor. I love Allevas (well, that green racing stripe one at least)... but I wouldn't have the confidence to order direct now. I would only buy an instrument off the shelf that I could inspect... which is a great shame because an instrument like that, you should have the confidence to spec it up and now that it's going to arrive absolutely bang on. This whole thing about it being a discounted show instrument stinks. If I was at a show and saw that excuse of a bass, I would be walking anyway. I can't see JC having done himself any sort of favour here whatsoever.

Just an all round sad state of affairs.

Edited August 14, 2013 by EBS_freak

[stingrayPete1977]

One day that story will come out Russ and you will be enemy number one, I feel privileged to already know but my lips are sealed

Edited August 14, 2013 by stingrayPete1977

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1376482967' post='2174527']
One day that story will come out Russ and you will be enemy number one, I feel privileged to already know but my lips are sealed
[/quote]

Ha ha!

Good enough for "<name removed>" and "<name removed>", then I'm sure it's good enough for you.

That told me huh?



Anyway, back to AC - I was thinking about finishes. I seem to recall JC making a big point about having a top guy shooting his nitro - ex Fender even? or maybe a top car guy? - my mind forgets. Anyway, seems that with the move of manufacturing locations, the build process and the fact he is now doing his own finishes, the AC brand is not what it once was. I know this is a bit of a sweeping statement but I can wager there will be a "pre move" era premium come out of this incident if there is an impact on the business!

Edited August 14, 2013 by EBS_freak

[stingrayPete1977]

Pre TBT?

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1376483747' post='2174561']
Pre TBT?
[/quote]

Indeed!

[charic]

[JTUK]

I think it is ok to have a say about a product if that product came straight out of the makers showroom.
The fact that it may have been a demo bass should not really come into it, as far as I can see.

It is a walking advert for the product, and at shows, I would expect it to get seen and heard by a LOT of people ..not least a lot of people with influence in the industry..

I just don't get how you can let anything like that pass off as a premium product with your name on it.

I only know what I have read..and seen, on here, but that sounds like a massive hole in foot job to me..???


Demo bass... and discount price is one thing... but people need to know that and company records should record that.
I understand how hard that would be one one man bands...!!!! but I also think it is very hard to get a premo reputation
and how easy it is to loose it.
Virul is just a few clicks away, these days...

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1376484244' post='2174581']
I think it is ok to have a say about a product if that product came straight out of the makers showroom.
The fact that it may have been a demo bass should not really come into it, as far as I can see.

It is a walking advert for the product, and at shows, I would expect it to get seen and heard by a LOT of people ..not least a lot of people with influence in the industry..

I just don't get how you can let anything like that pass off as a premium product with your name on it.

I only know what I have read..and seen, on here, but that sounds like a massive hole in foot job to me..???


Demo bass... and discount price is one thing... but people need to know that and company records should record that.
I understand how hard that would be one one man bands...!!!! but I also think it is very hard to get a premo reputation
and how easy it is to loose it.
Virul is just a few clicks away, these days...
[/quote]

Indeed. One of my fave luthiers has a bass that I am desperate that he sell to me. He won't.

Why?

Well, it's his show bass.

And?

Well... it's built out of a load of sh1tty offcuts that have been glued together and then shaped and sprayed.

I don't care. I just want to play it!

Well... if that bass was ever sold, and it was ever refinished and it was seen that it was made with a load of offcuts, it would bring into question every other bass he had ever made. He's confident that any other bass could be refinished.... but he won't let this show bass out for this very reason, despite having been offered thousands for it by numerous people.

And that's defending your brand.

Edited August 14, 2013 by EBS_freak

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1376455868' post='2174123']
... My beliefs are immaterial ...
[/quote]
In that case you might have put less time and effort into explaining your beliefs to us.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1376484806' post='2174602']
In that case you might have put less time and effort into explaining your beliefs to us.
[/quote]

Pah ha!

[Dingus]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1376484806' post='2174602']
In that case you might have put less time and effort into explaining your beliefs to us.
[/quote]

I don't explain my beliefs . I can't explain them . I don't have any . Your snide remarks only make you look desperate .

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1376481343' post='2174475']


People get loyal to a brand and knowing a the builder personally will definitely put a skew on how you feel about something like this. Lets try and stay objective please
[/quote]

I've had some basses from builders I know. Both custom orders. Both with issues. Never again.
Try before you buy, and buy the one you tried. That's the only guarantee that what you'll get is what you want.

And I don't really feel brand loyalty with regard to basses. If I try it and like it, I'll buy it, regardless of whose scribble is on the headstock.

I do find that Nike shoes fit me better than most, though.

[Dingus]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1376482430' post='2174514']
I had a similar experience with a (very popular) builder that was less than rosy. I chose not to make it public on this forum (or any other forum as it happens) as I knew the fanbois would defend to the max. I was close to doing so though - why? I was heavily out of pocket, left with a pos and it was looking like I was not going to get any resolution to the situation. The luthier was not listening and was questioning my ability of knowing anything about the constuction of instruments and how they should or shouldn't be.

I managed to get the situation resolved and get a replacement... albeit only when a third party got involved. Pretty sad that luthiers tend to be highly defensive of their work, reply on the uber offensive and basically treat their customers as dick heads. The only thing that makes the experience a bit sweeter is that I never put in my 4k order with said luthier and never had to deal with the possibility of beind lumbered with a substandard pos.

I can fully sympathise with the OP on TB. I'm still surprised at JC... I read it back again today and my jaw is still on the floor. I love Allevas (well, that green racing stripe one at least)... but I wouldn't have the confidence to order direct now. I would only buy an instrument off the shelf that I could inspect... which is a great shame because an instrument like that, you should have the confidence to spec it up and now that it's going to arrive absolutely bang on. This whole thing about it being a discounted show instrument stinks. If I was at a show and saw that excuse of a bass, I would be walking anyway. I can't see JC having done himself any sort of favour here whatsoever.

Just an all round sad state of affairs.
[/quote]

I have also had comparable situations with big -name builders , and resolved them in each case with some satisfaction for myself ( and in certain cases spectaculaly good results in the end ) and without going public with my grievances . It would have been counter-productive to do so . No doubt if I said who these builders were and what their shortcoming were we could have an orgy of " That's disgraceful , and I would never spend that much on an xxxx or an xxxxxxxx " threads and people could spout of at lenghth about how they were unlikely to ever spend x amount on any bass but if they ever did they would never buy one of them and instead would probably get x British luthier tio build them one just like whatever because it would probably be better value and better quality , but anyway it all just makes them even happier with the bass they got for £300 from Tescos .

[Conan]

[quote name='pierreganseman' timestamp='1376478493' post='2174396']Alleva copollo has nothing to prove anymore as he managed to make one of the best "fender copy"

Just leave the guy alone...
[/quote]

Bizarre If you had gone through the experience that this Addison guy appears to have suffered, would you want everyone to leave the alleged perpetrator alone?

As for AC having nothing to prove, I beg to differ. He has to prove that this is a one-off aberration, maybe just a breakdown in communications, and not the start of a slide in standards. Many members on here aspire towards his basses and would probably like to be kept in the loop if it were thought that he was losing his touch. Don't you think?

The fact that his basses are Fender clones is neither here nor there. It is to do with reputations and customer service. Surely people are entitled to comment on these things?

Edited August 14, 2013 by Conan

[Dingus]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1376461002' post='2174137']
So if I put up a '62 Jazz on eBay, which turned out not to be a '62 Jazz at all but it did look a lot like one, but I'd advertised it as a '62 Jazz and someone had given me £20,000 for it, would it be their fault that they'd got saddled with a bass that wasn't what they thought it was?

I'd have the plausible deniability - I could say I didn't realise it was fake and I sold it in good faith and as far as I'm concerned it's now the buyer's problem. Is that good enough? Would you be keen to support me with your odd brand of objective pseudo-legal responses?
[/quote]


The scenario you describe is in no way a parrallel of the one with this AC bass . I could explain why if you like - my perculiar pseudo-legal training makes me an relative expert in such matters - but you probably wouldn't be sufficiently interested . Suffice to say , the 62 Jazz in your hypothesis is not what it has been represented as , so the seller has to take responsibility for that . He states with confidence it's a 62 Jazz and it isn't , so he is liable . If he had said it [u][i]might[/i][/u] be a 62 Jazz for these reasons , but you buy at your own risk , that would be a different matter entirely .

[charic]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1376487599' post='2174714']
The fact that his basses are Fender clones is neither here nor there.
[/quote]

I think it makes one difference, the amount of competition. There's a lot of people out there making fender clones afterall

[Conan]

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1376488750' post='2174744']
I think it makes one difference, the amount of competition. There's a lot of people out there making fender clones afterall
[/quote]

Agreed. And they are exactly the companies that stand to benefit from this situation [b][i]if[/i][/b] potential buyers shy away from AC.

[chris_b]

Why would anyone shy away from AC? They are great basses.

The only difference between last week and this week is that anyone buying a bass on the internet should be demanding a dozen photos of the current condition before they complete the deal.

[Dingus]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1376500432' post='2175039']
Why would anyone shy away from AC? They are great basses.

The only difference between last week and this week is that anyone buying a bass on the internet should be demanding a dozen photos of the current condition before they complete the deal.
[/quote]

+1 on that , Chris . I would be even more direct than that . If I was in the market for an AC bass I would be on the phone to Jimmy Coppollo and discussing my concerns in the wake of this fiasco . I strongly suspect he would be glad to have the chance to tell his side of the story and would be ready to offer some extra assurances that his work is up to scratch .

Edited August 14, 2013 by Dingus

[Muzz]

Because he's proven himself to be the sort of supplier who will respond with aggression and veiled accusations of lies and fabrications by the buyer, rather than just deal with the problem.

Not someone I'd want to spend £300 with, much less £3000.

[E sharp]

Was saving up for my dream Status and probably looking close to 3k . Although this thread is only about A.C. , it surely must make anyone think long and hard about a new build . Certainly made me think , and I'm not even questioning Rob's work .

[Dingus]

[quote name='E sharp' timestamp='1376505687' post='2175185']
Was saving up for my dream Status and probably looking close to 3k . Although this thread is only about A.C. , it surely must make anyone think long and hard about a new build . Certainly made me think , and I'm not even questioning Rob's work .
[/quote]

I had a custom - order Status bass and in my experience Rob and Dawn are two of the most decent and honest people you will ever meet in this business . You can place an order with them with the knowledge that they won't be happy until you're completly happy with the bass you get from them , and they will be there to help with any future problems you have with it . I would say buying a Status is a [u]very [/u]low risk in comparison to many other builders .

[Ghosts Over Japan]

and in one very sly swoop he has lost a LOT of trust and that will lead to a HUGE loss in custom.